rjbuffchix: Reality determines what is true. If a Statement X plainly matches a textbook logical fallacy, the (drumroll please...)
reasonable thing to do is conclude that Statement X is logically fallacious. If someone uses Statement X as proof of their position, it would not be reasonable to accept their position on those grounds. They'd need to find different, non-fallacious reasoning, in order to support their position. It's not a matter of discrediting them; it's a matter of demanding intellectual honesty and proof. Their position may end up being reasonable to hold IF they can provide non-fallacious reasoning. Or, in cases where the position is simply a re-statement of a logical fallacy, and there are no non-fallacious grounds that could ever be used to support it, it would not ever be reasonable to hold.
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I know you are referring to all extreme positions across various topics, not just on DRM. I am saying you are demonstrably wrong to say that taking an extreme position is unreasonable. I don't care what goofball you encountered that led you to believe otherwise. Most people are "extremist" in their position of various other topics. For example, how much slavery or serial killing do you believe is acceptable in society? Hopefully you would join me in answering "zero!" instead of "uh, about 50 percent give or take, don't wanna jump to any firm conclusions here" (except the supposed superiority of moderation. THAT conclusion you do like to jump to). DRM itself may not be on the level of those wrongs though I would also point out that DRM is a symptom of the issue of ownership of property, which is a very important societal issue.
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My main question to you is to ask why you are invalidating the preferences of these "extremist" gamers who don't want to buy from Steam? Even if I were to join you and say "yeah, they're just being dumb extremists for being that way", that doesn't "speak them out of existence". Since these gamers do exist, how about acknowledgement of that? What I question on the part of developers and publishers is why they make the downright STUPID business decision to only sell on Steam instead of Steam+other stores, with the other stores being ones that so-called "extremist" DRM-free gamers would find it acceptable to buy from. One would have to assume that these are lost sales they could have otherwise had. The game in this topic literally fits this description for me.
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Not true. There are plenty of people who would indeed change their opinion upon finding out that information. Just like there are people who do not buy from companies that test on animals. Just like there are people who disown an artist's work after the fact, when new information about the artist's personal life comes to light. I am not saying all of these people are right for doing so, but unlike you I am not handwaving away their existence. In many cases, their actions reflect them trying to be logically consistent with their beliefs. I think you could still learn something from them (not intended as an insult, btw). The part they often get wrong is if their belief itself is not founded on logical reasoning. THAT is where they go wrong, not the "extremism" of trying to be logically consistent and intellectually honest.
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Let's hope for more games to come to stores that even the crustiest extremist DRM-free gamer can find acceptable. That is a much better path than to just marginalize people even more.
To most it's one own version of reality(determined by many factors like beliefs/cognitive dissonance and how it plays into one's perceptions/upbringing and knowledge sources/etc).
Also one can THINK something matches said definition due to the aforementioned factors and be wrong yet think it matches it anyways to maintain their own belief set and not have to deal with something clashing with their own beliefs or to not have to deal with a part of a conversation(not saying you are doing this, but generally speaking/etc).
I agree one should find better reasoning if they use wrong information if they can, but for some even the best examples/proof won't sway them regardless of what one brings to the table.
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First off i'd like to say
I MEANT CENTRIST(or rational....but not moderate). Sorry for that mix up.
As for the more hardcore extremists(in general).....most are not very reasonable(imo) as they are usually set in their ways and not up to change, unlike with centrists/more rational minded people who are usually up to have their minds/stances changed more easily.
Also an aside: Are you trying to equate some problem with owning stuff in general here? If so, why is it wrong(in general)?
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My question would be why you think i'm trying to invalidate them entirely(or why the thought of such is such a big deal in general)? I just see those holding some more "stubborn" views and not being open to change as being less reasonable than others.
I also do acknowledge they exist(when did I ever infer otherwise?), as well, and I think games should be sold DRM free whenever possible/the such people should be able to play such.
I also, however(as I said) find some who don't partake in some parts of culture to "stick it to the man" for this or that to be a bit stubborn/closeminded, though I ALSO admire them for sticking to said beliefs(which takes dedication/etc).
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They might not buy said products or services when they find out something bad about said company or product, but they likely still like that kind of thing(game/media/product) in general.....one's likes don't usually go away simply because a product is made by someone who did something they find bad or wrong....they usually simply choose to like the product but not the maker or their actions/choices....hence many here and elsewhere who say stuff like "I wish game/media x or y was on service a or b or had no 1 or 2 feature(in this case DRM) & then i;'d gladly buy it".
They usually/mostly don't say they dislike that thing, just that they won't partake until it is changed to fit their criteria for purchase.
Btw I am not handwaving away anyone's existance....I just don't think many exist(and if they do it's very few) who dislike something ENTIRELY because it's maker did something they dislike. A person who likes red cars with a set style can and will like a red car made by a company they dislike...but usually they will say they don't or(more often) say they do but refuse to buy until company a changes it's ways or what they disliked initially.
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There's other options too......some drm-free gamers could also buy games and strip out the drm themselves and/or buy used or in a deep sale to avoid giving those companies much money while still being able to avoid such.
I agree more DRM free is a good thing, though, for all involved.
