Random scene observations:
SS voted SPF right after HSL did at the last minutes of D1 while ahving no previous history of suspecting SPF (in fact said he is quite townee earlier). --> very big amount of town points for SPF no mafia goon should ever be trying to redirect lynch to their buddy from themselves

I mentioned at the start of D2 that mchack will be quite scummy if scene flips town and scene felt the need to tell me he doesn't find mchack scummy. --> scum points for mchack? but I am reading him quite towny otherwise and his behaviour is consistent and makes sense so I am not convinced

Before voting SPF scene voted me at the end of D1 as second biggest wagons --> make of it what you want. ;-)

Scene tried to push Dessimu several times and also mentioned Joe often but there he actually never pursued him other than slightly mention him. --> town points for Dess/Ix, null for Joe I guess?
Scene noted how Joe was on his wagon with RVS vote. After I asked about his read on Joe he said he suppose he is scummy and would lynch him. --> not sure could be seen as attempt to shift attention elsewhere but also as him asking buddy to get off his wagon - I think I see it a bit more as the latter

Argued with gogtrial quite a bit D1 --> Mild town points for gogtrial.
Gogtrial, followed by Lift, dedo, SPF and flub was also first serious vote on scene's D1 wagon and second on D2 one --> another bunch of town points.
The D1 vote by gogtrial was for originally for ignoring questions to get attention.
Vote by trent D1 was for scene's junping on Poppy as easiest lynch.
SPF didn't explain when he voted but tated before he would support that lynch.

Scene voted Poppy on basis of her having some votes already and not being him --> mild dose of town points for Poppy (there are 2 more places with town points for Poppy but let's not turn it into defense:-))


So:
SPF much more towny, Dess/Ix more towny, gogtrial a bit more
Joe a bit more scummy. HSL slightly scummy for his SPF vote I suppose?

Joe mailed me to tell me that HR asked him not to play mafia at work.
He won't be available till tomorrow.

Asked me to post this here.

I like this post - like a lot. Three people actually either mentioned wanting to or actually voted for Primal too on Day One when the scene wagon was building.

Two of them ended up on the scene wagon immediately at the start of Day 2 - scum trying to clean up by lynching one of their own when they knew the lynch was inevitable?

The three were trent (to a lesser extent) and then mchack and HSL.

Vote mchack

Post 496 from Lift, I found this interesting: "@Topic Scene-Vitek scumbuddies? ... No, Vitek didn't do anything specific that contradicts the scumbuddies theory. But he didn't do anything to confirm it either. And after the start of D1, Scene also stopped to appear as a buddy to Vitek. Could be that my theory at the start of D1 was wrong. Or it could be that Scene started distancing and the buddying at the start of D1 was just buddying up to a towny. In any case, since Scene has started to expose himself so drastically, everyone is suspecting him. Scum will have no choice but to suspect him too and bus him - so it's no wonder that no further ties between Scene and anyone became apparent."

Seeing as how he really suspected Poppy on Day 1 and Vitek was really reserved after replacing her I think there's a good chance he investigated Vitek. To me this reads as him clearing Vitek. Anyone else see that as well?

I'm trying to rectify him with mchack. I can't see them both as town.


My thoughts as well.

Opening the day with a Vote on supplementscene's inevitable lynch cinches it for me.


Vote: mchack

It is a phrase. More specifically, in this case, it is an admission that I was wrong about this.

Notice how you have parts that are NOT underlined? Parts that are not in the wiki? Parts that you, yourself, admit to be added to the stuff from the wiki? That means it is not a direct copy/paste job.

If Scene had directly copy/pasted the doctor PM from the wiki, we'd have known for sure he was lying on Day 1 because it wouldn't have included any fluff.

Nice smear attempt, though.

Heh. After Post 413, I'd have waited for precisely the kind of thing that happened in Post 438, just in case he was telling the truth. I didn't need to make Day 3 or Day 4 about Scene; I was willing to be patient and wait to see whether Scene slipped up or got killed. If he was telling the truth in 413, then he'd have been mod-killed for 438, meaning he'd be resolved without us spending a lynch (or even much thinking) on him.

Looks like you've got it exactly right.

The bit about "I don't envy the people making choices on what to do with him" kind of sounds like he pities the Mafia for having to decide whether to try and NK the confirmed townie.

His posts implied some things that I don't think he intended. 'Weird' is de facto suspicious, but this may simply be a case of him being off the circuit for so long.

Yes.

I'll show you mine if you show me yours. I'd like something a little more concrete out of you, Vitek. PPE: I like your turn-around time, Vitek! I wish I could have been seeing more scum hunting like 557 from you.

-I'm generally reading Gogtrial as town. She(?) appears to actually be trying to solve the game.
-I don't see SPF as mafia, but I could easily see him being a possible SK. There has been a serious lack of commitment on his part, but if he isn't SK then I'd say he's probably town.
-Ixam is a hard read, due to lack of content. See above for more about this slot.
-I'm reading Mchack as potential mafia. Some of the pushes are in line with bussing/discrediting that I'd expect from a mafia plan.
-I'm reading HSL as potential mafia. During most of D2, he was basically only asking questions, not making observations or committing himself. That suddenly flipped around post 511, where he started going after SPF. I'd say HSL has some good points about SPF's play, which may have been the motivating factor for scum!HSL getting aggressive.

-I don't see HSL and SPF as mafia buddies; if one is mafia, the other very likely isn't. If their recent fighting happens to be M/M, then I hope it ends soon because the theatre is getting a little tedious.

Hm. I like it. Doesn't clear Vitek from possible SK, but I'd say he probably isn't mafia.
Good catch, Trent. I like it a lot! If this was your breadcrumb, Lift, then good job to you too!

ok, re-read D2 to now (omiting the last newest few posts, since time ran out)

Heh. I wondered where scum got the Idea that Lift was a Cop. I put it on pure random luck until I re-read that Episode of back and forth of you and Lift about Scene "knowing" there was a Cop. Lift was the only one who sprung on it. And you definitely remembered that bit. So still quite the leap, but you hit the jackpot with killing lift. congrats, I guess.

just noting how you planted Scenes best defenses. (He won't tell who he protected for Town reasons + he wouldn't do stupid stuff today as scum since his buddies would have prepped him at night)

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huh. Thinking about it, you are right. I made a huge point about how Lift never could be scene's scum buddy after D1. I shouldn't have... I'll remember for future games. Strong Town reads get killed (esp. if they say cop too often).

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right. Bookwyrm starts throwing shade and who follows? it hasn't been mentioned before and bookwyrms post comes 90 posts (almost the whole day) later and now it's a given. Because it's been mentioned so often. heh. chose your mis-lynch target you, have you?

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No Idea either of course, but he might've done me. I was next up after scene (and before you :P) in his scumlist end of D1. He didn't engage me negatively even once all of D2. Make of that what you will.
Edit before posting: Trent suspect vitek been cleared. sure he could've done vitek aswell, we'll see post game. But he had me as higher scum than vitek, so I still assume he did me :P

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Dunno, honestly. I had the worst reads D1. I said so already, but unlike scene and lift (which I both read correctly on D2, though) vitek wasn't really cleared or damned by anything that happened yet. Especially since he hasn't written much D2. Neutral leaning scum, I'd say but not as much as HSL or bookwyrm for me right now.

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I had my (bad) reads on D1 and they were Lift, SPf, ? ... Also quite a few people have mentioned being willing to vote SPf running up to EoD1. And in the short skimming I gave the thread in the few minutes I had pause at work, I haven't really looked hard at the claim, I simply took it at face value and voted the next best thing (my runner up scumpick) to start and alternative wagon to avoid no-lynch or lynching the doc (and 40 minutes could've be enough if enough people were present).

Glad it didn't work though, because scene jumping in there (with HSL who even coached scene to bold his vote) pretty much made SPf town for me (D2) paired with his being on scenes wagon (though to be fair, you (spf) weren't there at claimingtime to hop off, but if you were his buddy, you could have just left us after your hopping off, before the claim, at #302. But you didn't, you re-voted and then left. I doubt, you'd do that as his buddy.)

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More swiftly would've been nice. Maybe they wouldn't have caught lift then (but if it really was that interaction with HSL about cops that gave him away, it would have had to be a very, very short day)
Definitely not longer, else (as bookwyrm put it) someone might've gotten cold feet, and maybe scum would've been able to move us to no-lynch or mis-lynch yet. it's only few scum, if we have one by the balls I say lynch as quickly as possible and don't get sidetracked or wait for it to miraculously sort itself out. scum doesn't usually sort itself out.)

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The reasoning is fine, if he truly believed the claim. Don't know why he would though. He was there, actively. It was not that hard to spot the false claim and HSL usually has pretty good eyes for details like that.
I rather tend to believe he is scum (scene's buddy) and he was nervous if anyone would believe his buddies claim, especially after scene couldn't answer flub's question about being able to self-protect. But when Dedo jumped off believing the claim, and noone hammered even though scene's bad claim. HSL felt safe enough to not bus. (around 20 mins and 17 posts after the claim.)

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A lot more than three people mentioned/voted being fine with an SPf lynch D1.
scene (#363)
hsl (#342)
dedoporno (#338)
mchack (#334)
vitek (#305)
bookwyrm (#241 later quoted a lot)
... (to lazy to go farther back just to prove a point)

And with bookwyrm also more than two were on scene's wagon.

So what exactly are you trying to prove with your alternative facts?

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So my highest scumpick yet is: HSL for his EoD1 behaviour and the aggressiveness with which he tries to make a (townread) SPf look bad.

vote Hypersomniaclive

followed by any of Bookwyrm, Joe or Vitek or Ixam? (all of them mixed bags and none would get my vote yet without further discussion)

Aww. And here I thought I was nearly lock town for you. :(

Damn those companies. First Sage, now Joe.
Don't they understand how important mafia is?

Ts, ts.

I'll be honest. When I first checked I hoped Lift could go with me/Poppy and I'll find something confirming me but I wouldn't dare to point at this (or anything else for that matter) as proof of me being investigated.
Well, it should make it clear he didn't investigated me as scum, but it doesn't show he investigated me as town IMO.

Also there is also very high probability of godfather, right? So I guess it wouldn't matter much anyway.


Sorry, I am shy. You need to buy me drink first. ;-)



There are some parts that are iffy about mchack (his early chain-lynching ideas, vote on SPF, saying he could be cleared by Lift and few others) but none I find definitive right now and I also mostly liked his play and I feel like his reads are changing in natural manner, as would for someone who is not mafia. So I think I am not going to vote him as quickly as Ix and flub did.

Vote Count

HypersomniacLive - 2: SPF, mchack
mchack - 2: xxxyakimxxx, flubbucket

Not voting - 6: Bookwyrm, gogtrial, HSL, Joe, trent, Vitek

10 players. 6 to lynch

Brb, let me talk to Flub real quick.

While you're waiting, why don't you try casting a vote? I hear it is very relaxing.

-yep, that was way before you tried derailing the scene lynch (#497) ,
-you denied the op example pm is copy pasted when it clearly is(#552+#562) (of course the flavour needs to be added afterwards, the flavour can't be already in the setup document can it? but apart from the flavour it is exactly word for word the same as in the setup doc. hence copy paste. not self written from memory. not at all like scene claimed...)
-The whole let scene self resolve by modkill business (#562) so you rather would have put it on the mod to kill scum than lynch scum? for what should the mod kill him? lying as any scum should? faking the pm as any scum should? or for doubleposting like noone should, but I've never seen a modkill for. not even a town scene would have been modkilled for that. lying is part of the game. So no way he would've self-resolved. You just didn't want him lynched. (you hammered in the end though, but only after lift brought you to reason. And now he's dead.)
-also I realized that even though you jumped onto scene right after the claim, you didn't do it before dedo jumped off. Still I give you quite a bit of town credit for it, but I wouldn't put it past you to bus your buddy right after he claimed (making sure not to be the hammer) and you did take as long as you could to hammer him on D2

nothing definitive either (no lock scum like scene was d2) but far from lock town, too.

rectify - sounds nasty.
anyway can't you do it with HSL? the recti business? at least you might find scum there. with me you won't as a matter of fact.

I've already addressed that. My late derailing was because I wasn't here. I'm pretty awesome, but even I have a hard time derailing something if I'm absent.

While I do not deny that PARTS of the pm were copy pasted, I stand by my statement that it isn't a direct copy/paste. If you have to go and insert things then you aren't creating a direct copy/paste.

If your definition is different, then so be it.

Oh come on. Now you're not even trying.

He did self-resolve. He violated his apparent warning in an obvious fashion, and the result he claimed would happen did not occur. He very clearly displayed that he was lying, so we lynched him.

Ah! Curse my eyes! I should have voted for Scene in the two posts between the claim and Dedo's unvote! I might have had as many as 20 minutes, judging by the mod posts with timers! My ancestors will never forgive me!

*snort* And to think that I got some flak for not letting discussion drift on for another RL day or two.