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General discussionGetting back to our roots(1418 posts)(1418 posts)
(1418 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 11, 2014
Hey, GOGgers,

We're not perfect, we're exploring new frontiers, and we make mistakes. We thought DRM-Free was so important that you'd prefer we bring you more DRM-Free games and Fair Price was less critical and that it could be sacrificed in some cases. The last two week's worth of comments in our forums (nearly 10k!), show that's not the case. We didn’t listen and we let you down. We shouldn't sacrifice one of our core values in an attempt to advance another. We feel bad about that, and we're sorry. Us being sorry is not of much use to you, so let’s talk about how we will fix it.

One: DRM-free forever. Abandoning fixed regional pricing means it will probably take longer to get some games, but you've made it clear that sacrificing fair pricing for more DRM-free games isn't acceptable.

Two: We will adamantly continue to fight for games with flat worldwide pricing. If that fails and we are required to have regional prices, we will make up the difference for you out of our own pockets. For now it will be with $5.99 and $9.99 game codes. In a couple of months, once we have such functionality implemented, we will give you store credit instead, which then you will be able to use towards any purchase and cover the price of it in full or partially. Effectively gamers from all around the world will be able to benefit from the US prices.

This will apply to every single game where we do not have flat pricing, such as Age of Wonders 3 (full details here), Divinity: Original Sin, and The Witcher 3. If you remember the Fair Price Package for The Witcher 2, this will be exactly the same.

Three: We still intend to introduce the pricing in local currencies. Let us explain why we want to do it and how we want to make it fair for everyone. From the very beginning our intention was to make things easier for users whose credit cards/payment systems are not natively in USD. The advantages are simple because the price is more understandable and easier to relate to. There would be no exchange rates involved, no transaction fees, and no other hidden charges. However after reading your comments, we realized we have taken an important element away: the choice. In order to fix this, we'll offer the option of paying in the local currency or the equivalent in USD. This way, how you pay is always your choice.

Four: You are what matters, and we will be sure to involve you all more in what we're doing and why we're doing it. Let's start by meeting you at GDC - we’d like to invite you to meet us face-to-face Monday the 17th at GDC. Obviously, not all of you can come to San Francisco, so we want to invite all of you to an online event with us early in April to ask us whatever you would like. More details soon.

The bottom line is simple: there may be companies that won't work with us (although we will work hard to convince the most stubborn ones ;). Yes, it means we might miss out on some games, but at the same time GOG.com will remain true to its values and will keep on offering you the best of DRM-free gaming with Fair Prices.

Once again thank you for caring so much about GOG.com. We will work hard not to disappoint you again.

--Marcin "iWi" Iwinski & Guillaume "TheFrenchMonk" Rambourg
Posted March 12, 2014
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Posted March 12, 2014
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HereForTheBeer: ...- I also don't want any gripes if the released new games are almost all either A) indie platformers, or B) indie adventures. Again, gOg tried to address that.
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Trilarion: I wouldn't be so pessimistic. GOG still has regional pricing, just a bit more compensation in some regions. Won't make a big difference I guess.

On the other hand you never know how many AAAs would have come here. Maybe the publishers still like DRM much more and anyway there wouldn't have come many. You don't know.

Unfortunately we cannot compare alternative realities. Sometimes I wish we could.
That's it, really. We won't know until we know, and that will take time to compare the 'before' to the 'after'. Goodness knows, I hope I'm wrong.

At any rate, to me DRM-free is a big-friggin'-deal, far more important - in the long run - than regional pricing. That's because I feel that ownership-versus-"rental" is really a key point as more and more things in life go digital, and especially cloud- or server-based.

-----

As some folks suggested previous (and I have elsewhere), bump up the baseline prices by a buck or two each to help cover the costs of leveling out the regional pricing. Again, the community has spoken by saying that region-pricing is unfair, so like anything else in life where people gripe about fairness they then should be willing to pony-up to help bring about the equality they seek. After all, much of the discussion isn't about the specific numbers but instead that the numbers are not the same for all.

Ironically, a number of members are instead advocating piracy: theft, in place of "fairness". Combating a perceived loss of ethics with... more-unethical behavior that strengthens the arguments for DRM.

Speaking for myself only, I'll happily pay a higher base of $7.99 and $11.99 (1/5 - 1/3 higher) for good titles if it helps spread DRM-free throughout the industry.
Posted March 12, 2014
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HereForTheBeer: Speaking for myself only, I'll happily pay a higher base of $7.99 and $11.99 (1/5 - 1/3 higher) for good titles if it helps spread DRM-free throughout the industry.
It's a sentiment I can agree with (although that 7.99 could easily be 6.99).

Though there are some issues with this. For one, people would accuse GoG of moneygrubbing. And secondly, higher prices for DRM free games would mean less people would buy here if they can get it cheaper elsewhere (like on Steam). If GoG is selling less copies, publishers and indie developers will be less inclined to go through the effort of selling their games here.
Posted March 12, 2014
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HereForTheBeer: Speaking for myself only, I'll happily pay a higher base of $7.99 and $11.99 (1/5 - 1/3 higher) for good titles if it helps spread DRM-free throughout the industry.
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shadowbaneaxe: It's a sentiment I can agree with (although that 7.99 could easily be 6.99).

Though there are some issues with this. For one, people would accuse GoG of moneygrubbing. And secondly, higher prices for DRM free games would mean less people would buy here if they can get it cheaper elsewhere (like on Steam). If GoG is selling less copies, publishers and indie developers will be less inclined to go through the effort of selling their games here.
LOL - DRM-free is definitely an uphill battle. That gOg stays in the fight is the thing I appreciate most about this place.
Posted March 12, 2014
Thanks, gog.

As much as I dislike the concept of regional pricing, I understood the step towards more newer games. But those games just didn't follow. Those dozens and dozens of AAA games from the last five years didn't pour in immediately. That would have justified the move, I guess. But nothing happened.

If you compromise the policy only in very special cases - i.e. actual triple A publishers and games - AND give a bit of a bonus to those who pay more, I don't think many people will complain.

I do hope for multiple A likes of Tomb Raider, Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed or Borderlands games to show up here eventually. If I have to wait another year, I'll wait another year. I'm playing enough games already.

You WILL have to make sacrifices to leap forward eventually, but it's good you take this one back. It took you nowhere at this time.

With renewed trust,

V.
Post edited March 12, 2014 by Vainamoinen
Posted March 12, 2014
actually i was never ever disappointed with GOG guys - but this is simply incredible...so much that i will stop with my policy of waiting for a price drop on new Microprose/Sid Meier releases and go get them...don't need them exactly now - and won't play them anytime soon - this is simply my support for GOG (GREAT OLD GUYS :) ) team
Post edited March 12, 2014 by sergejGOGaccount
Posted March 12, 2014
Thank you very much GOG!!!
Posted March 12, 2014
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HereForTheBeer: Speaking for myself only, I'll happily pay a higher base of $7.99 and $11.99 (1/5 - 1/3 higher) for good titles if it helps spread DRM-free throughout the industry.
I think you're speaking not only for yourself but for many others too (me included). Who probably don't voice their opinions loud or clear or often enough. Which by the way happens to be a very very big problem in cases like these.

There are always people wo cry out loud, for all kinds of reasons. Unfortunately these few loud-cryers do not stand for the crowd. They have their own agenda which doesn't have to be compatible with the masses.

A good and proven example would be the community of online role playing games. Hard-core players who are persistently trolling the forums about different aspects of a game they don't like, versus casual players who simply play the game and don't want to waste time on the forums (but still pay the same fees).
The hard-cores on the forums are being heard because they're the only ones giving feedback the devs can react to. The casuals are being ignored despite the fact that they vastly outnumber the hard-cores. So, f*cking with the silent casuals might have a bigger economical impact than trying to please the small hard-core crowd. But then again, how do you please a silent crowd if they don't tell you what pleases them?

Now, trying to get back to the OT: You can't please everyone. If GOG considers "DRM-free" the highest value, they should stick to this and attract a specific audience.
Just because a couple hundred community members (which do not even have to be real customers) pile up a couple thousand postings about how they do not support local pricing, that doesn't mean the majority of GOG customers wouldn't pay the little extra. If GOG is able to present the change properly and with good reason.
To me, DRM is a threat, not only a nuisance. And anyone who has the sense to develop business models which avoid DRM needs to be supported. If that means increasing prices a little bit, I'm all for it and willing to pay a few extra bucks.
Post edited March 12, 2014 by gooneysenior
Posted March 12, 2014
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HereForTheBeer: Speaking for myself only, I'll happily pay a higher base of $7.99 and $11.99 (1/5 - 1/3 higher) for good titles if it helps spread DRM-free throughout the industry.
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gooneysenior: I think you're speaking not only for yourself but for many others too (me included). Who probably don't voice their opinions loud or clear or often enough. Which by the way happens to be a very very big problem in cases like these.

There are always people wo cry out loud, for all kinds of reasons. Unfortunately these few loud-cryers do not stand for the crowd. They have their own agenda which doesn't have to be compatible with the masses.

A good and proven example would be the community of online role playing games. Hard-core players who are persistently trolling the forums about different aspects of a game they don't like, versus casual players who simply play the game and don't want to waste time on the forums (but still pay the same fees).
The hard-cores on the forums are being heard because they're the only ones giving feedback the devs can react to. The casuals are being ignored despite the fact that they vastly outnumber the hard-cores. So, f*cking with the silent casuals might have a bigger economical impact than trying to please the small hard-core crowd. But then again, how do you please a silent crowd if they don't tell you what pleases them?

Now, trying to get back to the OT: You can't please everyone. If GOG considers "DRM-free" the highest value, they should stick to this and attract a specific audience.
Just because a couple hundred community members (which do not even have to be real customers) pile up a couple thousand postings about how they do not support local pricing, that doesn't mean the majority of GOG customers wouldn't pay the little extra. If GOG is able to present the change properly and with good reason.
To me, DRM is a threat, not only a nuisance. And anyone who has the sense to develop business models which avoid DRM needs to be supported. If that means increasing prices a little bit, I'm all for it and willing to pay a few extra bucks.
I really like this idea from another user:
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/theres_an_easy_answer_to_any_potential_severe_revenue_loss_due_to_going_back_to_one_price/post2

Edited to clean up the layout.
Post edited March 12, 2014 by HereForTheBeer
Posted March 12, 2014
Well, all of you complaining NOW, because those who raised their voice in the previous topics are not the majority, where the hell were you back then?
It would have been easy to participate in the discussion and telling GOG.com that you do not mind regional pricing...
And there is absolutely no reason not to.
Posted March 12, 2014
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gooneysenior: anyone who has the sense to develop business models which avoid DRM needs to be supported. If that means increasing prices a little bit, I'm all for it and willing to pay a few extra bucks.
That would actually be the other way around, a product without DRM should be cheaper because
1. the developer does not have to develop DRM/pay a DRM licence fee
2. no DRM implementation costs
3. no DRM maintenance costs
Posted March 12, 2014
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Urnoev: Well, all of you complaining NOW, because those who raised their voice in the previous topics are not the majority, where the hell were you back then?
It would have been easy to participate in the discussion and telling GOG.com that you do not mind regional pricing...
And there is absolutely no reason not to.
Well buddy, because I happen to have a life ;-) - I'm not constantly scanning forums. But I try to participate if I happen to see something worth discussing. Like, right now.
Posted March 12, 2014
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HereForTheBeer: Speaking for myself only, I'll happily pay a higher base of $7.99 and $11.99 (1/5 - 1/3 higher) for good titles if it helps spread DRM-free throughout the industry.
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gooneysenior: I think you're speaking not only for yourself but for many others too (me included). Who probably don't voice their opinions loud or clear or often enough. Which by the way happens to be a very very big problem in cases like these.

There are always people wo cry out loud, for all kinds of reasons. Unfortunately these few loud-cryers do not stand for the crowd. They have their own agenda which doesn't have to be compatible with the masses.

A good and proven example would be the community of online role playing games. Hard-core players who are persistently trolling the forums about different aspects of a game they don't like, versus casual players who simply play the game and don't want to waste time on the forums (but still pay the same fees).
The hard-cores on the forums are being heard because they're the only ones giving feedback the devs can react to. The casuals are being ignored despite the fact that they vastly outnumber the hard-cores. So, f*cking with the silent casuals might have a bigger economical impact than trying to please the small hard-core crowd. But then again, how do you please a silent crowd if they don't tell you what pleases them?

Now, trying to get back to the OT: You can't please everyone. If GOG considers "DRM-free" the highest value, they should stick to this and attract a specific audience.
Just because a couple hundred community members (which do not even have to be real customers) pile up a couple thousand postings about how they do not support local pricing, that doesn't mean the majority of GOG customers wouldn't pay the little extra. If GOG is able to present the change properly and with good reason.
To me, DRM is a threat, not only a nuisance. And anyone who has the sense to develop business models which avoid DRM needs to be supported. If that means increasing prices a little bit, I'm all for it and willing to pay a few extra bucks.
At the moment, there are 2288 people disagreeing with you here: http://www.gog.com/wishlist/site/ban_all_regional_pricing_from_gog_stick_with_your_principles , and the number is growing (note that this has been CONSTANTLY the most voted site feature request for THREE WEEKS).
You have all rights of disagreeing, but that won't make your personal views on the subject the universal truth for every customer. Do you really thing that the GOG team is so stupid that they would let a minority of people complaining influence them? It's pretty obvious that you are underestimating the number of people that is complaining, and possibly actively boycotting them by not buying games anymore. Otherwise, they wouldn't have taken step backs over their previous decisions.
Posted March 12, 2014
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gooneysenior: I think you're speaking not only for yourself but for many others too (me included). Who probably don't voice their opinions loud or clear or often enough. Which by the way happens to be a very very big problem in cases like these.

There are always people wo cry out loud, for all kinds of reasons. Unfortunately these few loud-cryers do not stand for the crowd. They have their own agenda which doesn't have to be compatible with the masses.

A good and proven example would be the community of online role playing games. Hard-core players who are persistently trolling the forums about different aspects of a game they don't like, versus casual players who simply play the game and don't want to waste time on the forums (but still pay the same fees).
The hard-cores on the forums are being heard because they're the only ones giving feedback the devs can react to. The casuals are being ignored despite the fact that they vastly outnumber the hard-cores. So, f*cking with the silent casuals might have a bigger economical impact than trying to please the small hard-core crowd. But then again, how do you please a silent crowd if they don't tell you what pleases them?

Now, trying to get back to the OT: You can't please everyone. If GOG considers "DRM-free" the highest value, they should stick to this and attract a specific audience.
Just because a couple hundred community members (which do not even have to be real customers) pile up a couple thousand postings about how they do not support local pricing, that doesn't mean the majority of GOG customers wouldn't pay the little extra. If GOG is able to present the change properly and with good reason.
To me, DRM is a threat, not only a nuisance. And anyone who has the sense to develop business models which avoid DRM needs to be supported. If that means increasing prices a little bit, I'm all for it and willing to pay a few extra bucks.
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Shendue: At the moment, there are 2288 people disagreeing with you here: http://www.gog.com/wishlist/site/ban_all_regional_pricing_from_gog_stick_with_your_principles , and the number is growing (note that this has been CONSTANTLY the most voted site feature request for THREE WEEKS).
You have all rights of disagreeing, but that won't make your personal views on the subject the universal truth for every customer. Do you really thing that the GOG team is so stupid that they would let a minority of people complaining influence them? It's pretty obvious that you are underestimating the number of people that is complaining, and possibly actively boycotting them by not buying games anymore. Otherwise, they wouldn't have taken step backs over their previous decisions.
Alrighty, you've got a point there (at least about "a couple hundred" vs. 2.288). Now, I'm pretty sure that 2.288 people still ARE a minority. And how many of these people are real customers?
In the end only the GOGers know. And I'm not imposing my view on others nor do I think my view is the universal truth. I'm guessing from past experiences. I don't have numbers. that's why I wrote things like "to me", "I think" and so forth.
Anyhow: I dearly hope you're right about GOG knowing what they do and working with real numbers. There have been many cases in the past where companies did NOT follow facts but opinions. Short term reaction to avoid a boycot is one thing. Long term planning is another.
Posted March 12, 2014
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TheEnigmaticT: ...but take it from me that if you want to pick up AoW3 from us, go ahead. Whether it helps us showcase that we're a good destination for new games--which lets us fight for flat prices--or just to help show the Triumph guys that they're you appreciate them being mensches for adapting to the changes we're putting in place, there's good reasons to pick up AoW3 if you're inclined. :)
Now the real question is, do I want AoW3? :)
Post edited March 12, 2014 by NetAndy
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussionGetting back to our roots(1418 posts)(1418 posts)
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