This is indeed a crazy post. Almost as if you see the wagon forming on AFP and want to try and derail it a little

I like the idea of trying to stir things up a bit, but fail to see how this post could be seen as a Town move. You had reason to vote for me, you clearly later had reason to vote for AFP. Or are you resigned to AFP going so are bussing him?

And then you remove it again - you seem to be jumping on various other people with gusto...a second attempt to derail the AFP wagon??!

I'm sorry, but mass role claim isn't always beneficial to town, and it can quite often be detrimental.
Fact 1) Claiming vanilla is always an option, whether you are scum or not. No need to wait to claim last.
Fact 2) Scum can always claim doctor or cop early on, so they know which ones to watch out for. They don't need to night kill them, since claimed doctor that stays alive for multiple nights is a possible lynch.

In a usual game, scum know who is on their team, and who isn't. They don't know the roles though, so they can't prioritize threats properly. Mass role claim allows them to target highest threats first, and to know what they are up against.

Mass Claiming works at a later point because it brings inconsistencies to light, but mass claiming day 1 will give scum much more information than it will town.

[emphasis mine]
Town should always try and analyse a NK, it should never be just shrugged off as something that someone said; if the NK will be chalked up to my comment, then I'd be inclined to think that it's either lazy play, or scummy - not that they're mutually exclusive.


[emphasis mine]
Hmm... Hijack made a good point about this. While I do agree that it would have been a very risky plan, you blew it for him, if he was actually going for that.
Because, allow me to say that, if that was his plan, I'd have expected him to wait to put it in action, and not try to get lynched on D1 - think about it, D1 is the most certain day to have the least chances of success, if any at all. Do you think he'd really have gone for it D1?
Now you could say that you did it to protect town (which I see now that you did), but you still interfered, and perhaps deprived town from a chance to hit scum later on.
Again, if that was his plan - we will never know now, as I don't expect Hijack to admit to it now, even if it was.

And please, keep an eye on me; we're at a point where we all should keep an eye on everyone else. For me, the added benefit of this practice is that I get to see other points of view and takes on my thoughts and can learn from any mistakes I make; it's practically my second game, so I still have a lot to learn.
Just don't neglect to look out for scum too.


[emphasis mine]
You said "used" - how can they have already used my comment? Nth has happened yet. Should I assume that it's been already used in another thread you know of?

I'm starting to wonder if there's a mafia school where players are taught how to twist/ misinterpret/ misrepresent/ take out of context what one says in order to fit their arguments; can anyone confirm if such a school exists? And if it does, could someone tell me where I can enrol?

Please reread my post (I assume that you did read it, and not just skimmed through it to bold the part you did), and point out where exactly that "clearly" is stated? Since when do "may" and "might" mean "clearly"? I'm not a native English speaker, so such meaning of these words may have eluded me; if so, forgive my ignorance, and please point me to the right direction.
It looks like it's "clear" to you because it fits your argument that I'm building a case to lynch trenotnlf ("or any of the the other supposed soft claimers", as you say) on D2. And because it's "clear", the counterargument I presented must be an attempt to disguise(?) my agenda.

The only agenda I have is to help town get rid of the scum and win.



I thought that it's entirely up to the player. Is there a rule that one must claim before the hammer?



Yes, our weapon is our vote, but not if we hop form player to player like rabbits in heat. IMHO, and I agree with JMich on this, its power is weakened if one overuses it. And you are one to do so. Perhaps if you look at it this way, you'd see why people are reluctant to follow you every time you change your vote.


I'm afraid that the forum may eat up my post if I add more to it, so I'm going to hit the post button here, and make my reply to trentonlf in a separate post.

Oops, forgot to edit that part after seeing trentonlf's post, my bad.
However, looks like I'm back to being right.

Never seen a forest fire in person, but seen some pretty crazy photos/videos. No one was injured hopefully?

-_- That is why I said trying.

What??
So, you have been saying that no lynch is bad and that our two options (for lynches) are AFP and Robbeasy. But you decide to switch form AFP just when we are actually close to a lynch, to vote for someone who you don't even think is scum, but instead dislike their play-style?
You just took a ride in the elevator up the scum-meter.

Alrighty, let me walk you through my reasoning here. First off: the goal of each individual town player is to lynch scum. The best way to do that is to, when you (you in the general sense) see something that looks scummy, convince other town players that it is scummy and therefore lynch the scum. If your goal isn't to convince people, why post at all? No, your arguments were not magically persuasive. They were simply persuasive (which, if you are town, should be a good thing. You're TRYING to persuade other townies to lynch the person you feel is scum.)

Your arguments weren't just "suddenly not persuasive". After reading through the thread again with a more open mind I disagreed with you. I thought your arguments were a strawman. I didn't see JMich being as scummy as you made him out to be. That's the whole point in a re-read is it not? To look at things with a fresh perspective? That's what I did, and in doing so, I changed my mind.

The reason I then cast doubt on you should be clear. Once I looked at your arguments a second time, I saw that they weren't very good, and I had been taken in by them before (which is entirely my own fault - not some magical voodoo of yours). So then my next logical step was to wonder, "why would he be trying to convince townies to lynch someone on such poor arguments?" If you were town, you wouldn't be. Therefore, my finger of suspicion.

Since then, you have basically laughed at what I have been saying with no regard to any reasoning I have given. THAT'S a very un-townie move.

If I'm lynched, everyone please analyze my wagon carefully, cause I honestly haven't seen very many good reasons for the votes on me. The best I saw was HyperSonic here and he didn't even vote for me. Basically I agree, my actions have not been very benefiting to town, and if I were to continue to play the way I have been, by all means lynch me! You'll be better off! But saying (as yogsloth is) "Lynch him because he was persuaded by my arguments" (which, should have been MEANT to persuade) is completely bogus.

At this point, because of his continued strawmanning of everything that I say I'm going to
Unvote Leonard03
Vote yogsloth

I still think Leonard is scum, but there's a chance yogsloth could be lynched whereas it doesn't look like anyone's gonna be lynching Leonard anytime soon, and right now I'm pretty dang convinced that he (yogsloth) is scum. (This could be OMGUS, but I don't think so. I think my reasoning is sound.)

@Flub what are your thoughts on the on who is scum and why? If you wouldn't mind sharing.

Also, since this won't make me particularly a target for scum,

I'm the town JOAT.

What sort of information and conversation did you hope to get? The arguments you used to place a vote on me after I shared some thoughts about you, made it look more like you were just trying to get back at me. I have to agree with yogsloth that it didn't hit the mark.

Which now brings me to your next post:


In the same post that you express your disagreement of lynching innocent players for information, you vote yogsloth, who you don't think is scum, to be lynched because you don't like his play-style?

And you do it when A_Future_Pilot is at L-1? Where you put him a few hours earlier? And after that little speech about D1 dragging out?

If this is supposed to be another gambit, then I'm sorry to say that neither the content nor the timing is doing you any favours.


Does being smart make one infallible and automatically capable of playing a 100% spotless game? As I said to adaliabooks, this is practically my second game, which means that I'm lacking "on the field" experience and am still learning.
No hidden agenda behind my comments on the subject of softclaiming; you, and everyone else, are of course entitled to your own impressions and opinion at this point.

But I find three things interesting:

- You were the only one I named? Not sure where all these others are? Odd, I named the others in my post #223. The same post in which I asked you for clarification.,And the same post you replied to with your post #227. Am I to assume that you skipped the part of my post that wasn't specifically addressed to you? Wouldn't that be doing the same thing you've accused yogsloth, Bookwyrm627, and A_Future_Pilot of doing?

- You missed the point of why I named you in my post #375. I read a number of posts as softclaiming. I asked you for clarification, and took that also as softclaiming. The reason I mentioned you in my "A couple of other thoughts" section was because I found it very odd that you of all people (who is so vehemently against talking about roles in general) would join the softclaiming game.
The paragraph about you was not a preface to the second on, and I didn't name anyone in the second one because I had already done that in my post #223.

- So, what I did was not "townie behaviour", but what you've been doing ever since I made my comments about you is?


Not to read the latests posts.

Due to some personal issues that will take me away from being able to devote the time necessary to the game I have asked to be replaced. I apologize if this causes any problems, but it will be 2 weeks to a month before I would be able to play properly and that's too long. Nothing to be concerned about, it's just my focus will be elsewhere.


@Hyper, when I placed my vote on you it was truly random.org (I would have put a vote on whatever name popped up) that picked your name and I swear on my fathers grave that's 100% true.



Good luck to everyone and remember to have fun!

In post #314 I said this:

[i]Easing back into the light is not worth it.

All of the “lists” are nice. I’m not much for them myself, but I would like to contribute.
I’ve always found JMich as inscrutable as the sphinx. I read what he posts and look for truth vs. lie. His banter with yogsloth looks to me like town violence; much like my waltz with Bookwyrm627.

Robbeasy has screwed up. Now whether it is as a townie or scum we’ll never know until death. It is a shadow of doubt which flavors all of what I read from him. I am willing to move my vote in order to secure a lynch. But I will have nagging doubts.

Leonard03 is just giving me so much scum vibe. His mild lurking combined with posts which seem crafted is why I insinuated his association with Robbeasy. Of course I have no evidence, but pushing such suspicions is what this game is about. At this point your play is scummier than Robbeasy.

My thoughts on Bookwyrm627 have softened somewhat. I think it helps to view that through the way A_Future_Pilot posted in post #310. I really like this post. It shows an ebb and flow to the days. Town Points for that!!

HypersomniacLive and cristigale both play a lurky game. However the content of their posts and the scrutiny they place on other players seems quite town.[/i]

To add to that I would only say I don't find A_Future_Pilot particularly scummy. That is to say I can't justify a vote for him except to guarantee a lynch instead of a no lynch.

I do like HypersomniacLive and cristigale even though they tend toward the less active.

I now have adaliabooks, Lifthrasil, JMich, trentonlf, HijacK as neutral leaning toward town.

All others, myself excluded, are leaning toward the scummy to neutral scummy side of the scale.

I am sorro to hear you are leaving us Trent but my thoughts are with you that whatever is going on is resolves and good things are coming. =)


@A_Future_Pilot why did you request to be JOAT?

Because it seemed like a fun role. The one-shot redirection could be useful in the later game. I'm planning on opening a chat with someone (if I'm still around) in a day or two (in-game days) when I have a pretty good idea of who's town. It's just another avenue for discussion that would be interesting to have.

WHAT? You hop off a wagon on someone you think scummy, at L-1 to boot, to vote for someone who you think is town? And only for a pathetic 'I don't like you(r playstyle)' reason? This is very, very scummy behaviour! I am sorry that you are leaving this game, but your replacement is going to have a very difficult start, because unfortunately your behaviour points strongly to scum ... and the role or affiliation will not change with the replacement.

I really think that we now HAVE to lynch AFP (sorry AFP, especially if I am wrong). If he turns out to be scum, we'll have to look very closely at trent's replacement, because trent's behaviour is pure stalling and trying to avoid AFP's lynch for bad reasons. Maybe that was only erratic play due to personal reasons. But maybe we really do have a scumbuddy pair here.

And if AFP turns out to be town, well, then I was wrong and I will be the one under scrutiny for pushing this train. But that's OK, I still think it is the right thing to do for town. And about AFP's role claim: the problem is, the role doesn't tell us much. AFP could as well be a scum JOAT. Or not a JOAT at all. True, there are more powerful roles for scum to bid for, but we can't be really sure about any role/faction correlation in this game.

Also: flubbucket, what was your reason not to vote AFP?