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hedwards: It's not really a pet peeve here. Feminism is a huge issue in America at the present.
So is sexism and hate speech on the internet, in the other sides' perception.
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Breja: By the way, you all know there is a new Predator movie in the works, right?
I have to wonder who they would replace Schwarzenegger with, because he's iconic for a few roles, one being in Predator and the other being Terminator. I really am not sure if someone else could step into those shoes and convey it properly.

Heh... And with all the CGI, i don't know how it would turn out.
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Breja: By the way, you all know there is a new Predator movie in the works, right?
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rtcvb32: I have to wonder who they would replace Schwarzenegger with, because he's iconic for a few roles, one being in Predator and the other being Terminator. I really am not sure if someone else could step into those shoes and convey it properly.
And Conan. I still hope the Legend of Conan with him as old King Conan on his last adventure will get made. It's been circling around ever since returned to acting.

Still, I quite liked Predators, and Adrien Brody was about as unlikely replacement for Arnold as possible. And even Predator 2 is quite alright. So I don't have much of an issue with a Predator movie without Schwarzenegger.
Post edited March 05, 2016 by Breja
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hedwards: It's not really a pet peeve here. Feminism is a huge issue in America at the present.
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Leroux: So is sexism and hate speech on the internet, in the other sides' perception.
No, those are not problems on the internet. You're confusing sexism and hate speech with trolling. It's a completely different problem.

At least not on the English speaking internet. Perhaps on parts of the internet where other languages are being spoken it's a problem. But, in all the years I've been online, I have never seen those things to be a common problem from anybody that wasn't clearly trolling.

Unless of course, you're referring to feminists engaging in sexist tirades about killing all men and such. That's something I've seen quite often.
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Leroux: So is sexism and hate speech on the internet, in the other sides' perception.
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hedwards: No, those are not problems on the internet. You're confusing sexism and hate speech with trolling. It's a completely different problem.

At least not on the English speaking internet. Perhaps on parts of the internet where other languages are being spoken it's a problem. But, in all the years I've been online, I have never seen those things to be a common problem from anybody that wasn't clearly trolling.

Unless of course, you're referring to feminists engaging in sexist tirades about killing all men and such. That's something I've seen quite often.
So how do you know that those man-hating feminists or any comments along the lines of "you only criticize this because you're sexist" aren't just out to troll you as well?
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Wishbone: Yeah, I agree. Also, part of what made the original great (in my opinion at least) was that the main characters were played straight, that is, while they had some odd personality quirks, they reacted believably to the events that transpired, without any gross feats of overacting purely for comedic effect.

In this one they seem to have deliberately copied the original characters, but exaggerated their quirks and turned their behavior up to 11, and I don't think that is going to work well.

Also, while Winston Zeddmore may have been the "token black character" in the original, and didn't really have any impact on the story, he was at least believably portrayed, and was basically "just a guy who happened to be black". The Patty Tolan character in the new one...? Oh boy, the writers and director seem to have gone all-in on the Shithead O'Neal female black stereotype, just to get some cheap laughs. *sigh*

Yes, it might not be as awful a movie as the trailer makes it seem, but a worthy successor to the 1984 original? Not a chance.
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hedwards: Winston was kind of an interesting choice. He was really the character that was meant to help us relate to what was going on because even the "straight" man Bill Murray was rather quirky.

And yes, he was an actual black character rather than a stereotype or a caricature. It would be nice to see more characters like that showing up in movies.

On the bright side, it'll probably do wonders for GB2s reputation.
This is a reason I'm glad it was Ernie Hudson and not Eddie Murphy. While I think Eddie Murphy would have done an adequate job as Winston. The character would have been completely different.
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hedwards: Winston was kind of an interesting choice. He was really the character that was meant to help us relate to what was going on because even the "straight" man Bill Murray was rather quirky.

And yes, he was an actual black character rather than a stereotype or a caricature. It would be nice to see more characters like that showing up in movies.

On the bright side, it'll probably do wonders for GB2s reputation.
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lepke1979: This is a reason I'm glad it was Ernie Hudson and not Eddie Murphy. While I think Eddie Murphy would have done an adequate job as Winston. The character would have been completely different.
Reitman and Ramis discussed that on the dvd commentary. Winston had been introduced to act as a POV for the audience, since in the early versions of the script the 3 main ghostbusters had already been established and were fighting ghosts when the story began. They retconned it to be more a 'going into business' story. Winston served as the ignorant audience who needed to be educated into all the paranormal silliness that was suddenly intruding into reality. He was the 'everyman' character who had the benefit of being able say 'WTF is going on here?'

So yes, there was a time when women or minorities were put into movies to serve purposes other than film industry quotas. But that was back before the dark times, before the empire.
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hedwards: No, those are not problems on the internet. You're confusing sexism and hate speech with trolling. It's a completely different problem.

At least not on the English speaking internet. Perhaps on parts of the internet where other languages are being spoken it's a problem. But, in all the years I've been online, I have never seen those things to be a common problem from anybody that wasn't clearly trolling.

Unless of course, you're referring to feminists engaging in sexist tirades about killing all men and such. That's something I've seen quite often.
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Leroux: So how do you know that those man-hating feminists or any comments along the lines of "you only criticize this because you're sexist" aren't just out to troll you as well?
The use of an ad hominem doesn't determine whether it's trolling or not, it's just bad logic.

Trolls are in it for the lulz and really nothing else. They don't organize and rarely, if ever, do they step away from the internet to do it. Typically they won't post their name or their picture and if nobody is biting they just move on to the next hot button.

That's not something that I think describes feminists very well. Yes, they do push buttons on purpose, but they do have an agenda and if people ignore their agenda the only change that happens is that they push the same one further and further.

I've personally seen feminists make the same arguments I see in those online videos and blog posts in person. I've seen the glee in their eyes when there was that report years back about manufacturing sperm out of two eggs and completely leaving out the men.

When it comes down to it, it's pretty damn clear that most, if not all, of the women tweeting and releasing videos about killing all men, or trying to get people like thunderf00t fired are being serious about it.

I don't see that kind of seriousness with those people that are allegedly being sexist online. You'll see it occasionally in the comment section of newspaper websites, but those are almost entirely flamewars and trolling, I don't think anybody in their right mind would give it the level of attention necessary to call it sexist. It's not, it's trolling.
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lepke1979: This is a reason I'm glad it was Ernie Hudson and not Eddie Murphy. While I think Eddie Murphy would have done an adequate job as Winston. The character would have been completely different.
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Emob78: Reitman and Ramis discussed that on the dvd commentary. Winston had been introduced to act as a POV for the audience, since in the early versions of the script the 3 main ghostbusters had already been established and were fighting ghosts when the story began. They retconned it to be more a 'going into business' story. Winston served as the ignorant audience who needed to be educated into all the paranormal silliness that was suddenly intruding into reality. He was the 'everyman' character who had the benefit of being able say 'WTF is going on here?'

So yes, there was a time when women or minorities were put into movies to serve purposes other than film industry quotas. But that was back before the dark times, before the empire.
I'm not sure you can call that a retcon, but that doesn't surprise me at all. I can't imagine the movie working without him.
Post edited March 05, 2016 by hedwards
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Leroux: So how do you know that those man-hating feminists or any comments along the lines of "you only criticize this because you're sexist" aren't just out to troll you as well?
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hedwards: The use of an ad hominem doesn't determine whether it's trolling or not, it's just bad logic.

Trolls are in it for the lulz and really nothing else. They don't organize and rarely, if ever, do they step away from the internet to do it. Typically they won't post their name or their picture and if nobody is biting they just move on to the next hot button.

That's not something that I think describes feminists very well. Yes, they do push buttons on purpose, but they do have an agenda and if people ignore their agenda the only change that happens is that they push the same one further and further.

I've personally seen feminists make the same arguments I see in those online videos and blog posts in person. I've seen the glee in their eyes when there was that report years back about manufacturing sperm out of two eggs and completely leaving out the men.

When it comes down to it, it's pretty damn clear that most, if not all, of the women tweeting and releasing videos about killing all men, or trying to get people like thunderf00t fired are being serious about it.

I don't see that kind of seriousness with those people that are allegedly being sexist online. You'll see it occasionally in the comment section of newspaper websites, but those are almost entirely flamewars and trolling, I don't think anybody in their right mind would give it the level of attention necessary to call it sexist. It's not, it's trolling.
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Emob78: Reitman and Ramis discussed that on the dvd commentary. Winston had been introduced to act as a POV for the audience, since in the early versions of the script the 3 main ghostbusters had already been established and were fighting ghosts when the story began. They retconned it to be more a 'going into business' story. Winston served as the ignorant audience who needed to be educated into all the paranormal silliness that was suddenly intruding into reality. He was the 'everyman' character who had the benefit of being able say 'WTF is going on here?'

So yes, there was a time when women or minorities were put into movies to serve purposes other than film industry quotas. But that was back before the dark times, before the empire.
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hedwards: I'm not sure you can call that a retcon, but that doesn't surprise me at all. I can't imagine the movie working without him.
I was trying to use hip words, keep in touch with the cool kids on the street.

Hollywood would just call it a re-write.
The worst thing about this trailer on youtube is that it has received so many dislikes that Sony company made alt accounts just to "Like" the video. And people are calling out Sony on that corrupt practice.
Why did I like that trailer and look forward to the movie? ppl on the interwebs say it is bad and I have to dislike it :(
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anothername: Why did I like that trailer and look forward to the movie? ppl on the interwebs say it is bad and I have to dislike it :(
Did you see the original movie? Part of the problem is that it's nothing like the other movies. And part of it is that the jokes aren't very good.
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anothername: Why did I like that trailer and look forward to the movie? ppl on the interwebs say it is bad and I have to dislike it :(
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hedwards: Did you see the original movie? Part of the problem is that it's nothing like the other movies. And part of it is that the jokes aren't very good.
Of course. I admit its about half a decade when I last saw them. I always liked the Ghostbusters. Would not go so far of saying I'm a fan but I saw the two original movies about 3 times each.

About the trailer: I did indeed liked it. I did not geeked out or jumped the seat screaming "about bloody time". The ghosts looked like what I could expect from a GB movie; I liked the changes on the classic OST; the cast looks likable. Whats IMO disappointing is that appears to have no reference to the original team besides the "30y ago 4 scientists" intro one-liner. But that might be because its just a trailer.
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Breja: And even Predator 2 is quite alright.
At 10 years old that was a pretty cool movie. Still missed Arnie though.
Just saw it for the first time (had to buy some more data first). It's horrible.