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General discussionGetting back to our roots(1418 posts)(1418 posts)
(1418 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 11, 2014
Hey, GOGgers,

We're not perfect, we're exploring new frontiers, and we make mistakes. We thought DRM-Free was so important that you'd prefer we bring you more DRM-Free games and Fair Price was less critical and that it could be sacrificed in some cases. The last two week's worth of comments in our forums (nearly 10k!), show that's not the case. We didn’t listen and we let you down. We shouldn't sacrifice one of our core values in an attempt to advance another. We feel bad about that, and we're sorry. Us being sorry is not of much use to you, so let’s talk about how we will fix it.

One: DRM-free forever. Abandoning fixed regional pricing means it will probably take longer to get some games, but you've made it clear that sacrificing fair pricing for more DRM-free games isn't acceptable.

Two: We will adamantly continue to fight for games with flat worldwide pricing. If that fails and we are required to have regional prices, we will make up the difference for you out of our own pockets. For now it will be with $5.99 and $9.99 game codes. In a couple of months, once we have such functionality implemented, we will give you store credit instead, which then you will be able to use towards any purchase and cover the price of it in full or partially. Effectively gamers from all around the world will be able to benefit from the US prices.

This will apply to every single game where we do not have flat pricing, such as Age of Wonders 3 (full details here), Divinity: Original Sin, and The Witcher 3. If you remember the Fair Price Package for The Witcher 2, this will be exactly the same.

Three: We still intend to introduce the pricing in local currencies. Let us explain why we want to do it and how we want to make it fair for everyone. From the very beginning our intention was to make things easier for users whose credit cards/payment systems are not natively in USD. The advantages are simple because the price is more understandable and easier to relate to. There would be no exchange rates involved, no transaction fees, and no other hidden charges. However after reading your comments, we realized we have taken an important element away: the choice. In order to fix this, we'll offer the option of paying in the local currency or the equivalent in USD. This way, how you pay is always your choice.

Four: You are what matters, and we will be sure to involve you all more in what we're doing and why we're doing it. Let's start by meeting you at GDC - we’d like to invite you to meet us face-to-face Monday the 17th at GDC. Obviously, not all of you can come to San Francisco, so we want to invite all of you to an online event with us early in April to ask us whatever you would like. More details soon.

The bottom line is simple: there may be companies that won't work with us (although we will work hard to convince the most stubborn ones ;). Yes, it means we might miss out on some games, but at the same time GOG.com will remain true to its values and will keep on offering you the best of DRM-free gaming with Fair Prices.

Once again thank you for caring so much about GOG.com. We will work hard not to disappoint you again.

--Marcin "iWi" Iwinski & Guillaume "TheFrenchMonk" Rambourg
Posted March 12, 2014
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OldFatGuy: Now I'm sure strawman doesn't mean what you think it means.
I'm pretty sure i'm not the one who doesn't know what strawman means.

But here's a pretty simple definition for you:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
I hope you understand it now.
Posted March 12, 2014
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OldFatGuy: Now I'm sure strawman doesn't mean what you think it means.
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Neobr10: I'm pretty sure i'm not the one who doesn't know what strawman means.

But here's a pretty simple definition for you:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
I hope you understand it now.
Show me where I misrepresented your argument. Please.
Posted March 12, 2014
I participated in the angry posts when you told us you'd do regional pricing.

Now -- wow. I think you found the best possible options in all cases.

Thank you!
Posted March 12, 2014
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Neobr10: I'm pretty sure i'm not the one who doesn't know what strawman means.

But here's a pretty simple definition for you:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
I hope you understand it now.
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OldFatGuy: Show me where I misrepresented your argument. Please.
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Rusty_Gunn: Agreed, it's not. But how is jacking up the the price higher than our 'Murican prices going to to help countries with less disposable income?
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Neobr10: Strawman. Please, read my post carefully.
Please Show me where I misrepresented your argument as well.
Posted March 12, 2014
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Randalator: ...They. Haven't. Dropped. Regional. Pricing. All they're doing is offsetting the price difference out of their own pocket by providing vouchers for their customers. Nothing has changed for publishers. If they want regional pricing and all the advantages it entails for them, they can still get it.
And for those who define fair as related to purchase power. It is now more fair. Isn't this good? USA, Japan, UK; Western Europe, Switzerland ... all on approximately the same level which reflects approximately the real buying power.

But OzzieMonkey lives in Australia and therefore probably doesn't care about what others pay as long as the number of games here is unaffected. But we cannot guarantee it will be completely unaffected although I think with regional pricing still present it will be mostly.

And here is the deal: If LucasArts only comes to GOG only if GOG does not compensate anyone then for GOG's sake, do it. I would be okay with it. For LucasArts I would accept almost everything and I guess my fellow GOG customers would understand that too. Therefore, problem solved.

However I guess LucasArts won't come anyway in the near future since nothing GOG ever said hinted in that direction, not even when they announced regional pricing.
Post edited March 12, 2014 by Trilarion
Posted March 12, 2014
GOG, you had me worried for a moment. Keep standing strong. Make them bend to you. As long as you keep by your values, you will always get my money before Steam.
Posted March 12, 2014
Trilarion posted (For a unkown reason reply doesn't worked^^)
" hope they don't make loss, not because of this, just less profit per sale. But a lowered price will also increase the number of sales. So I hope profit will stay.

I guess people were just not willing to pay the really high prices. That's why they would have been weak in any case. It seems to me, you cannot win the fight for DRM free gaming with high prices."



Gog's first way how to handle the situation "Good Nwes,..." felt like a bad joke, i still preordered AOW3 because it was the ony legal way to get it DRM-free. I was mostly hit by the way Gog acted not by the price itself and as a reaction i bought less overall because it's the only way as a customer to "set marks"

Now gog wrote back to the root but that's not true..we still have some new releases with regional pricing but now gog is paying the bill itself...some would say it's justice..but..."what goes around, comes around"...at least..as far as it counts for me.
Posted March 12, 2014
high rated
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TheEnigmaticT: Once we accept more than one currency--which is still a few weeks off--you'll be able to select USD or local currency for any transaction.
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SirPrimalform: Thanks, but that's not quite the info I was looking for.

I'll try rephrasing the question.
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GOG.com: we'll offer the option of paying in the local currency or the equivalent in USD
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SirPrimalform: Does that mean the equivalent price point? e.g. a choice between €4.49 or $5.99 for those in the Eurozone

Or does it mean the equivalent value in USD? e.g. a choice between €4.49 and $6.22 (which is €4.49 in USD at the current exchange rate)
That will vary from game to game. For games with regional pricing differences, we will offer credit back to you guys (in the form of game codes now; store credit later) for the approximate difference in the game's price vs. the US (or index) price. In either circumstance, you will be able to pay in your local currency for the transaction. Let's explain by example of our very own Age of Wonders III. The standard edition of the game is $39.99. In the UK, it is 29.99 GBP; for the moment we don't accept any currency so we're charging UK gamers $49.99 USD. That's a $9.99 difference, so we will be providing any UK gamer with a game code good for any game with a full price of $9.99 or less in our catalog. In the future, once we have the capacity, we will allow UK gamers to either pay in USD or in GBP at their whim, but they will need to pay the GBP price for their region.

EDIT: w0rma has pointed out that I'm fundamentally incorrect about VAT here, and we're actually pretty much coming in at "break even" point on any regionally-priced games. I'm dropping this note in here for clarity, and leaving my terrible maths below so you can laugh at me. This is what happens when an American tries to explain VAT... :(

Now, we've mentioned that we are going to be fighting for flat pricing for games, and we mean this. A quick examination of the costs of regional pricing using publicly-available information would show you why: it costs us money. If we're collecting $49.99 USD for the game, that means at industry-standard revenue share of 30%, we get about $15. Since the sale price of the game was $49.99 and VAT in the UK is 20%, that means we owe about $10 USD in VAT. Then the game that you're receiving from us is another $10 USD. That means we've earned $15 from the preorder and our costs are $17, or we're losing about $2 per unit sold in the UK with regional pricing. Keeping in mind that I'm basing my maths above off of publicly-available numbers rather than any inside knowledge I might have, you can see see that we have good reasons to try and get games at flat pricing. :)

For games that do not have regional pricing (like our catalog of classic content), you will be able to pay in regional currency or in USD, depending on your preference, but you will be paying the same flat price. A $5.99 game will be available to you for either $5.99 or £3.49, depending on your preferences.

Hope that answers your questions. :)
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Skiam: Not being a big gamer and only really ever purchasing stuff from GOG I might be ignorant to what this all means. I understand that DRM is essentially a lock that allows a limit on downloads/installs. Does this mean GOG is no longer going to be DRM Free?
Not at all, no. DRM is essentially a type of technology that controls what you do with your game after you buy it, whether it limits your installs, prevents you from backing the game up, or anything else. It essentially turns your computer against you, because your computer should generally do what you tell it to, and DRM tries to prevent that.

Regional pricing is wholly related to what happens before the sale--it is the price that you will be asked to pay, based on where you live in the world. Tied closely to that is local currencies; since most of the world doesn't use the USD for day to day transactions, we intend to roll out local currencies for markets all around the globe to help them feel more at home here on GOG, but we're doing so in a way that's different than any other digital distributor that I'm aware of out there, because our focus on this is keeping our pricing fair even as we accept local currencies.
Post edited March 12, 2014 by TheEnigmaticT
Posted March 12, 2014
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OldFatGuy: Show me where I misrepresented your argument. Please.
By questioning me "why rip off some countries a big deal instead of just spreading the pain around so everyone gets a little?"

I never said anything remotely close to that. I'm not even defending regional pricing as it stands right now (i just said that there are good examples of regional pricing done right). You're both implying that i'm defending that some countries need to be "ripped off" or that they should get higher prices than the standard american price. I'm not.

I've just said that i think that charging everyone more to "compensate" regional pricing like you suggested isn't that fair. It's that simple. I'm not saying that regional pricing is good and i'm not saying that other countries deserve to pay more than the standard US price. There's no need to twist my arguments around.

Anyway, i'm out, i've already wasted too much time just trying to explain what i wanted to say.
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Rusty_Gunn: Please Show me where I misrepresented your argument as well.
See above
Post edited March 12, 2014 by Neobr10
Posted March 12, 2014
I'm glad to hear it. It's good that some in this industry will admit their mistakes (and fix them). I'd like to believe that this is genuinely based on feedback, and wasn't a planned publicity stunt to make you look good for listening to your customers.

I was very disappointed when you announced the regional pricing. I prefer DRM-free, but I don't want to support this regional pricing horseshit for it.

That "good guy" image is good both for you and customers, keep it up.
Posted March 12, 2014
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TheEnigmaticT: ...A quick examination of the costs of regional pricing using publicly-available information would show you why: it costs us money. If we're collecting $49.99 USD for the game, that means at industry-standard revenue share of 30%, we get about $15. Since the sale price of the game was $49.99 and VAT in the UK is 20%, that means we owe about $10 USD in VAT. Then the game that you're receiving from us is another $10 USD. That means we've earned $15 from the preorder and our costs are $17, or we're losing about $2 per unit sold in the UK with regional pricing. Keeping in mind that I'm basing my maths above off of publicly-available numbers rather than any inside knowledge I might have, you can see see that we have good reasons to try and get games at flat pricing. :) ...
Maybe I'm nitpicking but shouldn't one subtract the industry standard revenue share of 30% also from the game that is another $10 USD? Then at least the loss of $2 would be converted in a small win of $1.

And does GOG really pay the VAT from their own pocket? I mean that then in some countries the industry standard revenue share of 30% would be largely eaten by VAT. Would GOG really work almost for free there?

I don't really believe that GOG would accept making a loss for a sale just to keep a customer. A smaller profit can be reasonable but a price war that results in partial losses? How long could GOG endure this.

I found that retail and digital having the same prices sounds like a scam of the digital customers. At least in my region now there is a monetary incentive to buy digital (apart from convenience).

With all the lower costs of digital I hope the customers will get lower release prices too in the future.

With paying $55 for AoW3 in same regions there must be quite some profit included. With GOG doing the compensation alone it seems like the publisher wins the jackpot currently.
Post edited March 12, 2014 by Trilarion
Posted March 12, 2014
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SirPrimalform: Thanks, but that's not quite the info I was looking for.

I'll try rephrasing the question.

Does that mean the equivalent price point? e.g. a choice between €4.49 or $5.99 for those in the Eurozone

Or does it mean the equivalent value in USD? e.g. a choice between €4.49 and $6.22 (which is €4.49 in USD at the current exchange rate)
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TheEnigmaticT: That will vary from game to game. For games with regional pricing differences, we will offer credit back to you guys (in the form of game codes now; store credit later) for the approximate difference in the game's price vs. the US (or index) price. In either circumstance, you will be able to pay in your local currency for the transaction. Let's explain by example of our very own Age of Wonders III. The standard edition of the game is $39.99. In the UK, it is 29.99 GBP; for the moment we don't accept any currency so we're charging UK gamers $49.99 USD. That's a $9.99 difference, so we will be providing any UK gamer with a game code good for any game with a full price of $9.99 or less in our catalog. In the future, once we have the capacity, we will allow UK gamers to either pay in USD or in GBP at their whim, but they will need to pay the GBP price for their region.

Now, we've mentioned that we are going to be fighting for flat pricing for games, and we mean this. A quick examination of the costs of regional pricing using publicly-available information would show you why: it costs us money. If we're collecting $49.99 USD for the game, that means at industry-standard revenue share of 30%, we get about $15. Since the sale price of the game was $49.99 and VAT in the UK is 20%, that means we owe about $10 USD in VAT. Then the game that you're receiving from us is another $10 USD. That means we've earned $15 from the preorder and our costs are $17, or we're losing about $2 per unit sold in the UK with regional pricing. Keeping in mind that I'm basing my maths above off of publicly-available numbers rather than any inside knowledge I might have, you can see see that we have good reasons to try and get games at flat pricing. :)

For games that do not have regional pricing (like our catalog of classic content), you will be able to pay in regional currency or in USD, depending on your preference, but you will be paying the same flat price. A $5.99 game will be available to you for either $5.99 or £3.49, depending on your preferences.

Hope that answers your questions. :)
Yup, no more questions! I just want to thank you for all the time and effort (not to mention patience) that you've put in over the last few weeks. You guys all deserve a bonus!
Posted March 12, 2014
Getting back to our roots


I like it!
Posted March 12, 2014
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TheEnigmaticT: ...A quick examination of the costs of regional pricing using publicly-available information would show you why: it costs us money. If we're collecting $49.99 USD for the game, that means at industry-standard revenue share of 30%, we get about $15. Since the sale price of the game was $49.99 and VAT in the UK is 20%, that means we owe about $10 USD in VAT. Then the game that you're receiving from us is another $10 USD. That means we've earned $15 from the preorder and our costs are $17, or we're losing about $2 per unit sold in the UK with regional pricing. Keeping in mind that I'm basing my maths above off of publicly-available numbers rather than any inside knowledge I might have, you can see see that we have good reasons to try and get games at flat pricing. :) ...
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Trilarion: Maybe I'm nitpicking but shouldn't one subtract the industry standard revenue share of 30% also from the game that is another $10 USD? Then at least the loss of $2 would be converted in a small win of $1.
That's why our costs are $17 and not $20 for $10 of taxes + $10 of games. :)

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Trilarion: And does GOG really pay the VAT from their own pocket? I mean than in some countries the industry standard revenue share of 30% would be largely eaten by VAT.
The price displayed must be inclusive of VAT. So we don't pay it out of our own pockets so much as the price must include the VAT.

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Trilarion: I don't really believe that GOG would accept really making a loss for a sale just to keep a customer.
The assumption, based on our knowledge of our users, is that they're worth more to us than the short-term loss is. :)
Posted March 12, 2014
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TheEnigmaticT: For games that do not have regional pricing (like our catalog of classic content), you will be able to pay in regional currency or in USD, depending on your preference, but you will be paying the same flat price. A $5.99 game will be available to you for either $5.99 or £3.49, depending on your preferences.

Hope that answers your questions. :)
First of all, this sounds very good, and as mentioned before I'm really pleased GOG decided to step back from the brink and reconsider the policy :)

However, I do have one question about the local prices. As I understand it, my favourite book store, BookDepository.co.uk use a set price and constantly change local prices depending on exchange rates. These will then change on the fly. Will this happen at GOG too, or will there be a set price now, and for example if the pound weakens or strengthens with 30% over the next 2 years, the same price will be default (e.g. £3.49). Or will this price then change by 30% as compared with for example the dollar?
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGetting back to our roots(1418 posts)(1418 posts)
(1418 posts)