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General discussionGOG has a problem with indie titles(110 posts)(110 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 07, 2023
Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I assume that another aspect of the issue might be that gog doesn't promote indies like Steam does. I'm talking in relative terms and not in absolutes, so it's a given that the outreach ins't even comparable, but maybe having something akin to the 'steam fest' events around here would help in that regard.
Post edited February 07, 2023 by Wirvington
Posted February 07, 2023
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Syphon72: It sounds more like personal complains than looking at the real issue.
Personal complaints for a very personalized matter. You can't treat indies like headless corporate accounts.

But alright, aside from issues which have already been mentioned here, including GOG giving their lunch to a bully and letting them eat it, what else is the problem?
Posted February 07, 2023
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Wirvington: Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I assume that another aspect of the issue might be that gog doesn't promote indies like Steam does. I'm talking in relative terms and not in absolutes, so it's a given that the outreach ins't even comparable, but maybe having something akin to the 'steam fest' events around here would help in that regard.
GOG has indie game sales, but I guess that's not the same as steam fest.
Post edited February 08, 2023 by Syphon72
Posted February 07, 2023
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Syphon72: It sounds more like personal complains than looking at the real issue.
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Darvond: Personal complaints for a very personalized matter. You can't treat indies like headless corporate accounts.

But alright, aside from issues which have already been mentioned here, including GOG giving their lunch to a bully and letting them eat it, what else is the problem?
It's obviously personal to you. Your complaints were unrelated to why indie games don't come to GOG. It was just whining about how you dislike GOG.

You said submitting games on GOG is very poorly described and the build system is completely asinine, and how developers don't seem to have a real voice on GOG. I have seen this same complaint about Steam, but indie developers keep releasing it on Steam.

Steam is flooded with porn games, and Steam still has tons of indie games released on it.

Saying all indies care about social issues is just not true.

The real issues were pointed out already.
Posted February 08, 2023
We patronize a game platform for games, not for virtual prurient gratification. We're not even interested in gratuitous violence, gore, or blood. We have other outlets for the literal former, i.e., JustForFans and OnlyFans, as well the latter,as in Shinobi training for self defense. For us, games are psychological therapy to promote mental and emotional well-being.
Posted February 08, 2023
Not sure how you can be mad at EGS.
They are supporting indie developers.
A lot of games get a 1 year exclusive contract, cash infusion upfront.
This allows smaller developers to take their time and release a polished product and get paid a bulk sum for an early access release like Against the Storm.

Gog is now copying their advertisement model by paying devs/pubs to giveaway a free game that's already been released. If they wanted to try to get exclusive release rights on an early access game it would fail since it would barely sell and they'd pay way more than they'd make.

Imagine being a team of indie developers scraping by, working for free, and now not only can you pay your bills and employees but you also have a storefront that's going to continue working with you.
How many times have we seen an update delayed on gog and the developer says that there was some issue on gog's end? Yet somehow a new storefront like EGS can handle dozens of absolutely massive free to play games that get updated constantly in parity with steam.

At some point you have to stop blaming the developers, especially the indie ones.
Meanwhile, games that release with denuvo that finally get released here years after the game is stale goes to #1 seller. No one here has any standards.

Gog's standards for DRM free are eroding and they will still never surpass EGS. Identity crisis.
Posted February 08, 2023
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Swissy88: Not sure how you can be mad at EGS.
They are supporting indie developers.
A lot of games get a 1 year exclusive contract, cash infusion upfront.
This allows smaller developers to take their time and release a polished product and get paid a bulk sum for an early access release like Against the Storm.
Yet somehow a new storefront like EGS can handle dozens of absolutely massive free to play games that get updated constantly in parity with steam.

At some point you have to stop blaming the developers, especially the indie ones.
Meanwhile, games that release with denuvo that finally get released here years after the game is stale goes to #1 seller. No one here has any standards.

Gog's standards for DRM free are eroding and they will still never surpass EGS. Identity crisis.
EGS has a massive budget, and I am not surprised they handle updates better than GOG. I don't see people blaming the developers, just people understanding things from their point of view. I completely understand why indie developers would release on steam/EGS before GOG.
Posted February 08, 2023
Also adding that it seems like EGS has been an issue, I don't know the contract details but it seems like with the game giveaways, Indie devs get a guaranteed kickback on some amount that I would guess makes it worthwhile, which bumps it ahead of Gog if you're choosing only a certain amount of store fronts to support.
Posted February 08, 2023
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toma85: The Epic Games Store happened. This is one of the results. You can read or hear that developers starting to have problems to deal with several versions they have to release with each store. Steam and EGS are two versions. With GOG they have three versions. This is already too much for smaller studios. You also have developers here which removed games on GOG because of low sales. In this case they don't want to do the extra work for a GOG version anymore, e.g. CHANGE: A Homeless Survival.
Kind of agree until a point: Lazyness, bureaucracy, ineptitude

If patches/updates deployment is a real nightmare, then:
-By now, rash.io and other "small e-stores" would be extinct
-The smartphone e-stores boom would have killed the consoles &/or pc stores as well

Another perspective: V: Rings of Saturn (Early Access). Lots & steady updates on the 3 platforms (rash.io, spigot, ThePseudoDRM-free)
IF a self-published independent SOLO developer can do it: Why not the medium/big boys?

And: Why every other day patches/updates anyway??
Starting right there something smells really funny, don't you agree?

And... the opportunistic sarcasm: What about all those miraculous multiplatform vgame engines?
Not the holly grial then? (Yes, e-store clients devkits aside)
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toma85: The Epic Games Store happened. This is one of the results. You can read or hear that developers starting to have problems to deal with several versions they have to release with each store. Steam and EGS are two versions. With GOG they have three versions. This is already too much for smaller studios. You also have developers here which removed games on GOG because of low sales. In this case they don't want to do the extra work for a GOG version anymore, e.g. CHANGE: A Homeless Survival.
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Alexim: It's very sad to see that EGS, which in words was hated by everyone, has managed to erode in a very short time the small space that GOG had carved out for itself in more than a decade. I can only hope that GOG can find a way to survive in the long run.
Please don't be condescending. All we know/witnessed this store decline itself in multiple aspects
It's not only fault of the fierce competitors

And truth be told, all those big boys are not perfect either. Opic doesn't have a forum, it took years to implement achievements/cart/wishlist versus for how long all those have been on ThePseudoDRM-free?
A real honest analysis would be the first step to improve, BUT... [fill it please]
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Alexim: In your opinion, what are the issues that lead even indies to abandon GOG at the first sign of success, and what could be done to convince the developers to stay on GOG?
Other than those 2 small comments I have, I happily second all the ideas posted

And for the memorabilia: January 14, 2022
The Silent release (No Announcement) of the "Disney Classic Games Collection" AND 4 Smut vgames
gog.com/forum/general/disney_classic_games_collection_update/post1
gog.com/news/discover_4_games_from_jast

People, please beat that!
Posted February 08, 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOeKidp-iWo
Posted February 08, 2023
Sorry, forgot to add 3 small random examples that may help to support the OP point:

*DEV JoyMasher: "Vengeful Guardian: Moonrider" 12Jan2023
Versus gog available [Sort by: Release date (from newest)]
Blazing Chrome - Global 2019-07-11; GOG 2019-07-11
Odallus: The Dark Call - Global 2015-07-15; GOG 2015-07-15
Oniken: Unstoppable Edition - Global 2014-02-05; GOG 2016-08-24

*DEV Techland: "Dying Light 2" February 4, 2022
Versus gog available [Sort by: Release date (from newest)]
Dying Light - Global 2021-05-27; GOG 2021-05-27

*DEVPUB Oddworld Inhabitants: "Oddworld: Soulstorm" April 6, 2021
Versus gog available [Sort by: Release date (from newest)]
Oddworld: Munch's Oddysee - Global 2016-07-25; GOG 2016-09-01
Oddworld: New ’n’ Tasty - Global 2015-02-25; GOG 2015-02-25
Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath HD - Global 2010-12-20; GOG 2011-07-19
Oddworld: Abe's Exoddus - Global 1998-11-30; GOG 2008-12-23
Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee - Global 1997-10-31; GOG 2008-12-16

Data sources:
-PCGW (spigot only for Vengeful)
-gog db
Posted February 08, 2023
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toma85: The Epic Games Store happened. This is one of the results. You can read or hear that developers starting to have problems to deal with several versions they have to release with each store. Steam and EGS are two versions. With GOG they have three versions. This is already too much for smaller studios. You also have developers here which removed games on GOG because of low sales. In this case they don't want to do the extra work for a GOG version anymore, e.g. CHANGE: A Homeless Survival.
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tag+: Kind of agree until a point: Lazyness, bureaucracy, ineptitude

If patches/updates deployment is a real nightmare, then:
-By now, rash.io and other "small e-stores" would be extinct
-The smartphone e-stores boom would have killed the consoles &/or pc stores as well

Another perspective: V: Rings of Saturn (Early Access). Lots & steady updates on the 3 platforms (rash.io, spigot, ThePseudoDRM-free)
IF a self-published independent SOLO developer can do it: Why not the medium/big boys?
Sure, any developer can do it. More if they want to do it or feel it's worth the money and time.
Posted February 08, 2023
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Alexim: We all know that GOG struggles to secure AAA titles from big publishers because of their stubbornness in implementing DRM and because of the vastly smaller user base than Steam.
But what I don't see mentioned often is that even indie titles released by mid-sized publishers seem to be starting to abandon GOG, or at least leave it as a last option to scrape together some extra money.

You can also see how indie developers who have been lucky enough to be successful have almost immediately ditched GOG and stopped releasing their games on this platform, which then lacks a lot of sequels to successful indie games. Here are a few examples:

Spelunky: released on day 1 on GOG in 2013 by Mossmouth.
Spelunky 2: released only on Steam in 2020 also by Mossmouth.

Risk of Rain: released 3 months late on GOG in 2014 by Hopoo Games.
Risk of Rain 2: released only on Steam and EGS in 2020 also by Hopoo Games, later acquired by Gearbox.

Octodad: Dadliest Catch: released on day 1 on GOG in 2014 by Young Horses.
Bugsnax: the developers' new game released on EGS in 2020 and Steam in 2022 and they said they were not interested in GOG.

Q.U.B.E. and Q.U.B.E. 2: released almost at day 1 on GOG in 2014 and 2018.
Q.U.B.E. 10th Anniversary: released only on Steam and EGS in 2022 and the developers said they were not interested in GOG.

Slime Rancher: released on GOG in 2016 by Monomi Park. They never released the DLCs of the game.
Slime Rancher 2: released only on Steam and EGS in 2022 and the developers said they were not interested in GOG.

Backbone: released on day 1 on GOG in 2021 by Raw Fury.
Tails: The Backbone Preludes: released only on Steam and EGS in 2023 and no sign of it coming to GOG.

Darkest Dungeon: released on day 1 on GOG in 2016 by Red Hook Studios.
Darkest Dungeon II: it has just been officially announced that the sequel will be released on Steam and EGS. No mention of GOG.

Supergiant Games used to release its games on GOG about a year late, Hades was released on Steam in 2020 after the exclusive deal with EGS.

Devolver Digital delayed the release of Return to Monkey Island on GOG specifically ignoring any request for explanation. It remains to be seen how they will act with their upcoming releases.

Humble Games used to release its games on GOG on day 1, now there has been Midnight Fight Express "coming soon" for ages, and SIGNALIS doesn't look like it will ever arrive.

GOG remains attractive to self-publishing indie starters and small publishers, who benefit from every bit of additional media exposure, as well as having a strong loyal group of quality publishers such as Akupara, Wadjet Eye Games, and THQ Nordic, not counting various publishers of adult games that found a home after experiencing Steam's instability.

Nonetheless, GOG is increasingly unable to secure the release of successful indie sequels, and the users are forced to buy the aforementioned on Steam or EGS, or wait years in the faint hope that they will finally arrive on GOG.

In your opinion, what are the issues that lead even indies to abandon GOG at the first sign of success, and what could be done to convince the developers to stay on GOG?
It's up to the developers and publishers ultimately. GoG is the butt end of a cigarette, a good run for games but it's at the end. Take Skyrim for instance, it ended up on gog.

Edit: I do hope more publishers and developers become drm free. And triple a titles become more prevalent.
Post edited February 08, 2023 by CoffeeDrone
Posted February 08, 2023
Meh, this does not only affect indies, but all publishers.
A+ productions are affected as well.

I am still waiting for Life Is Strange 2 or the remaster to part 1. A plague tale? Not seen so far.

And somehow I also have little hopes to see Horizon Forbidden West here, should it ever come to PC.
Posted February 08, 2023
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neumi5694: A plague tale? Not seen so far.
What are you talking about? Both A Plague Tale: Requiem and A Plague Tale Bundle are in the store.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG has a problem with indie titles(110 posts)(110 posts)
(110 posts)