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General discussionGOG Mafia #54 - Pokemon Death Tournament(835 posts)(835 posts)
(835 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 30, 2018
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supplementscene: In post 176 Lift states he doesn't know who the third Mafia member is, which made me think there were 3 Mafia and 7 Town and Town would need all 7 Town to agree to get the lynch.

I also assumed the ratio would be similar to Secret Hitler the ratio was 6 town, 1 hitler and 3 fascists and we needed 6 votes to get a pass. We were told this in SH but looking through the notes I see we haven't been told how many Mafia members there are.
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mchack: you need to read more careful. others have told you it's 9 town vs 3 mafia and so have I (even quoting the relevant part of the OP where the mod told us that this is the case.) Also you know it's 12 players when you count through the list of players in the first post. so if you assumed 3 mafia by lifts post you should be counting the 9 players left. how do you get to 7 town then?
don't know about the secret hitler stuff never played that. But about this game:

Is zfr the only one you'd be willing to lynch? why? if not, who else? why? make a case about who you want lynched and why and vote accordingly.
And then if you see that this lynch is not going to happen, vote the person that you think might be scum _and_ that also has a reasonable chance of being lynched. (looking at who else said they'd be willing to vote that person) and let's hope that enough people reach a consensus before deadline.

(ideally way before deadline, if only we knew by now whether deadbolt wishes to sup out or really wishes to quit by getting lynched, it would make voting much easier right now.)
Right I've got my numbers wrong. I thought it was 10 players, 3 mafia. Needing only 7 out of 9 town votes puts us in a safer seating than I had thought.

I'm not only willing to lynch ZFR. I'm asking for consensus. The strongest analysis prior to Deadbolts meltdown was from Lift and IIRC Trent implicating ZFR and Zogs. I think they had the most votes then. No one was going for Deadbolt then and I said 'unless you can sway public opinion'. My intention was that 'sure we'll all go for Deadbolt based on this new evidence but unless we get a consensus we're not getting a lynch.' The 1 poster isn't available tomorrow so he can't change his vote and he's throwing a new hat in the right. That made me worry that the vote would be split and we wouldn't get the numbers through.

Now if people think Deadbolts meltdown means he's scum then I'm fine going with the consensus. And even if he is town he's hardly going to be the greatest loss.

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yogsloth: Yeah, but Lift doesn't ping me.

Just ISO-d him and he's within his Town range here.
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ZFR: I'm giving deadbolt a more time on account him being new, but he's not even trying. If this continues I'll have no qualms voting him D1.

scene's insistence on telling Bookwyrm not to vote for deadbolt ("Unless you can sway public opinion" (???)) given how deadbolt actually got a viable wagon and was also mentioned as a possibility by 2 more people (trent + vitek) raised a big flag. If deadbolt + scene are indeed scumbuddies (with another sleeper Sage?) it might explain why the mafia team didn't attempt to take advantage of me vs Lift arguing.

Also, while scum!Lift would easily bus scum!deadbolt, would scum!deadbolt vote against scum!Lift? I see that as less likely. He could be a new mafia caught not knowing what to do, but then his basic instinct would at least tell him not to vote his buddies. So a scum flip from deadbolt would make Lift less likely scum for me. (But wouldn't clear him entirely: after all deadbolt voted Lift after Lift voted him first so it could be a reaction "my buddy voted for me??? I'll vote for him!").
I wasn't saying Bookwyrm shouldn't be lynched, I said unless everyone can agree on him we shouldn't be splitting the vote.

And I have got on board Lift's accusations against you. Which I've stated isn't much to go on but alongside Deadbolt is the biggest red flag yet.

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Sage103082: Telling someone how they should vote is not town in my book.
Why not? Town need a chief whip to organise so they reach the 7 vote minimum. If Town split their vote 3 ways what happens? They don't get the lynch and are on the back foot. I also never suggested either ZFR or Yogs. They were suggested by other posters after they had the most negative analysis. I suggest reading the thread in full to confirm this.
Posted August 30, 2018
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Sage103082: Did you post this for a specific reason?
It's dangerous to go alone. Take this!


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supplementscene: I'm not against voting Deadbolt if the majority agree on it. But 1 poster shouldn't influence the majority decision. The majority should decide and the rest should then come into line.
...

+ other stuff
How is that majority supposed to make that decision when there shouldn't be influenced by individuals?
The majority is made of those individuals.

Are you voting ZFR because you think he is scum or because ha has/had many votes as is the most likely lynch?
You say you are sticking with him but what if he becomes not an option for viable lynch?

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supplementscene: Bookwyrm saying he isn't available on deadline day, stating he is only voting Deadbolt and the rest should come into his line or fail to get a lynch sounds very scummy
I would very like to see post where he said this.



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mchack: (But please: don't try and explain how the game works to someone like vitek. he probably played it before you were even born :P (this may be a crass exaggeration for dramatic effect) sorry)
Depends on how old he is.
If he is... hmmm less than nine then it is possible you are right. :-)


Mchack, you said you would vote either LIft or ZFR. Do you read both as scummy? Why?
Posted August 30, 2018
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supplementscene: ...talking sense...

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Sage103082: Telling someone how they should vote is not town in my book.
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supplementscene: Why not? Town need a chief whip to organise so they reach the 7 vote minimum. If Town split their vote 3 ways what happens? They don't get the lynch and are on the back foot. ...
hehehe, can't argue with that. It's just usually not the newbie to swing the chief whip (usually it's yogs or bookwyrm screaming kill kill kill and herding the votes together on one target (iirc))

well, I won't vote you today. So there's that at least. :)
Posted August 30, 2018
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Lifthrasil: Meow? Was this a flavour claim?
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Sage103082: Nope. <Insert dirty mind comment here>
Whow! I'm sure glad you feel better! :-)


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supplementscene: In post 176 Lift states he doesn't know who the third Mafia member is, which made me think there were 3 Mafia and 7 Town and Town would need all 7 Town to agree to get the lynch.
...and the remaining 2? You read my assumption of 3 Mafia members and you concluded from that, that there must be 7 town. 3+7 = 10. With 12 players total. So, what information do you have about those other two? Are you part of a 2-person neutral faction or something?


@all: scene got some attention now and rightfully so. But those who played Secret Hitler with him may remember that asking lots of (partially unnecessary) questions was his MO there too. So I'm not sure whether these strange questions make him scum. I think his strange math actually is note-worthy, but I don't know yet what it means. In a closed setup I would now assume 2 scum factions of 2 players each. So 8+2+2. But Joe specifically mentioned 3 killer Pokemon and 7+3+2 would be quite unwinnable for town. So I'm stumped. Another thing that is noteworthy is that mchack seems to support scene. Really only towny helpfulness? Or are they in some kind of faction?

In any case, scene is lynchable now. But I would still prefer to lynch deadbolt. Yes, he's new and lynching newbies is impolite. But his non-play is definitely anti-game and probably anti-town. Newbies can be scum too, after all and I guess in this case he is. Also, he doesn't show any signs that he would want to stop lurking, isn't asking for a replacement and we have a deadline today. So, new preference list:

deadbolt
one of (ZFR, Scene, Yogs)
flubb
anyone else
Posted August 30, 2018
Hi everybody.
sorry for missing yesterday evening battle update, life got in my way. Thanks McHack for doing one.

It looks like deadbolt's requested a substitute so I'll starts getting on that.

I can't access the gog private messages from work... so if you've sent me a private message I can read the first line of it but can't respond. If you're assuming anything based on my lack of response, you're probably wrong.

Today's going to be very busy as well, but I'll try and do what I can. I wasn't expecting to have so much life when I set this deadline.



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supplementscene:
AAAARGH EVERYBODY STOP DOUBLEPOSTING AAAAAAARGHHHH hyperbeam own head
Posted August 30, 2018
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JoeSapphire: Hi everybody.
sorry for missing yesterday evening battle update, life got in my way. Thanks McHack for doing one.

It looks like deadbolt's requested a substitute so I'll starts getting on that.
Will this lead to an extension of the deadline?
Because if the main target drops out of the game and is replaced shortly before the deadline, that's hardly fair to the one jumping in or to all of us. If he really was lurking due to RL reasons, that changes the read on him. And with the deadline so close, we're really at risk of a no-lynch now.
Posted August 30, 2018
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Vitek: Mchack, you said you would vote either LIft or ZFR. Do you read both as scummy? Why?
hmm, I think I said it because I felt like only going after lurkers and a "fluffposting" yogs (I think that's the mafia term for it) felt like a bit too little. But actually I have not much more to show. As for Lift and ZFR: Neither feels really scummy to me but neither feels obvi-town to me either, I can see both going both ways, so I'd vote both if I have to, to avoid no lynch. But neither is a preferred target of mine. As for who is more scummy than the other? can't say. pretty much on par for me. But I think I'll put trent up there with them, as I feel exactly like that for him too. *shrug*
you on the other hand feel quite town to me, so I will not vote you for now. (unless you poison me of course. Then it's over between us.)
--- on refresh:
hmm, I think I have to weigh this differently now. Lift is making redundant posts sometimes and going after scene now seems scummy to me. (he had already acknowledged the wrong math.) How did flub put it? kicking the babies? I can't support that. so that makes it lift > zfr (= trent) in my book. But still. At least lift is really taking part. yogs doesn't. sage doesn't. they're not newbies. I think even Spf who's also lurky made more interesting comments. argh I don't know. I'll vote before going to work, but try and re-read before doing that. And I hope we hear from Joe before I have to go.
---on second refresh:
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JoeSapphire: It looks like deadbolt's requested a substitute so I'll starts getting on that.
looks like? hrm. it'd help if we got solid info. maybe he can say so himself. if he doesn't sub, we're pretty much set on him for lynch...
Posted August 30, 2018
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Lifthrasil: Will this lead to an extension of the deadline?
Probably it will. I don't like it but...

If y'all want to lynch someone today anyroad please do
Posted August 30, 2018
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mchack: .............
I meant, I think he's not grasped the full concept of the game, yet.
............
You mean like answering direct questions??

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supplementscene: .......... We were told this in SH but looking through the notes I see we haven't been told how many Mafia members there are.
Are you just skimming this thread??


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supplementscene: .......... I suggest reading the thread in full to confirm this.
Ironic.


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JoeSapphire: ......
If y'all want to lynch someone today anyroad please do
And if someone feels like bkocking in the roke??
Posted August 30, 2018
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JoeSapphire: If y'all want to lynch someone today anyroad please do
I want to lynch Lift today, but there is a saying: you can't clap with one hand.
Posted August 30, 2018
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Sage103082: Nope. <Insert dirty mind comment here>
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Lifthrasil: Whow! I'm sure glad you feel better! :-)

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supplementscene: In post 176 Lift states he doesn't know who the third Mafia member is, which made me think there were 3 Mafia and 7 Town and Town would need all 7 Town to agree to get the lynch.
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Lifthrasil: ...and the remaining 2? You read my assumption of 3 Mafia members and you concluded from that, that there must be 7 town. 3+7 = 10. With 12 players total. So, what information do you have about those other two? Are you part of a 2-person neutral faction or something?

@all: scene got some attention now and rightfully so. But those who played Secret Hitler with him may remember that asking lots of (partially unnecessary) questions was his MO there too. So I'm not sure whether these strange questions make him scum. I think his strange math actually is note-worthy, but I don't know yet what it means. In a closed setup I would now assume 2 scum factions of 2 players each. So 8+2+2. But Joe specifically mentioned 3 killer Pokemon and 7+3+2 would be quite unwinnable for town. So I'm stumped. Another thing that is noteworthy is that mchack seems to support scene. Really only towny helpfulness? Or are they in some kind of faction?

In any case, scene is lynchable now. But I would still prefer to lynch deadbolt. Yes, he's new and lynching newbies is impolite. But his non-play is definitely anti-game and probably anti-town. Newbies can be scum too, after all and I guess in this case he is. Also, he doesn't show any signs that he would want to stop lurking, isn't asking for a replacement and we have a deadline today. So, new preference list:

deadbolt
one of (ZFR, Scene, Yogs)
flubb
anyone else
I wrongly thought there were 10 players. As you remember from Secret Hitler I don't really read the rules and details that thoroughly.

I don't even know if this secret faction is possible. But if I genuinely was Scum, would I be trying to make sure a consensus lynch happened? Maybe I suppose if I knew the accused were both Town. But in turn getting a concensus lynch is vital for Town's chances.

Also there can't be 4 Scum if Joe has stated there is 3 can there?

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Sage103082: Did you post this for a specific reason?
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Vitek: It's dangerous to go alone. Take this!


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supplementscene: I'm not against voting Deadbolt if the majority agree on it. But 1 poster shouldn't influence the majority decision. The majority should decide and the rest should then come into line.
...

+ other stuff
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Vitek: How is that majority supposed to make that decision when there shouldn't be influenced by individuals?
The majority is made of those individuals.

Are you voting ZFR because you think he is scum or because ha has/had many votes as is the most likely lynch?
You say you are sticking with him but what if he becomes not an option for viable lynch?

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supplementscene: Bookwyrm saying he isn't available on deadline day, stating he is only voting Deadbolt and the rest should come into his line or fail to get a lynch sounds very scummy
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Vitek: I would very like to see post where he said this.
I think I implied I'll change my vote and vote with the majority in order to get the 7 votes needed. ZFR maybe gave a tell but more importantly felt the need to be very defensive when accused. What that means we will only find out in due course.

I actually would be happy with deadbolt being lynched. It means we don't wait around for a sub and we have a player in ZFR who scum or town posts a great deal so we get some type of read and a better game.

RE: Bookworm not being here: Post 180 "So, FYI to the group at large: Odds are good that I'll be unavailable at deadline tomorrow, and likely unavailable for most of the time leading up to deadline."

Lynch Deadbolt
Posted August 30, 2018
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mchack: not voting: flub, Spf
Wat.
Posted August 30, 2018
It looks like my mistake maybe costly next round with the knives out. But once I'm gone I'd advice Town players to look who had their knives out for me once it's proven I'm town and ask themselves 'why'....

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mchack: .............
I meant, I think he's not grasped the full concept of the game, yet.
............
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flubbucket: You mean like answering direct questions??
I've answered most questions but I'm also the most questioned so can't really answer everybody individually. I think you'll find I answered everything even if I didn't reply directly to individuals.
Posted August 30, 2018
Ok, looks like I'm subbing in for deadbolt.

I'd appreciate not being lynched, but obviously that's up to you guys.
I've been following the game but don't have any strong reads, won't be able to sit down and write a proper post for a few hours.
Posted August 30, 2018
Oh yeah, lunches I would support:

Yogsgurt
Zebra fried rice
Deadpoultry (or Adaliabeefs)
Spicy Italian sub

That's sort of in order.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG Mafia #54 - Pokemon Death Tournament(835 posts)(835 posts)
(835 posts)