Let's get this out of the way

Unvote HypersomniacLive
Vote A_Future_Pilot

I still find Robb's action and slips to be scummy and his woe is me post an attempt to appear contrite and garner sympathy. As for A_Future_Pilot he has been very erratic in his behavior, jumping all over the place and changing his mind on who to vote for on a whim it seems at times. I'm not convinced by his "I didn't realize yog's was influencing me" reasoning, Lifts post 293 was a good breakdown of how A_Future_Pilot has been acting and I agree with his assessment so have no problem placing my vote on A_Future_Pilot.

Now onto my crazy post. I assure you there was no "tantrum" being thrown or protecting anyones ass. I was in no way upset or distraught, this is a game after all. I have only been upset one time and that was last game when I took something personally I shouldn't have. The whole reason behind my post is the same thing from any post I do, I am looking for information, gauging reactions, and trying to stimulate conversation.

What I found most interesting is only 3 people even gave a second glance at the crazy post I did, people should have been all over me and putting votes on me. But that is the issue we are facing, people are hesitant to to say too much or place votes (this has gotten better to a degree). It's been 9 real life days and we are still in day 1 of the game, no real good reason for that. Granted day 1 sucks because there is so little to go on, but since there is so little to go on we have to take a chance or we will have a no lynch or a scum manipulated lynch and that does not benefit town at all.

I will also say this, adaliabooks hit my thoughts right on the head in post 375. HypersomniacLive is a very smart player that I would not see as trying to get someone setup to be lynched or NKd unless he had an agenda in mind. In post 347 when he list his "A couple of other thoughts" talking about people soft claiming making them unlynchable and setting them up to be targets for a NK. The oddest part is I am the only name he mentions as far as "soft claiming" goes and there was never any soft claiming on my part. This is not townie behavior, this smells of scum trying to lay the foundation for a "see I told you they shouldn't have soft claimed it got him killed" (and I only saw one person soft claim, not sure where all these "soft claims" Hyper alludes to are at). I could be totally wrong on this read, but it seemed a very odd thing to say if he is town.

Wow, I'm surprised things have slowed down so much over the weekend, personally I have more time now.
Anyway by my count A_Future_Pilot is now at lynch minus two. I'm trying to figure out what his flip will tells us about yogsloth. Will a scum flip mean yogsloth is town? Is it too unlikely that they were scum buddies? yogsloth is voting for him now, but only after the train stated gaining steam. It's all WIFOM I guess.

Just seemed like another frustrated player to me. I lean more to giving people the benefit of the doubt, which might not be so good in this game.

No sense in getting frustrated, it's better to have fun and enjoy it ;-)

Unofficially I count L-1

Lifthrasil, Robbeasy, adaliabooks, yogsloth, Leonard03, cristigale, trentonlf (7)


Should there be a role claim before a hammer?? Have I made an error??

I think part of it is several players seem to check out during the weekend. I noticed your post last night, but I couldn’t get my own posts correct and decided to call it night. In combination with Sage’s post, I did wonder if there was something in the kool-aid. ;-)

I’m in the same boat, much more time during the weekend. Depending on the week, it can be a challenge to post on some weekdays. At least this coming week looks better than the last.

I'm sure you're just busy defending the Horde from Alliance scum...

Geez, no time at all today, so this will be painfully quick.

First note - yay firefighters! Fire is out, and has been since early morning. The haze is horrible and the smell is worse, but no structures were damaged.

OK, some quick notes:

I'm coming to realize some things are just different for me... I hear stuff like this, and I just disagree. I keep getting accused of scum-like behavior for things that to me seem utterly Town, like discussion of the game mechanics. Getting people talking (even if it's about, GASP, roles!), to me, is 100% pro-town. The conventional wisdom is that talking about roles is pro-scum. Why? I'm writing up my challenge to that wisdom and nailing it to the church door. Mass role-claim almost always benefits Town, because it forces scum to lie. Not as applicable in this particular game, but simple discussion of something game-related forces scum to come out and react... and that's how you catch 'em.

So it is with vote-hopping. As the man says, "Your weapon is your vote". I have no ability to understand a line of thought that utterly refusing to vote until you are near 100% certain (which is absurd) is somehow pro-town, and using your vote for all the different possible purposes it has isn’t. Voting applies pressure. Voting provokes a response. Voting causes other players to respond to the vote. All of those things provide information, and town wins with information. Scum wins with obscurity. Vote early, vote often… that is pro-Town.

Yeah, dude, if that was supposed to save your bacon it didn’t do it. So my arguments were utterly, magically persuasive, until they suddenly weren’t? And that then made ME scummy? What the hell, bro?

Totally agree. Wily veteran, that bucket-o-flub. Townie amusing himself? Scum changing up his game? Inscrutable master of the uneven. How did flub manage to shuck-and-jive all Day and not attract much attention? We must watch this one carefully.

Well, I would have if I had been available to post in the last 24 hours. But both Lift and HSL (who continues to rock out with his… ya know, out, uh) covered it pretty well. The fact that it turns out it was a gambit… I dunno man, I think it missed the mark. All it really did was make you look like either scum or clueless Town. I don’t think that helped you much either way. Isn’t the conventional wisdom that Townies shouldn’t try ballsie gambits, for exactly this reason?

Oh, yeah, totally! I can’t wait to find out if I’m scum or not. Flipping AFP will finally let us all know, right?

Usually. Not sure if it makes a diff in this case, though. Can’t really make up “Exploding Ham Sandwich” or “Flatulent Dwarf Detector” or whatever adalia would have come up with this time. Give him a chance, let’s see what happens.

Ironic this comes from the guy that thought I was Vengeful and felt like sharing that with everybody like it was a bottle of Coke.

How exactly does this make any sense when the very same thing HSL admits to is that scum may use that to sow confusion based on his very comment? People accuse me of nitpicking, but this is a whole new level.

There was a very old advice about swords that said "Do not draw your sword unless you are prepared to bloody it". There is a similar advice about firearms that says "Do not point your gun at someone unless you are prepared to shoot them". If you draw your weapon at the drop of the hat, then say "Oh sorry, I'm just going to holster it now", it reduces the value of the action by quite a lot.
So, for the vote as a weapon now. If I change my vote every 20 posts, how is that applying pressure? Whoever gets my vote would know that they only have to wait a bit, and the vote would move. No need for them to do anything to defend themselves. If on the other hand my vote would stay with them, at least until something major happens, then that is a vote that applies pressure.

Oh, and I don't want near 100% certainty, but I do want betting odds. So 60%-75% certainty, depending on how many are left.

Not that I don't believe what you wrote, since I know you often place baits, traps, or make posts to gauge reactions, but ffs, you get a free pass for that (except yog, lift and hsl) and I get trash talked for my troll bait? Man, this is some bull shit! This is 'cause I'm from Eastern Europe.

That is not the only post in which he noted people who were soft claiming and you are not the only one whom he named. Earlier in the game he also pointed to me and Robb, if I am not mistaken (could be though), as people who softclaimed, though I didn't combat the claim since I didn't feel it was required.

Or maybe he busing AFP to gain credibility. I'm not saying it's the case. All I'm saying is that it is always a possibility, and I totally can see him doing it after in a previous game he vehemently accused me of busing a scumbuddy when I was town.

This or maybe the coffee machine broke that morning. Just joking you guys!

Pls, I'm a human holy paly. I can heal BWL NP.

I stand as the prime example that when people vote on me, literally most of the time are beyond ridiculous and the speed at which votes come, votes which have little more than "I think....maybe....I don't know....let's go with it" train of thought, is utterly moronic.

This is OMGUS and derailing from the direction of the game on very flimsy basis. I don't like it. Not to mention Yog already stated that this game IS NOT the case of a mass claim since scum don't have to lie about their roles and then be checked. Not to mention I am not a fan of this adalia style of voting. Get rid of someone's playstyle you don't like. If that was the case, I'd get rid of half of the players here. Seriously. Some of those styles thought patterns are preposterous.

Here's the quote:

Emphasis mine.

Well... now that you mention it ;-)

Is that really you? :o

I'll see you at this summer's Blizzcon! O_O

Outstanding!!

Eyebrows as a weapon....neato

You are entirely right, there is no situation where a mass role claim isn't beneficial to town because it invariably leaves scum to claim last (so they don't claim something which already exists) and claim odd roles because all the real roles are taken. Mass claiming day 1 would probably guarantee a town win, but the more important question is; would that be any fun?
I've played scum twice now, and it's hard. Really hard, no matter how it may seem the odds are stacked in towns favour, if it were any more difficult for scum (or easy for town) to win I wouldn't bother playing.
Admittedly mass role claiming, while possibly not within the spirit of the game, is entirely within the rules and therefore it's up to the mod to devise a set up that makes it less effective (which, incidentally, I believe this one does)

I completely disagree about vote hopping. If you vote and unvote regularly (then as JMich pointed out) your vote is worthless. It applies no pressure because the person you are voting for knows you'll move on to the next target soon enough. And hopping from one building wagon to another is a definite scum tactic, trying to push any wagon with a chance of success is hugely beneficial to scum because it can leave a townie quickly lynched with out much discussion or chance for a role reveal etc. which is obviously good for scum.

Some day I'll get a really odd role and no one will believe me when I claim... :(
I particularly like the sound of 'Flatulent Dwarf Detector' though, I think that'll be my claim next time I'm scum.

That's a completely different situation, I saw a situation which I thought would be detrimental to town so I pointed out to avoid the risk of losing town players unnecessarily.

Because it's exactly the kind of thing I would expect scum to do. By saying what he did he's covered his back, but he's left himself room to push for trent's lynch anyway.