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General discussionGOG Mafia #55 - Trouble at Arstotzkan Boot Camp(1211 posts)(1211 posts)
(1211 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted September 18, 2018
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trentonlf: I also noticed when bookwyrm voted Vitek he left himself an out to remove the vote, made me wonder if it was in case the wagon didn’t gain any traction he could say “after reconsidering things I don’t think Vitek is a good lynch today so let me move my vote to xxxxx”
If it makes you feel better, Supplement is currently my second favorite for being scum. That might lead right into "Wyrm is just bandwagoning whatever seems popular", but I'm willing to take that risk. Not the only risk I'm willing to take, but more on that later.

I could easily go for either SPF or Lift, if the wagons shift in those directions.

Gogtrial and Joe are both not on the menu for me right now.
Posted September 18, 2018
Forgot the rest of the post I was building. -.-

==========

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flubbucket: I appreciate the effort, but you're both still suspects.
Which is as it should be.

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Bookwyrm627: Alas, you are wrong on one count.
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Vitek: OK, so he got you and who correct? Dessimu or Lift?
Dessimu, of course. We had to kick Lift out for being too blood thirsty, though we didn't try to take his weapons.

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dedoporno: Is there anyone who has openly expressed interest in voting flub?? I'd like to meet them.
Define "expressed interest".

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Bookwyrm627: Alas, you are wrong on one count.
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dedoporno: Exactly one? Is it Dessimu?
Sounds good. He and I made such a nice team, way back when.

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SirPrimalform: So do we all need to make sure to reiterate our views in every single post or can we assume that when someone doesn't say something, it means their position hasn't changed?
In jumping from an absurd extreme to another extreme, you missed a possibility.

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JoeSapphire: Mass claim anyone?
Sure. I'm actually the Innocent Child. Vote Flub for being a liar!
Posted September 18, 2018
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trentonlf: I also noticed when bookwyrm voted Vitek he left himself an out to remove the vote, made me wonder if it was in case the wagon didn’t gain any traction he could say “after reconsidering things I don’t think Vitek is a good lynch today so let me move my vote to xxxxx”
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Bookwyrm627: If it makes you feel better, Supplement is currently my second favorite for being scum. That might lead right into "Wyrm is just bandwagoning whatever seems popular", but I'm willing to take that risk. Not the only risk I'm willing to take, but more on that later.

I could easily go for either SPF or Lift, if the wagons shift in those directions.

Gogtrial and Joe are both not on the menu for me right now.
SPF has made my eyebrows go crooked a couple of times so I can see that, but the vibe I’m getting from Lift is town. What exactly are you seeing that’s made him a viable candidate today for you? Is what you said in post 216 the only thing?
Posted September 18, 2018
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trentonlf: SPF has made my eyebrows go crooked a couple of times so I can see that, but the vibe I’m getting from Lift is town. What exactly are you seeing that’s made him a viable candidate today for you? Is what you said in post 216 the only thing?
I feel like I'm seeing more of the "wild boar" aggression that I've come to look for as a possible sign of his scum game. It wasn't there at first in this game, but I feel like I've been seeing more of it as Day 1 has progressed. Lift is pretty much always gung-ho aggressive, so I'm still trying to 'calibrate my scale' of what I'm looking for in his meta.

My 216 comment about Lift being the only schmuck to go for the bait isn't a reason; I wanted to rib him on it (since he did comment on it), but no one truly took such obvious bait (which, ultimately, is as it should be).
Posted September 18, 2018
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trentonlf: SPF has made my eyebrows go crooked a couple of times so I can see that, but the vibe I’m getting from Lift is town. What exactly are you seeing that’s made him a viable candidate today for you? Is what you said in post 216 the only thing?
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Bookwyrm627: I feel like I'm seeing more of the "wild boar" aggression that I've come to look for as a possible sign of his scum game. It wasn't there at first in this game, but I feel like I've been seeing more of it as Day 1 has progressed. Lift is pretty much always gung-ho aggressive, so I'm still trying to 'calibrate my scale' of what I'm looking for in his meta.

My 216 comment about Lift being the only schmuck to go for the bait isn't a reason; I wanted to rib him on it (since he did comment on it), but no one truly took such obvious bait (which, ultimately, is as it should be).
Sorry should have clarified, I meant this comment “Lift, Post 201: This post feels really, really weird. Like, is Lift pre-emptively guarding HSL here, or trying to get Vitek to vote for Lift? Really weird, but I don't know what to make of it. ”
Posted September 18, 2018
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trentonlf: Sorry should have clarified, I meant this comment “Lift, Post 201: This post feels really, really weird. Like, is Lift pre-emptively guarding HSL here, or trying to get Vitek to vote for Lift? Really weird, but I don't know what to make of it. ”
Oh! No, that post doesn't factor into it, simply because I honestly have no idea what to make of that post. It caused a jarring brain-stop, and I had no idea how to read the thing. Think back to your first encounter with the 3 prong, 1 slot widget; it was sort of like that, except without the "ooo, that's neat" factor.
Attachments:
3prong1slot.jpg (30 Kb)
Posted September 18, 2018
Sorry peeps, got called away for longer than I anticipated. Going back to catching up, but before I do - I see only trentonlf commented on my pos. Was nobody else on during my absence (I think Lifthrasil was still on when I made that post), or how should I read the lack of comments?
Posted September 18, 2018
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HypersomniacLive: Sorry peeps, got called away for longer than I anticipated. Going back to catching up, but before I do - I see only trentonlf commented on my pos. Was nobody else on during my absence (I think Lifthrasil was still on when I made that post), or how should I read the lack of comments?
If you mean your post 239, and if pos means "position" instead of "piece of s***" (took longer than I want to figure out an alternative to the second interpretation), then I think Dessimu's vote being stuck is a null read. Sure, maybe scum will try to capitalize, but Dessimu might be scum or Vitek might be scum. The biggest noteworthy thing for me from your post was that it seemed to kind of assume that Dessimu and/or Vitek were town.

My vote is legit and occurred when I finished catching up on the thread. Some of the reasoning behind my vote is not appropriate to reveal right now, but will be available at a later point in time.

I don't know if you were particularly interested in my opinion on it, since my vote was one of the two you referenced, and obviously I'm going to say my vote was legit.
Posted September 18, 2018
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Bookwyrm627: In jumping from an absurd extreme to another extreme, you missed a possibility.
Hyperbole to make a point. At no point had I changed my position on that particular argument of Flub's thus I fail to see the distancing.

Now, my exchange with Poppy about the vig instructions could be construed as distancing, but that hadn't occurred at the point Flub "saw" distancing. I don't give a flying fuck if pursuing this gets me lynched - where's the distancing?
Posted September 18, 2018
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Bookwyrm627: In jumping from an absurd extreme to another extreme, you missed a possibility.
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SirPrimalform: Hyperbole to make a point. At no point had I changed my position on that particular argument of Flub's thus I fail to see the distancing.

Now, my exchange with Poppy about the vig instructions could be construed as distancing, but that hadn't occurred at the point Flub "saw" distancing. I don't give a flying fuck if pursuing this gets me lynched - where's the distancing?
I’ve always wondered, is that another way of saying the mile high club? Or is it having sex while stoned?
Posted September 18, 2018
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trentonlf: I’ve always wondered, is that another way of saying the mile high club? Or is it having sex while stoned?
That's a good question.


I have no answer.
Posted September 18, 2018
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gogtrial34987: [...] With Lift/Poppy I keep thinking "probably town vs town" and then keep realizing that no, it didn't feel like town vs town. I hope for lots of content from Vitek, so that if it comes down to a choice between no lynch and Vitek, I won't feel like it's really bad form to vote him.[...]
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HypersomniacLive: Should I read this as, between the two of them, Lifthrasil was the one to give you the most scum vibe/feeling? If so, what for?
It wasn't intended as such. More on why I don't consider it town vs town below, but me going on from that first sentence to then talk only about the possibility of a Vitek lynch was purely because 1) I'm just not seeing a high probability of a Lift wagon taking off anymore, and 2) if it did anyway, I'd have no trouble voting for it, while I might with a Vitek wagon, on account of him only just having entered the game.

Now as for Lift/Poppy and who's more scum:
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mchack:
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Vitek: I talked about the approach I also mentioned in the last game. Instead of saying this is discussion between A scum and B town, one says, this is Town x Mafia conflict. A is more scummy so let's lynch him and if he flips let's go with B next.
It's great way to setup chain mislynches.
How is it possible to see some argument as scummy from one side but not be sure which side it is?
Does your argument also hold if the possibility exists for the argument to be mafia versus SK?
A conversation is more than the individual parts. Those individual parts can all be non-scummy looking, while the conversation as a whole can. Or at least, that's what I'm experiencing.

Because I look at the Poppy-Lift arguments, and I can't honestly call either side "scummy", but the argument as a whole just feels off, particularly when reflecting upon it from some distance - less so when rereading the individual posts - and not representative of a town versus town argument. Like, it lacks... momentum? Depth? There was lots of hot air and bullets flying, but it's all superficial? No, that's not correct. I can't put my finger on it, but I do feel that there's something off and rotten.
Does that make sense?

Lift is very Lift in the argument. Tenacious? I can't read him, at all - which means that there's nothing I'd be able to point to and call scummy with any conviction. If he'd been someone else, I'd say probable town. As he's Lift... who knows? Poppy meanwhile has big ups and big downs. The way she "stood her ground" (who 'defended' her by first pointing that out?) is a positive; I don't have other game experiences of hers to compare to, but my interpretation of her character makes it unlikely she'd behave like that as scum. The way scene jumped on her wagon makes me strongly believe that she's town (assuming of course that I'm right about scene being scum). But then she follows up her black hole setup speculation distraction with that Vig/SK spoiler incident, muddying up everything into a giant WIFOM mess. On balance, by herself, just for her posts, I'd give her a slight town lean. But for both of them, being in this particular argument in the first place, makes me rate them a slight scum lean.


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gogtrial34987: So I voted scene in #112, which means that you see me backing off from him in the post before that, #75?
Or are you referring to the non-scene-directed posts in between (#85, #86, #91), where I was looking at some other people while waiting for an answer from him?
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Vitek: I felt it in post 85. That one is scene-related. It felt to me like you were quite gunning for scene and as HSL mentioned you then likened him to ZFR who was town and when HSL questioned you said you are were not leaning any way on scene while it seemed you were and that HSL attention made you to back off to not get scrutinized.
Ah! I see what you mean.
I think you missed the tense - or at least what I'm referring to - in that post. I wrote in response to HSL:
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gogtrial34987: I wasn't leaning at all when pushing, just trying to see what type of reaction I'd get, and yes, overemphasizing newbieness could come from either alignment.
The push I'm talking about there - by way of a conversation which goes via post #65, is the very initial push in post #28. That's where I asked Poppy what she thought of scene's newbieness. That newbieness didn't seem alignment indicative to me (ref ZFR); I just thought it might lead to an interesting response from Poppy.

So, at the point of post #26, I wasn't leaning, just finding some tiny hooks to get some conversation going. Poppy's response didn't give any reason to push further. Scene's response did, and so from then on through further interaction and questioning, I've started leaning every more solidly toward him being scum.

*crosses fingers for all his links being properly escaped with a superfluous space* - bump please if I need to EBWOP.
Posted September 19, 2018
Bump
Posted September 19, 2018
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Bookwyrm627: If you mean your post 239, and if pos means "position" instead of "piece of s***" (took longer than I want to figure out an alternative to the second interpretation), then I think Dessimu's vote being stuck is a null read. Sure, maybe scum will try to capitalize, but Dessimu might be scum or Vitek might be scum. The biggest noteworthy thing for me from your post was that it seemed to kind of assume that Dessimu and/or Vitek were town.

My vote is legit and occurred when I finished catching up on the thread. Some of the reasoning behind my vote is not appropriate to reveal right now, but will be available at a later point in time.

I don't know if you were particularly interested in my opinion on it, since my vote was one of the two you referenced, and obviously I'm going to say my vote was legit.
Dang, you deciphered my code-speak way too easily. Is the game giving you an indigestion?

Giving your opinion is welcome, you've talked way too little thus far.

I'm not assuming anything about Dessimu. The preface of his vote raised an eyebrow, and I keep in mind that he's proven himself a pretty fine scum-player. However, he hasn't said much to allow even a tentative read, and it's quite unlikely that we'll hear from him again before deadline.

Regarding Vitek, I'm not really sure I can read him well, but yes, I'm going with him being more likely town than not, as I wasn't really scum-reading his slot.
Granted, PoppyAppletree did some eyebrow-raising and eye-squinting things, but I'm leaning towards her being an overly confident, if not a bit smug, townie who was (a tad) too caught up in her belief she knew best to the point of not being receptive to voices telling her that the mechanics/roles/Night-actions talk was far from helping town. I'm also inclined to think that her vehement refusal to provide some evidence to her claim about Lifthrasil's RVS pattern, even when I suggested to her the easiest, and effortless, way to do it (i.e. go by memory where she saw it, and let others do the leg work), was more to tick us off.
I've not completely ruled out the case the slot's a SK, as an unaligned third-party role shares the lack of knowledge with town, and has some similarities in its play, but I'd say that sussing out the SK, should there be one, isn't town's priority on D1.


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Bookwyrm627: [...] Lift, Post 201: This post feels really, really weird. Like, is Lift pre-emptively guarding HSL here, or trying to get Vitek to vote for Lift? Really weird, but I don't know what to make of it. [...]
I know you say you don't know what to make of it, but why do you think Lifthrasil may be trying to make Vitek vote for him?


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Bookwyrm627: [...] I could easily go for either SPF or Lift, if the wagons shift in those directions. [...]
Your current choice is Vitek, and you'd easily go for Lifthrasil, while the two of them were at each others' throats. Does this mean you read that as w/w? If so, what makes you read it that way?


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Bookwyrm627: [...] Not the only risk I'm willing to take, but more on that later. [...]
As in later in D1, or later in the game?


Back to catching up.
Posted September 19, 2018
*facepalm* Just realized you didn’t need a bump, I missed the “if” and just saw “bump please I need to EBWOP”
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG Mafia #55 - Trouble at Arstotzkan Boot Camp(1211 posts)(1211 posts)
(1211 posts)