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General discussionGetting back to our roots(1418 posts)(1418 posts)
(1418 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 11, 2014
Hey, GOGgers,

We're not perfect, we're exploring new frontiers, and we make mistakes. We thought DRM-Free was so important that you'd prefer we bring you more DRM-Free games and Fair Price was less critical and that it could be sacrificed in some cases. The last two week's worth of comments in our forums (nearly 10k!), show that's not the case. We didn’t listen and we let you down. We shouldn't sacrifice one of our core values in an attempt to advance another. We feel bad about that, and we're sorry. Us being sorry is not of much use to you, so let’s talk about how we will fix it.

One: DRM-free forever. Abandoning fixed regional pricing means it will probably take longer to get some games, but you've made it clear that sacrificing fair pricing for more DRM-free games isn't acceptable.

Two: We will adamantly continue to fight for games with flat worldwide pricing. If that fails and we are required to have regional prices, we will make up the difference for you out of our own pockets. For now it will be with $5.99 and $9.99 game codes. In a couple of months, once we have such functionality implemented, we will give you store credit instead, which then you will be able to use towards any purchase and cover the price of it in full or partially. Effectively gamers from all around the world will be able to benefit from the US prices.

This will apply to every single game where we do not have flat pricing, such as Age of Wonders 3 (full details here), Divinity: Original Sin, and The Witcher 3. If you remember the Fair Price Package for The Witcher 2, this will be exactly the same.

Three: We still intend to introduce the pricing in local currencies. Let us explain why we want to do it and how we want to make it fair for everyone. From the very beginning our intention was to make things easier for users whose credit cards/payment systems are not natively in USD. The advantages are simple because the price is more understandable and easier to relate to. There would be no exchange rates involved, no transaction fees, and no other hidden charges. However after reading your comments, we realized we have taken an important element away: the choice. In order to fix this, we'll offer the option of paying in the local currency or the equivalent in USD. This way, how you pay is always your choice.

Four: You are what matters, and we will be sure to involve you all more in what we're doing and why we're doing it. Let's start by meeting you at GDC - we’d like to invite you to meet us face-to-face Monday the 17th at GDC. Obviously, not all of you can come to San Francisco, so we want to invite all of you to an online event with us early in April to ask us whatever you would like. More details soon.

The bottom line is simple: there may be companies that won't work with us (although we will work hard to convince the most stubborn ones ;). Yes, it means we might miss out on some games, but at the same time GOG.com will remain true to its values and will keep on offering you the best of DRM-free gaming with Fair Prices.

Once again thank you for caring so much about GOG.com. We will work hard not to disappoint you again.

--Marcin "iWi" Iwinski & Guillaume "TheFrenchMonk" Rambourg
Posted March 12, 2014
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teknomedic: i have over 646 games on gog.... perhaps when you have that many youll be wanting a larger library over saving few dollars too. just a thought.
Holy crap, that's just about all of them! No wonder you want more - you're out of options.
Posted March 12, 2014
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shadowbaneaxe: Except there's no rarity when it comes to digitally downloadable games (except on the Insomnia sale). And would you really pay 30% extra? The differences were just too great if you ask me.
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teknomedic: its rare to legally own said drm free copy of the game if rights owners refuses to sell on gog because gog cant afford to cover the extra overhead costs because you wanted to save $3 off the $13 game to keep it $9.99.

I get what you're saying.... but yes...I would pay $13 or 30% increase from $10 to have an even larger library of games to choose from.

let me reverse it..... will you still be happy buying $10 games if they never added another game to the gog library?..... or say... could only afford to negotiate for one new game a year?

know what I want.... a GOG plius....,them you can stay on gog classic and pay lower prices for a limited catalog and ill pay the higher prices to own games that will never be released on gog classic.

i have over 646 games on gog.... perhaps when you have that many youll be wanting a larger library over saving few dollars too. just a thought.
Since you have 646 games, it also means you can afford them, and the message itself says very clearly that the principle is irrelevant for you, so yeah, I guess it's not a problem from where you're standing now. But do try to imagine that you're living in, say, a poorer EU country, have a mere fraction of the income, legally purchasing something as... optional as a game is already an effort, largely made as a show of support, and yet you are asked to pay 38% more (since that's the actual difference now, not 30%) just because some publishers and the retail stores they work with (and which probably largely operate in the wealthier countries anyway) are assholes. Then tell me how good you'd still be feeling about this.

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teknomedic: that doesn't make my point invalid though.

gog themselves stated that some games may be delayed or never come out now because of this.

...how are you ok with that?
I'm very much OK with that because those games are games that shouldn't be purchased legally. Sure, you may play them if you want to (though I'd be looking at that backlog first if I were you!), but why the hell would you be fair to those who aren't fair themselves?
Post edited March 12, 2014 by Cavalary
Posted March 12, 2014
I went to a customer service seminar last year. The rule is no longer: "The customer is always right." It is: "The customer is always first." The GOG staff has proven, through these recent negotiations and feedback trials, that they embrace the mantra of "The customer is always first." The concerns on all sides are legitimate, but ultimately, the GOG staff knew in their hearts what needed to be done to do right by the world.

From the ashes of the second pillar, a new one rises. When you embrace justice, your positive thoughts and your kin will always be reborn anew, like a phoenix. No matter how long it takes, it will always happen.

The four pillars are in unison once more, and the legend of an intrepid band of adventurers called "GOG" yet continues.
Posted March 12, 2014
high rated
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teknomedic: let me reverse it..... will you still be happy buying $10 games if they never added another game to the gog library?..... or say... could only afford to negotiate for one new game a year?
That's an extremely hypothethical question, because GOG isn't running out of games anytime soon. Even if they wouldn't find any more of the really old games from the 90's that they could release under their conditions, with each year that passes more newer games are getting old, too, and there won't be a shortage of new indie games either. It's not really about enlarging the catalogue, but about including different types of games. And even then, GOG hasn't really shut the door for regionally priced releases, they just set themselves an incentive to drive a harder bargain.

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teknomedic: i have over 646 games on gog.... perhaps when you have that many youll be wanting a larger library over saving few dollars too. just a thought.
I think the main reason why many people reject the regional pricing is not about saving a few dollars, but because the way it's usually done in the gaming industry privileges a few countries and discriminates unreasonably against others with a similar purchasing power, so it's seen as an unfair practice that GOG should not support, and also because this regional pricing thing is dividing GOG's international community which was always a part of what makes GOG great (not to speak of any region locks potentially following in the wake of regional pricing).
Post edited March 12, 2014 by Leroux
Posted March 12, 2014
like I said... I understand that.

what im trying to understand is why youd rather have a more limited library of games for the sake of saving even $4 or $5??

....especially when you could have simply waited for a sale on the games once they were made available.

I guess I would have rather waited for a sale on the higher priced version of the game VS taking the chance that the game will never be released on gog.




....and I have 646+ games on gog thanks to the incredible sales, not because I have tons of money and paid full price for them all. ...on that note im concerned that well see less sales now too because of the extra money gog will be spending to keep rights owners and their customers both happy.
Posted March 12, 2014
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teknomedic: ...on that note im concerned that well see less sales now too because of the extra money gog will be spending to keep rights owners and their customers both happy.
Less 50%-80% off deals and bundles, most likely, but probably also no less 20%-40% off deals and bundles. Still a significantly better deal than console game players could ever hope for.
Post edited March 12, 2014 by StickOfPlywood
Posted March 12, 2014
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teknomedic: let me reverse it..... will you still be happy buying $10 games if they never added another game to the gog library?..... or say... could only afford to negotiate for one new game a year?
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Leroux: That's an extremely hypothethical question, because GOG isn't running out of games anytime soon. Even if they wouldn't find any more of the really old games from the 90's that they could release under their conditions, with each year that passes more newer games are getting old, too, and there won't be a shortage of new indie games either. It's not really about enlarging the catalogue, but about including different types of games. And even then, GOG hasn't really shut the door for regionally priced releases, they just set themselves an incentive to drive a harder bargain.

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teknomedic: i have over 646 games on gog.... perhaps when you have that many youll be wanting a larger library over saving few dollars too. just a thought.
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Leroux: I think the main reason why many people reject the regional pricing is not about saving a few dollars, but because the way it's usually done in the gaming industry privileges a few countries and discriminates unreasonably against others with a similar purchasing power, so it's seen as an unfair practice that GOG should not support, and also because this regional pricing thing is dividing GOG's international community which was always a part of what makes GOG great (not to speak of any region locks potentially following in the wake of regional pricing).
that last thing you said was finally a real answer. since I live in the US I don't see many of the issues with international pricing. clearly theres more going on than im aware of... but wouldn't these issues be caused more by your government polices than greedy video game companies?
Posted March 12, 2014
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teknomedic: like I said... I understand that.

what im trying to understand is why youd rather have a more limited library of games for the sake of saving even $4 or $5??
And again:
a) As a matter of principle. GOG had flat pricing as a principle, they touted it left and right, they led a fight for that as much as for eliminating DRM, and I wasn't going to sit here while they meant to trample over it because the publishers told them to roll over.
b) The games that will not be added to the catalog because the publishers refuse to get rid of regional pricing (or to eat at least a part of the loss for making up for it, seeing as GOG never said they won't still allow regional pricing in this announcement, only that they'll make up for 100% of the difference, eventually in store credit instead of just codes) should not be legally bought, because that sort of practice must not be supported. So my problem is that such games may still be added, not that they won't be!

And off to bed.

PS: Even at some $3 each (which couldn't have been the case for all, but let's go with it), that number of games would still make for about $2000. That's a lot of money from where I'm standing!
Post edited March 12, 2014 by Cavalary
Posted March 12, 2014
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teknomedic: wouldn't these issues be caused more by your government polices than greedy video game companies?
Seeing as how many international modern government policies are increasingly dictated by the whims of wealthy free market moguls, (of which the United States is certainly no exception,) rather than the needs and markets of the citizens, it is practically impossible to affect such policies without exceptionally well-organized grassroots efforts.

Basically, the ethical choice of "one world price" is a more progressive policy than anything the majority of world governments today would ever adopt. It is significant that GOG has managed to maintain enough autonomy to be capable of making such a moral choice for themselves; a juggernaut (like Steam) could never attempt such policies. The whole idea of a business empire is akin to the 4X genre: Explore, Expand, Exploit, Exterminate. What does an emperor care for the will of the people?

The only ones who would care are those who shed the moniker of emperor in the first place. You can't be an emperor and do right by the world at the same time, you have to pick one or the other.
Post edited March 12, 2014 by StickOfPlywood
Posted March 12, 2014
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teknomedic: that doesn't make my point invalid though.

gog themselves stated that some games may be delayed or never come out now because of this.

...how are you ok with that?
For 5 years, GOG.com has brought us games(711 currently), even though a lot of existing games were "delayed" or "never come out" because DRM-free and flat pricing is not the industry standard.

Why are you worried about this now?
Post edited March 12, 2014 by Ichwillnichtmehr
Posted March 12, 2014
lol.... but that's only an average of about $500 a year since I joined or about 8 new games for a home console.

this is a hobby after all. I know there are people out there that spend twice that to fly a model air plane around a park.
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teknomedic: that doesn't make my point invalid though.

gog themselves stated that some games may be delayed or never come out now because of this.

...how are you ok with that?
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Ichwillnichtmehr: For 5 years, GOG.com has brought us games(711 currently), even though a lot of existing games were "delayed" or "never come out" because DRM-free and flat pricing is not the industry standard.

Why are you worried about this now?
perhaps I sound more worried than I am... but mostly now I was just wondering why this was such an issue. im understanding why a bit better now though thanks to a couple of recent posts
Post edited March 12, 2014 by teknomedic
Posted March 12, 2014
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Ichwillnichtmehr: For 5 years, GOG.com has brought us games(711 currently), even though a lot of existing games were "delayed" or "never come out" because DRM-free and flat pricing is not the industry standard.

Why are you worried about this now?
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teknomedic: perhaps I sound more worried than I am... but mostly now I was just wondering why this was such an issue. im understanding why a bit better now though thanks to a couple of recent posts
I just don't see that there is reason to worry.

With ever more indie titels being produced by small studios, with ever more crowdfunding games being funded, with ever more mid range dvelopers going their own way and skipping the major publishers, I think the future for games is looking better than they looked in some time.
Posted March 12, 2014
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teknomedic: that last thing you said was finally a real answer. since I live in the US I don't see many of the issues with international pricing. clearly theres more going on than im aware of... but wouldn't these issues be caused more by your government polices than greedy video game companies?
You mean the region locks? Yes and no. In Germany quite a few brutally violent games were and are deemed not suited for underage players, but the reason why many of these games are censored in Germany is because the companies want to sell them to as many people as possible, including underage players. In most cases it's not forbidden for an adult to buy and play the original version, but the companies would have to make sure that the games are not advertised to children (which means lesser media exposure for these titles) and the stores would have to make sure that the buyers are of age (which means more hassle for the sellers). So the companies prefer to create a 'family-friendly' version that they can freely sell wherever and to whomever they want to. And I suspect quite a few are happily censoring their games even before anyone complains, according to what they *think* the laws demand while being pretty ignorant of the actual facts. No government I know of is asking the publishers to censor their games, they do it because it means more profit and less trouble. And then there are also cases of games that are judged differently today than in the 90's, but the companies still treat them the same and apparantly can't be bothered to keep up with the changes. For some reason you can't even buy Hexen with a German IP, even though AFAIK there was never an issue with this game in Germany, only with Doom and Wolfenstein 3D, back in the 90's.

But that's just to give you a short impression; I didn't really mean to use region locks as an example of unfair business practices (although I'm sure they can be), more as an example of how the community can get even more divided. I always liked that our nationality doesn't really matter on GOG and that they don't track GeoIPs.
Post edited March 13, 2014 by Leroux
Posted March 12, 2014
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teknomedic: wouldn't these issues be caused more by your government polices than greedy video game companies?
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StickOfPlywood: Seeing as how many international modern government policies are increasingly dictated by the whims of wealthy free market moguls, (of which the United States is certainly no exception,) rather than the needs and markets of the citizens, it is practically impossible to affect such policies without exceptionally well-organized grassroots efforts.

Basically, the ethical choice of "one world price" is a more progressive policy than anything the majority of world governments today would ever adopt. It is significant that GOG has managed to maintain enough autonomy to be capable of making such a moral choice for themselves; a juggernaut (like Steam) could never attempt such policies. The whole idea of a business empire is akin to the 4X genre: Explore, Expand, Exploit, Exterminate. What does an emperor care for the will of the people?

The only ones who would care are those who shed the moniker of emperor in the first place. You can't be an emperor and do right by the world at the same time, you have to pick one or the other.
this I get too.... but it does bring up a question.....

if this is about GOG taking a stand against this type of pricing..... then have they done it?

I ask because from what ive read... they are still accepting the unfair pricing.... but are only making it transparent to its customers by paying the fees themselves vs passing the fees to us.... so really, nothing has changed and no stance taken. GOG simply took the most middle ground it could.

or did I miss something?
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teknomedic: that last thing you said was finally a real answer. since I live in the US I don't see many of the issues with international pricing. clearly theres more going on than im aware of... but wouldn't these issues be caused more by your government polices than greedy video game companies?
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Leroux: You mean the region locks? Yes and no. In Germany quite a few brutally violent games were and are deemed not suited for underage players, but the reason why many of these games are censored in Germany is because the companies want to sell them to as many people as possible, including underage players. In most cases it's not forbidden for an adult to buy and play the original version, but the companies would have to make sure that the games are not advertised to children (which means lesser media exposure for these titles) and the stores would have to make sure that the buyers are of age (which means more hassle for the sellers). So the companies prefer to create a 'family-friendly' version that they can freely sell wherever and to whomever they want to. No government I know of is asking the publishers to censor their games, they do it because it means more profit. And then there are also cases of games that are judged differently today than in the 90's, but the companies still treat them the same and apparantly can't be bothered to keep up with the changes. For some reason you can't even buy Hexen with a German IP, even though AFAIK there was never an issue with this game in Germany, only with Doom and Wolfenstein 3D, back in the 90's.

But that's just to give you a short impression; I didn't really mean to use region locks as an example of unfair business practices (although I'm sure they can be), more as an example of how the community can get even more divided. I always liked that our nationality doesn't really matter on GOG and that they don't track GeoIPs.
it was maybe a bad example, but I followed your point and I agree with it. I do understand more about why people were willing to miss out on some games if I meant more fair pricing.

from a superficial perspective I was a bit confused, but hearing more details into the why has helped a lot.
Post edited March 13, 2014 by teknomedic
Posted March 13, 2014
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teknomedic: this I get too.... but it does bring up a question.....

if this is about GOG taking a stand against this type of pricing..... then have they done it?

I ask because from what ive read... they are still accepting the unfair pricing.... but are only making it transparent to its customers by paying the fees themselves vs passing the fees to us.... so really, nothing has changed and no stance taken. GOG simply the most middle ground it could.

or did I miss something?
No, I think that's pretty much it. They're still going along with the unfair pricing, they just promise to make up for it with store credit and to try and not let it become the norm.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGetting back to our roots(1418 posts)(1418 posts)
(1418 posts)