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General discussionGetting back to our roots(1418 posts)(1418 posts)
(1418 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 11, 2014
Hey, GOGgers,

We're not perfect, we're exploring new frontiers, and we make mistakes. We thought DRM-Free was so important that you'd prefer we bring you more DRM-Free games and Fair Price was less critical and that it could be sacrificed in some cases. The last two week's worth of comments in our forums (nearly 10k!), show that's not the case. We didn’t listen and we let you down. We shouldn't sacrifice one of our core values in an attempt to advance another. We feel bad about that, and we're sorry. Us being sorry is not of much use to you, so let’s talk about how we will fix it.

One: DRM-free forever. Abandoning fixed regional pricing means it will probably take longer to get some games, but you've made it clear that sacrificing fair pricing for more DRM-free games isn't acceptable.

Two: We will adamantly continue to fight for games with flat worldwide pricing. If that fails and we are required to have regional prices, we will make up the difference for you out of our own pockets. For now it will be with $5.99 and $9.99 game codes. In a couple of months, once we have such functionality implemented, we will give you store credit instead, which then you will be able to use towards any purchase and cover the price of it in full or partially. Effectively gamers from all around the world will be able to benefit from the US prices.

This will apply to every single game where we do not have flat pricing, such as Age of Wonders 3 (full details here), Divinity: Original Sin, and The Witcher 3. If you remember the Fair Price Package for The Witcher 2, this will be exactly the same.

Three: We still intend to introduce the pricing in local currencies. Let us explain why we want to do it and how we want to make it fair for everyone. From the very beginning our intention was to make things easier for users whose credit cards/payment systems are not natively in USD. The advantages are simple because the price is more understandable and easier to relate to. There would be no exchange rates involved, no transaction fees, and no other hidden charges. However after reading your comments, we realized we have taken an important element away: the choice. In order to fix this, we'll offer the option of paying in the local currency or the equivalent in USD. This way, how you pay is always your choice.

Four: You are what matters, and we will be sure to involve you all more in what we're doing and why we're doing it. Let's start by meeting you at GDC - we’d like to invite you to meet us face-to-face Monday the 17th at GDC. Obviously, not all of you can come to San Francisco, so we want to invite all of you to an online event with us early in April to ask us whatever you would like. More details soon.

The bottom line is simple: there may be companies that won't work with us (although we will work hard to convince the most stubborn ones ;). Yes, it means we might miss out on some games, but at the same time GOG.com will remain true to its values and will keep on offering you the best of DRM-free gaming with Fair Prices.

Once again thank you for caring so much about GOG.com. We will work hard not to disappoint you again.

--Marcin "iWi" Iwinski & Guillaume "TheFrenchMonk" Rambourg
Posted March 12, 2014
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realchris99: "You you may have to pay more up front but you getting the equivalent in credit or game codes so that you can get something else. " And this is another kind of the same bad thing.

Sorry, this is not the solution of the problem. this ist just some trick. if they wanna pay the difference, they have to pay the difference. this is the same situation than before. in this system the credits are growing and i lose more money again, cause i life in another region. this ist just a marketing-gag, but no solution.

"You're not going to buy one thing here and not buy something else eventually.."

This could be the consequence!
How do you figure... do you plan to buy a new game and nothing else? Do you plan to buy only new games? New games will also probably be a rare type of deal around here (meaning you won't see them much). Only the new games will have the regional pricing.

So unless your planning to only by a new game, and nothing else how can your credits stack? You can use them to buy other games you know, ones that are not regionally priced like the older games.

And if one can use the credits during a sale, that works out even better in your favor... it's true what they say you can't please everyone.
Post edited March 12, 2014 by BKGaming
Posted March 12, 2014
Thank you so much GOG for listening to your users. I am very happy with the new solution.
To reconsider business plans so fast and changing them because of your loyal customers is outstanding.
I will for sure keep buying here :)
Posted March 12, 2014
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realchris99: "You you may have to pay more up front but you getting the equivalent in credit or game codes so that you can get something else. " And this is another kind of the same bad thing.

Sorry, this is not the solution of the problem. this ist just some trick. if they wanna pay the difference, they have to pay the difference. this is the same situation than before. in this system the credits are growing and i lose more money again, cause i life in another region. this ist just a marketing-gag, but no solution.

"You're not going to buy one thing here and not buy something else eventually.."

This could be the consequence!
The solution might not be absolutely perfect in all ways to all people, but consider this - who else would be willing to eat the difference on items to the point of taking a loss? If there's another store that is willing to do so, I've not heard of it. Steam certainly isn't, from what I've seen people say. It looks like that for them it's region pricing with no counterbalance and too bad if you don't like it. They'll screw you without so much as a kiss and a drink beforehand. And with old games, they'll frequently leave you with bugs and no easy way to remedy them while taking your money.
Posted March 12, 2014
As one of the bigger participants in the feedback storm (what with the <span class="bold">Hitler video</span> and all) I guess I should write something, and sorry for the late response. :)

It's definitely a good thing that GOG at least partially backpedaled on its decision. How it'll turn out in practice will remain to be seen, although I'm probably going to avoid regionally priced releases altogether until a credit system is implemented and you really get the actual price difference sent to your GOG wallet, regardless of whether a game's on sale or not. GOG returning the difference out of its own pocket sounds very pro-customer indeed, and I respect that decision!

Some damage has already been done through the undeniably sleazy way that the change was communicated and defended on GOG's part. The fact that it was a big scare and that it was insulting for some of us is not going away, and we'll just have to see how long it takes for users, myself included, to forget that at least in practical terms, meaning purchasing and word of mouth behavior.

Other than that, I'm glad that things turned out this way, and that we have yet more proof that public feedback is the most effective way to change things instead of apathy or scoffing at anyone out to defend their rights in the face of "first world problems"! Even those who lashed out at the criticism are potentially going to benefit from not having to pay more, which they should bear in mind.



All that said, GOG will probably remain my favorite digital store, which was the reason I opposed the change so adamantly in the first place. :)
Posted March 12, 2014
Damn, I was really debating whether to continue buying here or not, and then GOG comes out with a really good move to get back our goodwill. Well, they certainly got me. I am not someone who buys new games (I have to manage a really tight budget, and I usually only buy on sale), so it was going to affect me only marginally, but the principle really mattered to me, and seeing how far they are willing to go for this is really important as far as I am concerned.

To sum it up, I am really happy about this change, good job, GOG! :)
Posted March 12, 2014
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realchris99: "You you may have to pay more up front but you getting the equivalent in credit or game codes so that you can get something else. " And this is another kind of the same bad thing.

Sorry, this is not the solution of the problem. this ist just some trick. if they wanna pay the difference, they have to pay the difference. this is the same situation than before. in this system the credits are growing and i lose more money again, cause i life in another region. this ist just a marketing-gag, but no solution.

"You're not going to buy one thing here and not buy something else eventually.."

This could be the consequence!
Its as close as you're going to get, dude. They can't take the whole hit for the process; this is best they're going to do.

As someone else said, if that's still unsatisfactory don't buy those games.
Posted March 12, 2014
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Selderij: As one of the bigger participants in the feedback storm (what with the <span class="bold">Hitler video</span> and all) I guess I should write something, and sorry for the late response. :)

It's definitely a good thing that GOG at least partially backpedaled on its decision. How it'll turn out in practice will remain to be seen, although I'm probably going to avoid regionally priced releases altogether until a credit system is implemented and you really get the actual price difference sent to your GOG wallet, regardless of whether a game's on sale or not. GOG returning the difference out of its own pocket sounds very pro-customer indeed, and I respect that decision!

Some damage has already been done through the undeniably sleazy way that the change was communicated and defended on GOG's part. The fact that it was a big scare and that it was insulting for some of us is not going away, and we'll just have to see how long it takes for users, myself included, to forget that at least in practical terms, meaning purchasing and word of mouth behavior.

Other than that, I'm glad that things turned out this way, and that we have yet more proof that public feedback is the most effective way to change things instead of apathy or scoffing at anyone out to defend their rights in the face of "first world problems"! Even those who lashed out at the criticism are potentially going to benefit from not having to pay more, which they should bear in mind.

All that said, GOG will probably remain my favorite digital store, which was the reason I opposed the change so adamantly in the first place. :)
Now make another downfall video starring Marcin Iwinski. (:
Posted March 12, 2014
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TheEnigmaticT: Legally, we probably don't need approval from partners. Of course, I am not a lawyer, blah blah no legal advice from me. But if you get a record for doing things that your partners don't want to do just because they can't stop you, you will find that you don't have many partners once your contracts expire. So it's always good to make sure that you don't spring any surprises on people. :)
Oh, no doubt that a record of good practices is what keeps partnerships alive and flourishing. My question was more about any potential legal or contractual obligations that dictated some form of permission or approval.

And yes, your math in the example of a UK sale of AoW3 is terribly wrong; done right shows that in that particular example you end in the black (by a very small amount after taking into account other costs). And the case of 27% VAT is the one where you "break even". That doesn't negate the fact that it does cost you money (smaller profit margins), but surely a calculated compromise to keep all parties (customers and publishers/ developers) content and the business growing.

Thanks for the reply.
Posted March 12, 2014
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Trilarion: And the mirror image will be the insane amount of money TRIUMPH WILL GAIN by every sale from VAT countries like UK. It's really MADNESS.

US retail: $40 minus revenue share for retailer (is probably higher because of storage, storefront, production costs, so let's say 50% instead of 30%) means $20 goes to Triumph.

France digital: $55 price minus 30% revenue share = $38 goes to Triumph

They should be swimming in gold already while GOG cannot even pay lunch by the money they don't make.
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Professor_Cake: Indeed, it is absurd. I have previously stated not purchasing these games at all would be the best way to go so GOG doesn't suffer so much and so the publishers know that regional pricing in unacceptable. However, buying the games using the Russian (or perhaps American) prices would eliminate the offer being required and allow GOG to make money whilst also making it clear to publishers that customers here will not play by their rules.
Indeed, it's the publishers that are the fault at the end of the day here.

My reason for being upset at the original regional pricing announcement is that it removed one of my options, one of the few sites I can go to vote with my wallet and tell publishers "this is how I want games to be sold". GoG needed to know customers were upset, especially if it meant losing a lot of business as a result.
Now I'm happy that GoG have listened to their customers, and am more than willing to wait and see how things work out.

Hopefully this sends the message "regional prices are unacceptable" to some publishers. The ideal situation I'd like to see is retailers refusing to carry anything that comes with regional pricing restrictions, as it's really just a form of price fixing - any normal retailer in the world selling physical goods is going to sell them at the same price to every customer, there's absolutely no reason that digital goods should be used as an excuse to screw some countries over, and it reeks of non-competitive price fixing.

That means it's up to us as customers to put pressure on the retailers, so they can turn can put pressure up the chain on the publishers.

Now, regional pricing is fine, as long as it applies to where the game is sold, not where the customer is located. Retailers should be free to charge whatever they want for goods, and not be dictated to in contracts from their suppliers, and I should be free to buy a game from any country I like, and pay that country's prices - just as I can with the majority of physical goods. That benefits the economies of poorer countries, as money will then flow naturally from the richer ones to the poorer ones who are selling cheaper copies. That's how the global economy is supposed to work. "Region-locked" prices end up screwing over the poorer countries just to line manufacturer's pockets, while giving token "affordable prices" to those poorer countries so customers are fooled into thinking that manufacturer is in fact doing them a favor rather than preventing their home economy from growing through open trade with other nations.

The other problem I have is that publishers only seem to have this agreement in place with digital retailers. If I buy a boxed game from Amazon, they sell it at whatever price they want (often discounted quite a bit from the RRP). Publishers shouldn't have the right to dictate to GoG what prices they sell a game at, just the price they buy each copy at (which absolutely should not be dependent on where the end customer is.)
Post edited March 12, 2014 by mthomason
Posted March 12, 2014
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Selderij: As one of the bigger participants in the feedback storm (what with the <span class="bold">Hitler video</span> and all) I guess I should write something, and sorry for the late response. :)
Brilliant :D
Posted March 12, 2014
thankyou, gog.

this is excellent news.
Posted March 12, 2014
low rated
God I hate you faggots. We were one step closer to getting DRM-free gaming as a norm for AAA titles and you took it all away. I hate all of you.
Post edited March 12, 2014 by SNESMasterRace
Posted March 12, 2014
aaaaaaaaand I'm back to preordering W3 here. <3
Posted March 12, 2014
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TheEnigmaticT: Legally, we probably don't need approval from partners. Of course, I am not a lawyer, blah blah no legal advice from me. But if you get a record for doing things that your partners don't want to do just because they can't stop you, you will find that you don't have many partners once your contracts expire. So it's always good to make sure that you don't spring any surprises on people. :)
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HypersomniacLive: Oh, no doubt that a record of good practices is what keeps partnerships alive and flourishing. My question was more about any potential legal or contractual obligations that dictated some form of permission or approval.

And yes, your math in the example of a UK sale of AoW3 is terribly wrong; done right shows that in that particular example you end in the black (by a very small amount after taking into account other costs). And the case of 27% VAT is the one where you "break even". That doesn't negate the fact that it does cost you money (smaller profit margins), but surely a calculated compromise to keep all parties (customers and publishers/ developers) content and the business growing.

Thanks for the reply.
Hm, was rather expecting this thread to remain even more active than I'm seeing now. But yeah, that math missed how VAT actually works. Not that I claim to know the specifics, but by what I remember I think they'd be $2 in the black at 20% VAT, and 85 cents at 27%? This has probably been gone over a lot since those posts, but only checked the blues and these last few now...

Either way, I'm glad the choice about local pricing was clarified and it's the way it should be, or near enough at least. That counts for a whole lot.

About the other issue, it is definitely wrong for GOG to foot the bill in full and allow publishers to go on as if nothing happened, but should at least work as incentive to persuade them to stay well away from any other such contracts in the future. (I will only consider the compensation as properly "counting" when it'll be in exact store credit instead of codes though.) Now if they could work with said publishers to at least split these costs, it'd make for added incentive for the publishers to drop them as well, seeing as their profits per sale would be lower but the number of sales would still get the full negative effect of the higher price.

PS: And again, for all those complaining about what games they/we/GOG won't be getting as a result of this, I still have only one answer: Those you shouldn't be (legally) purchasing in the first place, seeing as doing so only serves to support these rotten practices.
Post edited March 12, 2014 by Cavalary
Posted March 12, 2014
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Selderij: ...Other than that, I'm glad that things turned out this way, and that we have yet more proof that public feedback is the most effective way to change things instead of apathy or scoffing at anyone out to defend their rights in the face of "first world problems"! Even those who lashed out at the criticism are potentially going to benefit from not having to pay more, which they should bear in mind. ...
I can sign this paragraph fully. It also spent a lot of time here, but I feel glad about the outcome. And I liked your video a lot - it was an extremely humorous approach to the whole thing bringing the discussion to the point as well as the answer from GOG.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGetting back to our roots(1418 posts)(1418 posts)
(1418 posts)