It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Community
General discussionGOG Mafia #55 - Trouble at Arstotzkan Boot Camp(1211 posts)(1211 posts)
(1211 posts)
Pages:
1
10
20
30
40
44
45
46
47
48
60
70
81
This is my favourite topic
Posted September 30, 2018
mchack - 4: Ixam, flubbucket, Bookwyrm, trent
JoeSapphire - 3: Vitek, HSL, mchack
HypersomniacLive - 1: SPF
Vitek - 1: Joe
Ixam - 1: gogtrial

10 players. 6 to lynch
Posted September 30, 2018
uhm. So everyone fell asleep or something? or paralysed from shock? or simply waiting till the deadline is near enough to say. aah, shame but now it's just too late to look somewhere else, now we just need to lynch mchack. *snort*

So since my top scumpick of today HSL, doesn't seem to roll and I know that my train only leads to mislynch:
I'm fine with trying Joe.
It does make sense when HSL says that probably not every scum was off scenes wagon and from those on scenes wagon D1, Joe is the one that makes most sense to me as bussing his buddy. I still don't think that a scum Joe would clear HSL in any way.
As for vitek and Ixam, I'm quite unsure about both of them. But neither has the potential to help me self-preserve, so I'm going with Joe.

So let's see:

avatar
SirPrimalform: ping
avatar
gogtrial34987: ping
avatar
trentonlf: ping
avatar
Bookwyrm627: ping
avatar
flubbucket: ping
avatar
Ixamyakxim: ping
What do guys you think about Joe, do you believe it possible he's scum? and if so do you think it more or less likely than finding scum in my slot?

(it's just that I want to make sure noone sits on my wagon, saying he he's only there to avoid no-lynch. That's not the case. There is enough time to switch to Joe if you think him scummier. If indeed you think me scum, then go on record with in and vote accordingly... Just so that my potential lynch has worth in finding scum later.
Also if you want my claim then put me to L-1 (and not only 40 mins before deadline please))
Posted September 30, 2018
Interesting. My town reads + Ixam on the one wagon, my scum leans + Vitek on the other.
I wish I could believe it was that simple.
I wish my yesterday hadn't been as fragmented as it was, with today looking not much better.

I have made certain I'll have time from two hours before EoD until EoD, but not certain yet where/when I'll scrounge together the time to analyze recent developments before that. I'll try to snatch a few minutes here and there, but it'll probably be iffy.
avatar
mchack: Also if you want my claim then put me to L-1 (and not only 40 mins before deadline please))
Fair point. Let's do that now so we'll have plenty of time to check for veracity.
vote mchack

(What is your opinion about me letting my vote stay here, with risk of hammer (which if you flip town, means almost certain scum-catch), versus taking it off again so you won't run that risk?)
Post edited September 30, 2018 by gogtrial34987
Posted September 30, 2018
Ah bollocks! double-post! Sorry ZFR!
That's what I get for posting before I'm fully awake...

*refreshes until it hits 11 minutes*
Posted September 30, 2018
avatar
mchack: Also if you want my claim then put me to L-1 (and not only 40 mins before deadline please))
avatar
gogtrial34987: Fair point. Let's do that now so we'll have plenty of time to check for veracity.
vote mchack

(What is your opinion about me letting my vote stay here, with risk of hammer (which if you flip town, means almost certain scum-catch), versus taking it off again so you won't run that risk?)
whatever suits you best.

So my claim is:

Kordon Kallo (Town Doctor)

it also states quite clearly that I cannot self protect and it says nothing about not being able to protect the same person twice in a row, so I'm pretty sure I can do that.
I have protected Trent N1 and Flubbucket N2 (but that N2 action failed somehow (didn't specify why it failed)
Posted September 30, 2018
unvote mchack

Not saying yet that I believe you, but with that claim, I'd prefer to avoid the hammer possibility.
Posted September 30, 2018
avatar
gogtrial34987: Not saying yet that I believe you, but with that claim, I'd prefer to avoid the hammer possibility.
fair enough. also I can vouch for you not editing anything in your doublepost. I've seen the first before the merge.
Posted September 30, 2018
Initial thoughts.
This would fit with your early vote on scene. (TODO: recheck reasoning.)
If your claim is true, we know for certain there's either a SK or a godfather, and possibly both. (TODO: check if anywhere on D3 you expressed an opinion on this.)
It's probably the easiest fakeclaim of them all to make, given that all the knowledge was out there already after scene's fakeclaim.
It's probably the ballsiest fameclaim of them all to make, given that scene chose the same one.
You don't strike me as the ballsy type.
But you might be counting on that.
WIFOM.
You've clearly had enough time to see it coming that you might have to fakeclaim.
It took you seven minutes after my vote to post your claim.
Posted September 30, 2018
I don't think the N2 failure can be through anything other than a roleblocker (modulo the promised twist).
We know for certain there's a scum roleblocker.
Scum of course knows this for even more certain so might have a skewed PoV and consider being roleblocked to just be very likely.
Town has a very low probability for also having a roleblocker.
Hrm. I don't see how this knowledge helps us.
Was there anything in D2 that would've made you a target for roleblock?
Possibly your scene vote.
Still, there were eight choices for scum to block, and six on scene's wagon.
Nine choices for a possible town roleblocker.

No, I don't see any way this line of reasoning leads to conclusions, and I really need to head offline again now. More from me later! (I hope)
Posted September 30, 2018
avatar
gogtrial34987: Initial thoughts.
This would fit with your early vote on scene. (TODO: recheck reasoning.)
-that's why I knew his was fake (no pm copy for sure [there you have it trent - that's how I knew for sure!]) but saying that wouldn't have been that smart now, would it? I'd have been dead after this, but when I realized that it was all pretty much copy and paste from the C9+ document anyway, I could express my knowing his fakeclaim without outing myself. :) I think that was pretty smart of me. you can all applaud me now. :)

avatar
gogtrial34987: If your claim is true, we know for certain there's either a SK or a godfather, and possibly both. (TODO: check if anywhere on D3 you expressed an opinion on this.)
-does it? I personally don't believe there's a SK (twice only 1 kill? unless I protected someone, but at least in N2 I know for sure I wasn't protecting anyone because it failed) so probably godfather yes. why not. didn't think about it much if there's a godfather or not.

avatar
gogtrial34987: It's probably the easiest fakeclaim of them all to make, given that all the knowledge was out there already after scene's fakeclaim.
It's probably the ballsiest fameclaim of them all to make, given that scene chose the same one.
You don't strike me as the ballsy type.
But you might be counting on that.
WIFOM.
You've clearly had enough time to see it coming that you might have to fakeclaim.
I was trying whatever I could, to not get into a position to have to claim, because I knew that I would die then anyway.
But just letting myself be lynched as a Town Doctor is also not my style. Go down kicking and fighting as they say. So there you have it. I told you all, if you really want my claim then put me to L-1. You did, now you have my claim. If you want me dead anyway, so be it. Hope it helps you catch scum.

avatar
gogtrial34987: It took you seven minutes after my vote to post your claim.
that is not true. you have made a post between you putting me L-1 and my claim in which you say you waited 11 minutes (and that didn't merge).
Posted September 30, 2018
It is currently good fake claim (because if scene wasn't CC'ed you'd be qquite sure you won't be either) but it certaily seems better than scene's.

avatar
mchack: I have protected Trent N1...
Why?

avatar
mchack: ... Go down kicking and fighting as they say. ....
Like you did last game? :-)
Posted September 30, 2018
avatar
JoeSapphire: This is what I'm talking about when I say vitek's being negative this game - he says that he's dissatisfied with the way the game is going...
avatar
Vitek: When?
At the beginning of day two you said [interpolated] "I'm not happy that scene didn't get modkilled in the night," - I think it was a weird thing to expect, but maybe you didn't so.
On the first day I pulled you up on saying you were dissatisfied with the Dichotomy of Lynchees. I'd forgotten at that point that you joined the game late.
And today you again said that you weren't particularly happy with either of the biggest wagons - which again I've pointed out and you've addressed the issue. So, thanks for that ;p

That's what I can remember off the top of my head.

avatar
JoeSapphire: [...] However if one of he or Hypersomnia is scum, then I'll go for the one who messed around at the end of day 1 for poor reasons. [...]
avatar
HypersomniacLive: Don't follow, could you elaborate?
yes, poorly worded, sorry. I meant "If by some divine intervention we learn that either SPrimal or Hypersomnia is scum, then I'd be more inclined to think it's Hypersomnia - because of the way he faffed about at the end of day one for reasons that I don't really believe/understand." It's not a particularly useful observation.



avatar
JoeSapphire: [...] I'd forgotten vitek hadn't been with the game from the start, and misunderstood his 2-day comment for a complaint about short deadlines - which shocked me!!
So no, I don't think vitek was lying about that, but his unwillingness to make a move still stands out to me.
avatar
HypersomniacLive:
avatar
JoeSapphire: [...] vote vitek
uncharacteristic start to the game [...]
avatar
HypersomniacLive:
avatar
JoeSapphire: [...] It seems out of character for vitek (but I conveniently forgot his habit of never voting for anyone, so I could be wrong about this too.) [...]
avatar
HypersomniacLive: And yet somehow you think Vitek is the better D3 Lynch? I'd like you to lay it out very clearly.
I can't really lay it out very clearly. I'm not very good at mafia! But it's the stuff I say in these quotes. I expect vitek to be straightforward, calm-voice-of-reason, scathing-sarcasm-in-the-face-of-illogic, and offering-solutions-that-no-one-listens-to. I've seen the sarcasm.

If you're questioning why I'm voting for him at the same time as doubting myself - if I never did anything until I didn't doubt myself I'd never get anything done.

avatar
JoeSapphire: [...] McHack: I keep flip-flopping on what I think of him, but there was a lot that unsettled me recently. Right now it looks like he's the only likely lynch, but that doesn't mean we need to settle for this. [...]

There's something that irritates me here: Vitek says [quoted] "Of thé 2 biggest wagons I would be more inclined to vote mchack And do not want another no-lynch. " ; [interpolated] "Our only options are McHack and Hypersomnia, and I vote McHack (of course, I don't ACTUALLY vote McHack lolololol" [...]
avatar
HypersomniacLive: mchack is at L-2, you seem a tad too eager/anxious to get him to L-1. Why?
Do I? My first quote says that McHack isn't our only option, and that if we want to lynch someone else we should (I should have added "one-two-three-not-me!", but hindsight's a bitch) and the second quote is a dig at vitek for not using his vote, which was irritating me.

avatar
JoeSapphire: [...] I'm also happy to lynch trentonlf(didn't lynch d1), [...] and gogtrial (seems absolutely fine, which makes me nervous). [...]
avatar
HypersomniacLive: You're happy to lynch trentonlf because he didn't lynch D1? Was he the only one? In the same token, you should be happy to lynch me as well, yet you keep on and on how you're not sure about me, and not keane to vote me right now. So, what makes you (more?) certain about trentonlf that you'd be happy to lynch him for the reason you give here?

Also, gogtrial34987 seems absolutely fine, yet you're happy to lynch him because it (or should I say he?) makes you nervous? Do you think that that's sufficient reason to want his lynch Today, if so, why? And are you happy enough to lynch him over others? If so, why?

This was two days ago, in today's post there's no mention of them. Did something change for you, and if so, what?
It was you, vitek, trentonlf and dedoporno - of the four dedoporno died, vitek came back complaining that he didn't get modkilled, trentonlf was immediately all up in the lynch (and played the old "I-won't-vote-based-on-what-the-mod-wrote-in-the-private-message-but-yous-should-all-vote-based-on-whether-or- not-the-mod-decides-to-modkill" contradiction which no-one else cares about). You're the only one who started day two without feeling the need to justify yourself, radically change your position, or suddenly be dead. Which I found more trustworthy.

Regarding gogtrial - we've got to lynch someone, and if he's scum and makes it to the end of the game having hidden behind a facade of I'm-friendly-and-participating-without-being-particularly-threatening, I'd feel like a big idiot. I don't have any answers, and the best way I can find them out is by lynching. I don't know!

as to why I didn't mention gogtrial yesterday - he's got no votes, it didn't look like anybody else was interested, and I had no reason to call for his lynch other than [interpolated] "It might hit scum."
So no, nothing changed except for the deadline looming closer.

avatar
HypersomniacLive: JoeSapphire is another player I thought has a playstyle that works as either alignment, and in his case he'd have to adjust even less things than supplementscene. But it seems that being on the knowing side interferes with the flow of his play.

I've noticed that he isn't doing his read-lists thing with the frequency and dedication he did in game #53 (Vitek did too), but on top of that there's a lot of flip-flopping and wishy-washing while resorting a lot to "interpolating", when he was sticking to what had been posted to present whatever reads and conclusions he had in that game. In which he also had a lot less trouble remembering things about others and what they had said.
It all feels forced this game, as does his goofing around, though it seems to still provide him with enough cover.
Well the last game started in the last few weeks of term, and ran into the holidays; I had lots of free time. Now we're at the beginning of the year and my access to the internet is more limited (recently much more limited). So I don't have so much time to give the game the attention it deserves. In my defence I don't believe that I'm any more wishy-washy and flip-floppy than ever.



- McHack claims doctor. That he protected trent night one and got blocked night two.
It's believable, and the block is compelling detail.
My only problem with it is why didn't you notice "doctor townie" immediately? eh?
Posted September 30, 2018
avatar
Vitek: It is currently good fake claim (because if scene wasn't CC'ed you'd be qquite sure you won't be either) but it certaily seems better than scene's.

avatar
mchack: I have protected Trent N1...
avatar
Vitek: Why?
It's a bit that I'd rather not gotten into, but if I'm going full open then why not this too: basically I had assumed he had a Powerrole by the way he reacted or rather not reacted to scenes fakeclaim. I had thought that dedo (which was actually confirmed by his flip at the end of N1) and others who mostly believed scenes claim was a copy of his pm were probably VT because it looked a bit like their own pm (vanilla townie) whereas people who didn't get the Idea that it should be a copy of the pm were people not having a vt pm (like myself) connected with me reading trent pretty town and that protecting flub was probably what scum would think any doctor would do n1, I thought he was the best chance I had to protect a town powerrole. That this proved to be wrong later on with lift being cop although he also assumed it was a pm copy, is the only reason I even explain this now.
Second night I wasn't so sure anymore about who is scum and who isn't so I went for the one target I was sure was town.
I won't say who I'll protect tonight, but I'll say that everyone is on the table. I can in fact protect the same person twice in a row. If I do remains to be seen (not that it'll matter much anyway, I presume)

[Anyway, for everyone interested, I can post my thoughts back then postgame, because I actually was one of those chewing zfrs ear off by laying down all my thoughts to him in chat. he never said a word, but I think he was pretty impressed my leet combination skillz :D]

avatar
mchack: ... Go down kicking and fighting as they say. ....
avatar
Vitek: Like you did last game? :-)
heh. I was a scum who got copped then. What is there to do, other than lie down and die?
Posted September 30, 2018
avatar
mchack: It's a bit that I'd rather not gotten into, but if I'm going full open then why not this too: basically I had assumed he had a Powerrole by the way he reacted or rather not reacted to scenes fakeclaim. I had thought that dedo (which was actually confirmed by his flip at the end of N1) and others who mostly believed scenes claim was a copy of his pm were probably VT because it looked a bit like their own pm (vanilla townie) whereas people who didn't get the Idea that it should be a copy of the pm were people not having a vt pm (like myself) connected with me reading trent pretty town and that protecting flub was probably what scum would think any doctor would do n1, I thought he was the best chance I had to protect a town powerrole. That this proved to be wrong later on with lift being cop although he also assumed it was a pm copy, is the only reason I even explain this now.
trent doesn't talk private messages! He says (interpolated) "It's only slightly-less-scummy than basing a lynch on whether-or-not-someone-got-modkilled!"

Surely McHack's in a position to know this already?
Posted September 30, 2018
avatar
JoeSapphire: My only problem with it is why didn't you notice "doctor townie" immediately? eh?
for the umpteenth time: I was at work on phone and I had neither the time nor the equipment to crosscheck with my own pm or read closely (only skimmed the thread on small phone). All I thought was: We need another lynch and then I can protect him at night. It's going to be a glorious town win win situation :D
only at night when I came home from work and read all the posts and crosschecked with my own pm, did it dawn on me that scene didn't need protection but was a liar :/ too late to do anything about it back then, but I did as soon as I could.

avatar
JoeSapphire: trent doesn't talk private messages! He says (interpolated) "It's only slightly-less-scummy than basing a lynch on whether-or-not-someone-got-modkilled!"

Surely McHack's in a position to know this already?
I never said that trent said anything, I said he didn't get what the problem was with the claim which made dedo worry about trent. It looked for me that it didn't look like a copy paste for trent because his own pm wasn't looking like that at all, whereas dedos was looking pretty similar (since scene obviously crafted his fake by changing the vanilla townie pm)
Not saying it was the smartest of Ideas I had but it was what I based my Idea on that with trent I could be saving a town powerrole. But as I said before, I don't believe it was a correct assumption as shown by lift who actually was a powerrole but reacted much like dedo anyway.
Pages:
1
10
20
30
40
44
45
46
47
48
60
70
81
This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG Mafia #55 - Trouble at Arstotzkan Boot Camp(1211 posts)(1211 posts)
(1211 posts)