Funny you should mention drealmer7. With gogtrial34987's vague memory as a starting point, I checked the start of your games from game #42 onwards, and the only game you did that was cristigale's (#46), and guess what... drealmer7 was town, and you were scum-buddies with trentonlf. One game's still no pattern, but you didn't do it as town either.


The time PoppyAppletree started partaking in games here again doesn't preclude her from having read older games of yours. So who knows, perhaps there are others besides game #46...


Interesting.



Should I read this as, between the two of them, Lifthrasil was the one to give you the most scum vibe/feeling? If so, what for?


I think it more likely it was your post #148, and the way you contrasted supplementscene's two posts.



How about two Viteks?

LOL, I fat fingered that on my phone.

You're right, I conflated you both because it was the same quote that you were zeroing in on. For reference, the exchange I was thinking of is:

Which is ridiculous for the exactly the same reason as scene's bulletproof read.


No. In 143, what you said was:

To which I replied (in the very next post):

To which your reply was (as far as I'm aware) complete silence. So no, you did not address my request.

Here, let me remind you.

So where exactly between the 60s and 114 was I distancing? Stop being lazy.

See the beginning of this post.

It's more that I think flubbucket's reasoning wasn't well founded.

Believe me, it didn't start with me asking him why he's unvoting. But yes, I did ask. It wasn't because I was trying to get him to put his vote back so much as point out that it was lazy and insubstantial in the first place.

I have a problem with the distancing part because he completely refuses to sustantiate it. He seems to be under the impression that my criticism of his reasoning was in order to defend Poppy (you) rather than because I thought his reasoning was bad. Apparently after that I was distancing from Poppy (you) but he refuses to actually quote anything because it was lazy BS. I'm trying to get Flub to actually play town rather than be town in alignment only.

Ok, that's the end of page 5. I'm stopping there for tonight. Might have time for the game tomorrow afternoon at work.

EBWOP: End of page 4. I don't intend to get into page 5 until tomorrow.

Caught Up. But dangit it's now 8 hours after I subbed in and only now have I read the whole thread (only starting to write a post now :(
(I need to become a faster reader it seems.)

Anyway most of the stuff I wanted to comment on while reading, has already been commented in the course of the game. But I'll try and sort my thoughts into a post while trying to imitate Joe and failing horribly, I'm sure:


first though:
I think I can. #40 ... sorry, I know I shouldn't answer for other people :/ But it is one of the first thing I noted about this game. ;)

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ok I'll do a reads list myself because apparently it's all the rage nowadays even dessimu did it once:

Lifthrasil : actually reminds me of his scumplay last game. other people already mentioned how being scum three games in a row is improbable, but he's been scum twice now and won both games, I think he might be going for the hattrick there.
-The whole lift vs. poppy debate was pretty much won by poppy in my opinion (#94, #96, #102 stick out) And since I don't think it's T-T and also don't have poppy/vitek down as scum this makes lift look scummy.
-I don't like how lift jumped off the poppy train after trent went over to scene (#165) following him
-I don't like how lift nudges people to vote: bookwyrm in #165 and vitek in #201 (feels like he wants a lynch, not caring much for who)

vote Lifthrasil

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Poppy/Vitek : (Her/His) Their take on Lift I can agree on. Their take on flub not! I do not understand what they had against flubs playstyle.
The mechanic discussion (both setup in #55 and vig/sk #128) shouldn't have been started. Also:
I shouldn't bring politics into this game (because it's got nothing to do with it.) But I can't unsee this. Does it mean she really thinks Donald Trump is faced with a barrage of fabricated or spurious accusations?!?? damn, that really makes it hard for me but still: Politics have nothing to do with this game and apart from this and the mechanic discussion and the flub accusations I think Poppy had a great day and (head)strong town lean when putting all the interactions together (her talks with trent for instance or viteks take on Spf).

will not vote them today
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SirPrimalform : Can't really put my finger on it but the way he attacked flub didn't sit well with me. Also
non-sequitur! how can she say looks like we got a vig on D2 just because she didn't SK on N1?

anyway, general bad vibe from SPf
would vote for.

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supplementscene : another mixed bag. Generally feels much more observant and making much more sense than at times last game, he still says weird stuff and overlooks things: the reluctant voter part really stood out bad for instance. his vote on poppy #121 "and she seems as best first day lynch as anyone." and on #63 considering voting her with "I don't know, but it's the only wagon so far." make me think he's just out to vote and lynch anyone.

Would vote for.
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Clive : at the risk of gaining his wrath, I think I'd like to adobt Joes recommendation for the new nickname of the reluctant voter: Clive :D I love it. Also seems pretty much himself and pretty town to me. I also noticed the rvs vote as weird but believe his explanation. liked his argument to poppy in #132 about not trusting the mod. "Would you go as far as doubting that the mod's truthful about anything he posts? " nailed it. After this there shouldn't be any doubt left.

will not vote for today
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gogtrial : great questions, very entertaining, great work in capturing scene. Scum hunting in action, I'd say.

will not vote for today

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dessimu : I'm sorry about your grandmother.

still would vote for.

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bookwyrm : trying to look scummy for going after flub but not in earnest like spf seems to. in #162 says "seeing hints of TMI" ... What's TMI?

would vote for.
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trent : looks pretty town after interaction with poppy. Pretty much got his follow the cop status back just for being himself. weird.

would not vote for today
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dedoporno : not much of a read. At least he seems to be on the right side (i.e. the side I feel is right) of the scene/poppy argument #161. he doesn't want to go after poppy and is rather for lunching scene. but he doesn't take lift into the equation. (lift is lift) hmm.

would vote for.
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Joe : Funny Guy. We should keep him around for fun read lists and making up nicknames. Else pretty useless :P

would vote for.
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flub : I bet he's town.

will not vote for this game.

Poppy 120: Lift and Scene are read as scum buddies, because scene is buddying up to Lift.

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NEVAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!

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Trent 126: ditches Poppy's wagon once it really starts to move, shifts to Supplement. Supplement has the next biggest wagon, though one of those votes has an evaporation route built in. There has been people who FoS Scene but didn't vote him, though.

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SPF 129: An excellent question to poke a hole in a bad argument.

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Alas, you are wrong on one count.

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SPF looks to be pretty thoroughly in Poppy's pocket, his claim about being willing to vote her not-withstanding.

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Working on it. Wanted to finish catching up first. Will vote at the end of this post [series?].

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Absolutely agree.

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Vitek replaces Poppy. For the sake of clarity, I'm not going to go back and edit my above post-notes.

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Ugh. I hate you, Vitek. I was all set to murder your slot in the face, but now here you come being all reasonable and boop. Why you gotta do that to me, man?

Now I'm debating whether it is still worth throwing Vitek and Scene into the thunderdome together. Vitek's lynch might be worthwhile simply to try and read the alignments of a few other players, but I'd hate to lose town!Vitek. (Scum!Vitek needs to die in a fire, though)

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Lift, Post 201: This post feels really, really weird. Like, is Lift pre-emptively guarding HSL here, or trying to get Vitek to vote for Lift? Really weird, but I don't know what to make of it.

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Silence might have been TOO succinct an answer. Granted, I may be answering for him, but the main thrust of his argument is that you stopped defending her, thus creating distance. There are no posts to point to, which was precisely the point.

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The vote was Schmuck Bait (these links are also Schmuck Bait). Sadly, the closest thing to a Schmuck we've seen so far was Lift (being one of the few to even acknowledge it, and the only one to go further than acknowledging it).

TMI = "Too Much Information"

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Unvote Flub
Vote Vitek

I may reconsider that Vitek vote later.

Here we go again.



OK, so he got you and who correct? Dessimu or Lift?

Lifthrasil has also honed his inscrutability. Town and Mafia tactics often appear quite similar. He comes after teammates over things which shouldn't be dredged up. And his questioning can be substantive even when he's lying through his teeth.

However voting is a good tell with which to scrutinize this player.

Good morning

When you see any votecount from me, please take a second to check that your name is shown voting for the correct person.

Vote count:

supplementscene - 4: JoeSapphire, gogtrial, trentonlf, Lifthrasil
Vitek - 3: Dessimu, supplementscene, Bookwyrm
HypersomniacLive - 1: Vitek
JoeSapphire - 1: HSL
Lifthrasil 1 - mchack

Everyone else - 0
Not voting: everyone else

13 players. Takes 7 to lynch.

Well as far as I remember the D1 lynches in the last two games always were T-M. (well ok not really since #53 was no lynch. But the big EOD wagons were T-M)

in game #53 it was zfr / spf with spf being scum and not followed up on. (ok, I only lazily observed that game and just went back to re-read end of D1 that game. It was much more complex than only zfr vs. spf and ended with no-lynch. Here's to hoping we don't see that again!)

in game #54 it was zfr / lift with lift being scum and not followed up on.

Hopefully this game we can lynch scum. and if we can't at least follow up on the other target later.
Vitek, you yourself said we should try and lynch those of us that give us the most information with their flip. (and the lurkers should be copped/vigged)

I think we get the most information today from the Poppy/Lift argument (a lot of people got involved there) and since I think Lift is the more likely scum in that combo, I am all for lynching Lift today. (And let me go on record, that I think you should be lynched tomorrow, should lift flip town after all. (As I said about following up on the other party. )

And should you flip town, too then let me go on record that I should be lynched next. For coming up with this stupid argument. But I don't really think both of you town. Argh, now I'm not sure anymore. It would really suck if both of you were town. damnit. it was easier making arguments last game, when I knew other people's alignment. :P

oh well it's D1 and we gotta lynch someone. My money is on Lift. (figuratively speaking. I'm not betting since it's not allowed (Should be good odds though if I were. like 30:0.5))

Is there anyone who has openly expressed interest in voting flub?? I'd like to meet them.


Exactly one? Is it Dessimu?

Did that actually happen as desribed? Well, I guess I'll be doing a read on Lift tonight seeing that they are supporting the wagon I liked the most.

Have I really? If I did then it was only to push some of my agenda (the part about copping/vigging I said for sure). In fact I believe people should be lynched for being scummy, not for providing most info. Sure, if I feel equally about two possible lynches I pick the one with higher informational value, but no, I am not supporter of lynching someone because it provides informations.

I talked about the approach I also mentioned in the last game. Instead of saying this is discussion between A scum and B town, one says, this is Town x Mafia conflict. A is more scummy so let's lynch him and if he flips let's go with B next.
It's great way to setup chain mislynches.
How is it possible to see some argument as scummy from one side but not be sure which side it is?
I mentioned it last game in regards to Lift, who said this about me and SPF. That he sees SPF as scummy and me as town but he sees it as T-M argument so if SPF flips town he needs to focus on me and he did so. Textbook chain lynch. Here you even threw yourself in for good measure as third option.


I felt it in post 85. That one is scene-related. It felt to me like you were quite gunning for scene and as HSL mentioned you then likened him to ZFR who was town and when HSL questioned you said you are were not leaning any way on scene while it seemed you were and that HSL attention made you to back off to not get scrutinized.

Ah. Thanks for checking. I just had a look and I actually unvoted drealmer in that game before returning to voting him after he wrote something scummy enough. So not exactly the same, but close enough I guess.
Still I don't think that it's a patters. So I guess that Poppy's accusation that 'letting a RVS vote sit and evolve into a real vote' is my pattern was just something she made up.


Which is why I took that post as some kind of semi-joke. That's the beauty about flubb being confirmed town. He can write his usual mix of jokes and actual questions, he be as flubby as he likes without being a distraction. Which raises the question: why do you waste so much time on analyzing flubb? No matter how much you analyze, you won't be able to convince anyone that he's scum because he is confirmed by the mod. So how about focusing on players who actually can be scum?

Yes, I DO want a lynch. No-lynch is bad. Especially on D1. Unless you are scum. And I want people to put down their votes so that others can see them. No waffling about 'Yeah, anyone might be scum, but I'm not going to commit to anything'. ... But other that you assume I do care about who we lynch. I would prefer Scene or Vitek. Vitek didn't exactly do much to dispell the scummy impression that Poppy left. SPF, Joe and you are in the 'better them than no-one' territory. But I'm not going to vote trent or dedo or HSL today. I'm getting quite towny vibes from them. And I'm definitely not voting flubbucket, obviously, no matter how much some players would like to make him look scummy. I trust that we are not in a bastard setup.

Thanks for the compliment! :-)

This reads very much like a LAMIST statement!