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@Lift - I voted for agent in #65, not Ixam

@ZFR - didn't see your message before the last post, thank you, I was beginning to doubt myself

So here is where I am, I don't see myself voting bler, scene, muddy, or Ixam.
I would likely only vote for ZFR, Hyper, and flub (for some unknown reason) in a pinch.
Which by POE leaves agent, Joe, P1na, and SPF.

@Hyper - You said more than 5 words today and I didn't see any issue with it.

Right now, I'm leaving my vote on agent, I'd still like to hear more.

@P1na - Do you have any top suspects?
@SPF - Same questions, any top suspects?
@joe - it's not clear to me why your in the bottom group (I'll revisit this the next time I'm back)
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muddysneakers: Joe why the vote on SPF?
ZFR same question. Is it due to a metaread I'm not privy to?
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ZFR: I voted because yes, his play now felt more like his play in Poppy's game where he was scum than in my game where he was Town.
I kept my vote because of his reaction. His "Maybe my idle speculation was more on the mark than I expected?" and... nothing? No vote on me? No questioning further?
Haha, I was waiting to see what your reaction was. By this point I wasn't sure if you were going to address it or were just hoping I'd forget all about it. If it makes you happier I'll happily vote ZfR.
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cristigale: @SPF - Same questions, any top suspects?
ZFR feels off so far, slammed a vote on me the moment I speculated about his reason for the random.org habit.
Scene feels off, more like he did in 55 than in 54.
I feel like Joe is trying too hard, but it's early days in the game (for him).
I'm having to constantly remind myself that Flub isn't an innocent child in this game.
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cristigale: @Lift - I voted for agent in #65, not Ixam
So you did. Sorry for the mistake.

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Noon has passed and is followed by a bleak afternoon. A steady wind blows outside and howls eerily in the chimney. Between the discussions you cast worried looks at the church tower, from time to time. How much time is left until they strike the Decision Bell? How are you supposed to decide if you don't know anything? The minutes tick by and turn into hours and the grey clouds are starting to rain.

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Corrected vote count:

scene 1 - bler (91)
agent 1 - cristi (65)
ZFR 2 - P1na (19), SirP (122)
P1na 1 - HSL (24)
SirP 2 - ZFR (83), Joe (106)
bler 1 - scene (96)
cristi 1 - muddy (30)

not voting: agent, Ixam, flubb
ZFR and SirP are leading at L-5
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P1na: - I've made my dislike of comparisons to previous games known, you guys can point at each other all you want using that as base but I won't take part on it. I refuse to read previous games.
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ZFR: I on the other hand believe meta-reads are not only okay, they're an essential part of a game of this sort.
I know many people feel that way, yes. Which is precisely why I don't play mafia often, as I find no joy in that kind of witchhunt (see what I did there? Eh? EH?). As I said, you guys are free to accuse each other based on meta reads, but I want to make clear upfront why I won't do so before any accusations take place.

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P1na: - Bler, I really don't enjoy your walls of text, but you do explain several mechanics I wouldn't have known otherwise (interesting stuff about questions, for example) so you get a pass.
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agentcarr16: Is that a pass on his walls of text or a pass on his alignment? One is fundamentally concerning, the other is tangentially concerning.

My vote waits on clarification regarding "randwolf."
I meant his posts are long, which is a pain to read, but they seem to have interesting content, so they're worth reading. As in, he wants people to "play properly", which should be town behaviour... or simple "stop having fun mafia guy" who just wants a decent challenge. I'm leaning towards the first.

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P1na: [...] I don't like HSL voting for me, specially so as I never saw a reason for it. [...]
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HypersomniacLive: Is there a case/situation/scenario where you would like my (anyone's?) vote based on reasons given?
Of course. I mean, there's always going to be people who dislike me (not everyone can have objectively good taste) but I'd at least like to know why. It's the same reason I always ask police officers why they "randomly" stopped me IRL, you'd be surprised at the answers you get to that.

But jokes aside, yes, if I'm being lynched, I want a reason. Even if that's only useful for my next game. Simply voting for me for no reason isn't behaviour I approve of. Besides, your refusal to accept your death disturbs me.

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cristigale: @P1na - Do you have any top suspects?
That is the question, is it not? I should come up with someone more serious than odd ZFR. Personal vendettas aside, HSL posts are rather short for my taste. Flubbucket's posts also show a general lack of content, although I'm not exactly the one to start throwing rocks.

I think I'd go for one of the two at the moment, should I see people find deeper reasons for either. Yet neither has votes, and unvoting ZFR would currently lynch SPF, which is quite the responsibility. I need to think more, and by that I generally mean I need to read more of other's reads and latch myself to what sounds... rightest.
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P1na: I refuse to read previous games
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P1na: I want a reason. Even if that's only useful for my next game.
Hehehe.

Seriously though, to each their own. I can totally understand why some people don't like previous game metareads and respect that.
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bler144: 1. FTFY
2. Ohhh. Well...I confess I'm still not a fan but I can see where it made sense to you. Which is...something.
3. To be fair to you, it's non-gog lingo so it was a bit lazy of me to use in a game where cristi's probably the only player who would be familiar with that type of short-hand. I should probably be more cognizant of who is playing.

It just means that, for the standards of judging RVS, voting for a non-player (moreso with a nonsensical reason) is more likely than random to be non-town, for similar reasons as voting randomly. Could give a lecture but see response to SPF above.

Could town do the same? Sure. The same as town could use random.org to vote. Or a townie could flip out and claim to be wolf (I've seen it). But all things being equal, it's cover-seeking behavior vs. making an in-game play risking attention from someone actually in the game.

If I'd understood that you were making a reference to an interaction in the sign-up thread, I probably would have voted HSL instead of the two of you, but you voting wyrm at all still would have merited an eyebrow.
Thanks for the clarification. :thumbsup:

I disagree with your eyebrow-raising, but I think it's town.

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bler144: "That is suspicious because xyz! Why did you do that?" is questioning ZFR. Great. Nice work.
"I find that suspicious!" is at least making a statement you can be held to later if it's relevant. Of some value.
While technically, yes, you have "asked a question" in that line, you're not questioning ZFR, at best you are making a fuzzy bid to throw shade without actually having to commit to anything.

So, no, no points for that even if ZFR were to flip non-town later on.

...

As for the cop thing, a) your proposition is at best a maybe, because it depends on what info the cop has relative to the gamestate, which could range from awesome to literally nothing of use, and b) it sounds awesome in principal, but the average townie has to try and observe and sort all the players at the table for the entirety of the game and is more likely to miss breadcrumbing unless it's super clear. Maf, again, are typically cop-hunting, and have a smaller array of players to sort. They also know some info on what is true and what is not. So breadcrumbs that are clear and unambiguous raise the cop's risk profile significantly.

So yes, the IDEAL is that the cop breadcrumbs info that will help solve the game after they're gone. The rub is doing it in a way that's clear enough to be useful to town while subtle enough that maf won't see it and end them sooner. And again, there's no standard cop, so why are you wasting text on this?

If you're town, please pull it together. If not, swell.

vote scene
Hmmm...

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HypersomniacLive: Not sure I follow on the getting a pass part. Clarify?
That's two people calling for clarification now.

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supplementscene: Right so this is the second lie about me you've posted in only 2 pages. I replied to Flub on Post 63. I didn't reply to Flub's mocking joke he asked earlier, no. You're analysis of Scene, SPF, P1na and HSL is inconsistent and you've just tried to explain away why you're analysis has no consistency. Well no, you don't get a pass for that.

I'm beginning to think your either Mafia/Witch possibly panicking that you only have 1 buddy or more likely that you're the Neutral Lyncher and I'm your enemy. And maybe that's why Lift warned me not to reveal. Maybe he mistakenly thought I knew I was the enemy to the Neutral Lyncher. That's the only thing that makes sense in his warning to me, not to reveal roles. However perhaps you're overzealous townee, I can see that possibly but I have a suggestion after...:

VOTE Bler144
Please please tell me you posted that without refreshing.

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bler144: Parity Cop please compare Scene and Bler144. If both are the same, please stay quiet for now at least. If we are different lynch Bler144 because I guarantee he will either be Neutral Lyncher or Scum. If he's not you can assume I'm obviously Scum so lynch me next round. But I guarantee this will not happen. I think I've clarified I'm definitely not Neutral, because I'll be lynched and lose if Bler144 is town or Scum. If Bler144 is town this almost confirms 2 town players. Unless we are in fact both Scum, or both Neutral, playing a VERY risky game.
Arghhh...

No no no no no.

It's odd how this could take up the next three days of cop-time and have no result if scum get lucky. /s

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supplementscene: Why would you want me to stop confirming whether you and I or on the same or differing teams? The Parity Cop get's to find out if we're on the same team or if you are in fact Neutral Lyncher or Scum. It doesn't matter if it happens over 1 or 2 nights. If we're on the same team he stays in the game hidden and if you're not on my team you're proven to be Scum. It's a win-win for town.

No suggesting town tactics for roleplayers isn't none town, it's called teamwork, which is very much what Town need to do to win. Why would a parity Cop not want to investigate the 2 most vocal and opposed players in the game thus far? It makes perfect sense.

Being condescending and arrogant seems to be your way of deflected logical criticism. I wonder why......perhaps you have something to hide.
Not happy with this at all.

Vote supplementscene

Except...

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JoeSapphire: Argh!

Vote Supplementscene.

Worked out well for me last game...
????

1. You didn't bold your vote,
2. RVS is over. It looks a lot like you're jumping on the train you think is most likely to pull out of the station.

That's scummy as heck.

Unvote supplementscene

But wait, there's more!

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supplementscene: This seems like a huge deflection because you don't want to be investigated alongside myself to expose our alignments. Yet if you were Town it would almost certainly confirm you.

You've listed a list of spurious reasons why I'm 'wrong' in the same condescending manner. But if I am wrong, please test me alongside you and if you get lynched first and you're town, I'll get lynched. I have nothing to fear in being lynched

And another post and yet another lie, I have never claimed to not have a PR or otherwise.
Heh.

So many inaccurate assumptions and conclusions in here.

If bler is town, he wants the Parity Cop to not be manipulated. If you have nothing to fear in being lynched, you're not town. Also, you've definitely soft-claimed.

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JoeSapphire: <snip>

Congratulate me at endgame.

Goodnight. See you in three days.
Yuck. And you still haven't voted.

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JoeSapphire: vote SirPrimalform

pew pew!

(because I think he's on bler's team: Thanks for asking.)
So which are you more certain is scum?

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cristigale: Right now, I'm leaving my vote on agent, I'd still like to hear more.
Cheers.

------------------------------

I'm extremely unhappy with both JoeSapphire and supplementscene. JoeSapphire is lurking hard, fake-voting, and generally behaving anti-town. Supplementscene is either scum or not listening. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and...

Vote supplementscene

You're attempting to control PRs, you're throwing excessive amounts of shade, you keep claiming you're happy to be lynched, and you keep ignoring your own advice.
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P1na: I want a reason. Even if that's only useful for my next game.
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ZFR: Hehehe.

Seriously though, to each their own. I can totally understand why some people don't like previous game metareads and respect that.
For the record, I meant that as "even if it's only as a learning opportunity I can only put in practice the next time". I may be just a casual Mafia gamer and I don't intend to learn its deepest mechanics, but I do try to get the basics down.

You may notice I didn't declare my will to protect others or claimed to be a vanilla townie this game.
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supplementscene: .................

I think I may change to Flub simply because he's a pokerface player. As confirmed town he plays scummy. As Scum he doesn't give any tells other than somewhat irrelevant posting, which is also a sympton of his Town game. As Town he generally doesn't come across as more helpful than as Scum.
I agree 100,000%.

Lynch me.

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bler144: ............
2. I mean, it sounds good, but it's the flub dilemma in a nutshell. There's no guarantee that penalizing ......

.........
I charge extra for "in a nutshell" but the dilemma is still free.

Heh.......penal. =D

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bler144: .............

FWIW, you also didn't respond to flub's direct question of you as far as I observed.

.............
Yes he did. Post #63


Vote: JoeSapphire


Why?? Because he's suspiciously delicious.
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P1na: unvoting ZFR would currently lynch SPF
I don't think that's the case.
Dammit. Didn't refresh. Pot calling the kettle black and all that.

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P1na: I meant his posts are long, which is a pain to read, but they seem to have interesting content, so they're worth reading. As in, he wants people to "play properly", which should be town behaviour... or simple "stop having fun mafia guy" who just wants a decent challenge. I'm leaning towards the first.
Thanks for the clarification.

Also, misquoted the below.

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supplementscene: Parity Cop please compare Scene and Bler144. If both are the same, please stay quiet for now at least. If we are different lynch Bler144 because I guarantee he will either be Neutral Lyncher or Scum. If he's not you can assume I'm obviously Scum so lynch me next round. But I guarantee this will not happen. I think I've clarified I'm definitely not Neutral, because I'll be lynched and lose if Bler144 is town or Scum. If Bler144 is town this almost confirms 2 town players. Unless we are in fact both Scum, or both Neutral, playing a VERY risky game.
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agentcarr16: Arghhh...

No no no no no.

It's odd how this could take up the next three days of cop-time and have no result if scum get lucky. /s
I hate it when I misquote.

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flubbucket: <snip>
Have I ever told you I love your style?





...





...





...





If I ever do, lynch me 'cuz I'm lying.
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P1na: ...............
Flubbucket's posts also show a general lack of content,
...............
Are you flirting with me??


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agentcarr16: ...................
Have I ever told you I love your style?

...

...

...

If I ever do, lynch me 'cuz I'm lying.
I may have style, but I have no class.
I've got time on my hands, so might as well do reads. It's never too early to do reads.

Scale of 1-7, with 1 being scum and 7 being town. 4 is neutral.

supplementscene: 2

Scummy or neutral. If he's town, he's either badly confused or totally deluded, neither of which are good for town. No offense intended, I enjoy playing with a few stray cannonballs, it makes things more interesting.

Ixamyakxim: 5

Leaning town, but I don't much like his non-vote for whoever votes muddysneakers. It looks like he's doing things, but he's actually not. Also, lurky-lurky. Now that I think about it, I don't know why I think he's town. Gut, I guess, which is a bad reason. Perhaps should be a 4.

ZFR: 4

Strong unsure. He's managed to post frequently without posting much of substance. His current vote is publicly based on a gut feeling about previous games, which I don't like.

JoeSapphire: 3

Leaning scum. Fake voting, para-voting*, and lurking.

* Newly coined phrase. Defined as voting for someone that isn't your top scum pick.
I will totally remember this phrase and use it again. /s

muddysneakers: 3

Leaning towards inexperienced scum. Voting no-lynch is eternally suspicious, but it's arguably natural for inexperienced players. Voting no-lynch is voting no-information which is voting for scum. Simply unvoting is a better way to go if you don't want to lynch someone in particular. I'd like to see more participation and a real vote based on reads.

flubbucket: 6

Simply stylish.

P1na: 4

Unclear. I like your stance on meta-reads, especially since I've been out of the loop for so long. Yet your top scum reads are based on meta-reads? I don't think HSL and flubbucket can possibly be considered the worst for content.

SirPrimalform: 5

Leaning town. Seems to be acting consistently in a town-aligned manner.

HypersomniacLive: 4

Unsure. Seems to be keeping clean and not engaging much.

bler144: 5

Leaning town. He's pushing hard on a lot of people, which will provide valuable information in the later game. I don't know that I like who he's pushing, but at least he's trying. Has easily provided the most content of anyone in the game, which merits consideration.

cristigale: 5

Leaning town. But I always read you as town.


Particularly want to see more content from HypersomniacLive, muddysneakers, and ZFR. Comfortable voting for supplementscene, with JoeSapphire as my second strongest scum read.
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agentcarr16: Strong unsure. He's managed to post frequently without posting much of substance. His current vote is publicly based on a gut feeling about previous games, which I don't like.
Publicly then: my initial vote was based on on a gut feeling about previous games. My current vote is based on his reaction.
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agentcarr16: Leaning towards inexperienced scum. Voting no-lynch is eternally suspicious, but it's arguably natural for inexperienced players. Voting no-lynch is voting no-information which is voting for scum. Simply unvoting is a better way to go if you don't want to lynch someone in particular. I'd like to see more participation and a real vote based on reads.
You think inexperienced scum would vote no-lynch an leave (he said he won't be available) instead of vote a townie and leave?
I see this more as inexperienced town. With Lifts new lynch rules, I can see a newbie making that mistake (voting no-lynch).