Why only harder?


Confrontation isn't the way to catch scum!trentonlf in early game.


Not sure how to read this, do you think there's more than me appearing to coach him and give him outs, or not?



Says the guy who still voted the Doctor after he had claimed.

I suppose you're not going to ever answer my question from post #648, or at least try to, and just cling onto your theory, or are you?


Curious, how many Days and Nights do you think are left in the game before it's over for town, should they have false-claimed Lovers?



mchack said he'd protect one of them on N3, so, assuming the claim's true, the faction NK had a 50% chance of failing.
I'll go out on a limb and say that gogtrial34987 will state this is the explanation of them being alive, regardless of if the claim's true or not.

I have a couple of comments and thoughts on the claim, and some of their posts, but will refrain until they address Bookwyrm627's post #838. Between the two of them, that might take quite a while.


In the meantime, here's a thought triggered by how mchack explained why he protected trentonlf N1.

- supplementscene claims in post #329.
- First one to comment on for the claim looking like a verbatim PM quote is dedoporno (post #332). He dies N1.
- Second one is Bookwyrm627 (post #349). He's still alive.
- Third one is Vitek (post #350). He's still alive.
- Fourth one is Lifthrasil (post #374). He dies N2.

D1 ends.


I've got a mentally and emotionally taxing family thing early in the morning till around noon, so not sure if I'll be back on later tonight (need to try and sleep early), and when and how much I'll be on tomorrow will depend on how things go in the morning.

Ah. I thought the "I like to keep it tense" remark was in relation to me being some kind of behind-the-scenes (behind-the-Scene?) mastermind.

Can't speak for the rest of you, but I'm pretty much in a holding pattern until Gogtrial and/or Joe arrive to give a full claim.

Sorry all for the long absence. This was mostly real life, but also a little bit deliberate. I actually managed to look in a few times early today, and worked a bit on my reread (still too much to go to draw/share conclusions), but I basically wanted my four remaining suspects to all have had sufficient chance to weigh in and question us before saying anything more. It 'helps' there that Joe's internet situation is so dire. >.<

Can you elaborate what about it makes your head hurt?

Something I discussed with Joe early on was that Mafia gets exactly the same amount of power in 7T vs 5T, and in 2T vs 0T, while in both cases town gets an additional power. Since we might be in the 0T scenario, could we just be a reduced "additional power"? Our day-chat is a bit better for town than the regular night-chat which Masons get according to the setup document.
Best case to hope for is that mafia also received some limitation on its powers - but eh, best not to think we'll be so lucky.

I think we already revealed it all last night. I'm Jorji Costava, Town Sibling. My power is to have day-chat with my big brother, Joe, who I know to be Town. If one of us dies, so does the other. This also goes for mod-kills. (That bit I think is new; FWIW, this was not stated in the initial PM, but in the clarification ZFR gave in the opening post in the QT.) My win condition is identical to what ZFR gave as the example in post1.
I'm interested what of the above you didn't trust enough from our reveal yesterday that you were stalled completely on getting it confirmed again. (I hope you at least took this time for rereads?)

I always like it when you say "Heh". It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy, and vaguely convinced that I said something smart, even if half the time I can't quite point to what that smart thing could've been.

For whatever it's worth, I never have any trouble with this being "awkward", and from the surface of it, neither does HSL. I like your tack on seeing who still cares about what, though. Given that by my count, you got exactly zero questions dragged up so far, what does that tell you?

Let's indeed take SPF off the table, so you're only looking at Bookwyrm, HSL and trent. Now, gun to your head, imagining we're five minutes away from EoD in a lylo situation, name one mafia, one town?
@Bookwyrm, @HSL, @trent: same question for you for the other three?
(Or if you want to make a case for why SPF should be on the table as mafia after all, I'm still listening.)
If I'm right, and I don't see how I can't be, each of the two townies amongst you has a 67% chance of correctly hitting mafia.

I've been plain mason once before in #52 (replacing Sage), and there I also distanced from ZFR and mchack (though to be accurate, it mostly was mchack and ZFR who basically won the game through successful distancing, and I just faffed about in the margins a bit). I don't recall having been in any other game with masons (nor observed one), so I just played this based on that experience and general gut feeling. I discussed the basic concept a bit with Joe on D1, but that didn't go beyond "let's keep some distance so scum won't recognize us as possible masons" (paraphrased). He never brought up "usual" mason strategy.

I think you're referring to Joe's "guess who?" from #746 followed by "That's right it's gogtrial" in #748? That's because I'd given a whopper of a hint about that reveal coming up, right before in #745: "Well, the twist in this game hadn't been revealed yet, so I should be keeping it in mind as an option. But, eh, that'll have run its course now. Go ahead, bro!" (Joe had asked for me to put in something for him to point to in case I had to suddenly disappear due to real life (which was a serious risk at that point in time) and couldn't immediately confirm his claim.)
Neither of us would've believed that anyone could've figured out the connection before that.

I never got a chance to reply to this last night; I have dreams each night, but it's all described in a few words / phrases; nothing about if I can remember them well. All the phrases seem related to Baldur's Gate, almost certainly due to my avatar.

Iirc the why was the way he voted for scene at the end of D1; mafia had a very strong benefit for going to nolynch, and Bookwyrm made it quite possible that lynch would still be achieved.
I haven't been able to immediately find who said it, in which context. Will be looking for this after posting this, since I've already spent quite too long on writing.

*eyes you very hard*
*considers how much of a departure from the C9++ setup this would be*
Nah...

Out of interest, if we're not lovers, do you honestly believe that I would've gone along with this? I think I was as universally townread as Vitek, trent and you, and think that if I was mafia, I could easily have coasted along to at least the final three.
Additionally, if you don't believe we're lovers, do you also not believe that we have day-chat? Even with Joe's absence, that's still something we should be able to prove somehow before EoD.

mchack also realized (and stated publicly; interesting that you missed this) that they have a roleblocker, which should've been able to block him protecting us, meaning that mafia should've had a 100% chance of killing us both.

Would I have stated this before you brought it up? Will I now? Who knows? (Well you do, apparently.)
I figure there's a couple of possible reasons for mafia to have decided to keep us alive last night. Not wanting to risk that remaining PR being another doctor? Both being town-read by both me and Joe, so figuring we'd give them two votes to help them mislynch all y'all? Pure WIFOM?
(And I have little doubt you can think of several more reasons that you'll question me about not mentioning yet.) *g*


At the beginning of this wall post, I stated that I wanted my four remaining suspects to have a chance to question us. What I noticed is that, in order, HSL wanted input on the setup, Bookwyrm asked us a single question, (HSL "Heh"ed me), Vitek extensively questioned things about us but never addressed us directly, trent completely failed to address us in any way and only talked to and about others, and HSL talked a little bit more about us. The trent thing pinged me hard, and reminded me of the way he initially reacted to scene's claim.

Oh, something I've been meaning to ask: Could anyone characterize their impression of the likelihood of Bookwyrm, HSL, trent and Vitek bussing fellow mafia?
I vaguely remember post-game discussions about this for at least one or two of the above, but hoping I can avoid having to look that up myself.

What per se are you wanting us to ask? Y’all have claimed Mason Lovers, is there more info to be given then that? If I didn’t believe y’all’s claim I would be voting one of y’all right now, and if it wasn’t for how you’ve been playing I would probably not believe y’all’s claim.

I can answer for me, and I’m it sure of anyone else, but if I’m mafia I will bus any of my buddies without blinking an eye. As I’ve said in the past I will gladly bus them and then run them over with the bus a few times just for good measure.

The rest of all y'all seem to have doubts still. Which I read - to some degree - as towny, given that they can't know for certain. You, I find very trusting; as if you *know* that our claim is true, and thus can't find anything about it which warrants further investigation / questioning.

Thanks.

That should have read “I’m not sure of anyone else” not “I’m it sure of anyone else”

I am anything but certain y’all’s claim is true, but I choose to believe it. Would you rather we spent this day going over y’all’s claim and debating the merits of it? I’m sure scum would love us to do just that. The only thing I wanted to know about Masons and Lovers is the exact thing HSL asked, and no one has deemed to answer it.

Fair point.

Bookwyrm answered it pretty extensively before you even voiced support for wanting that answer:

I totally missed that post from bookwyrm

Since I didn't quote you for it, and you thus (seemingly?) also missed it in the middle of my #875:

Gun to your head, imagining we're five minutes away from EoD in a lylo situation, name one from Bookwyrm, HSL, Vitek as mafia, one as town? (If you're town, you'll have a 67% chance of correctly hitting mafia.)

This looks to have been mchack in #672:

And with that, I'm off to bed, with a high chance of a 48 hour absence. Even if I manage to peek in shortly tomorrow, I don't expect to be able to do more than to just respond to running matters.
I sincerely hope that even with my absence (and hopefully not too much of Joe's absence), you can all continue to look very closely at which of Bookwyrm/HSL/trent/Vitek would be scum. We can afford a single mislynch, but I'd strongly prefer just hitting scum right away and not getting into a lylo situation (or mylo if me and Joe live until tomorrow).

Town- Vitek, I’ve found him to be one of the townier players all game
Scum- bookwyrm, from a pool of HSL, SirPrimalform, and bookwyrm I don’t see HSL as a mafia buddy with either of them.

Vote count:

HSL - 1: SPF
gogtrial - 1: flub

Not voting - 6: Bookwyrm, gogtrial, HSL, Joe, trent, Vitek

8 players. Takes 5 to lynch.