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General discussionGetting back to our roots(1418 posts)(1418 posts)
(1418 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 11, 2014
Hey, GOGgers,

We're not perfect, we're exploring new frontiers, and we make mistakes. We thought DRM-Free was so important that you'd prefer we bring you more DRM-Free games and Fair Price was less critical and that it could be sacrificed in some cases. The last two week's worth of comments in our forums (nearly 10k!), show that's not the case. We didn’t listen and we let you down. We shouldn't sacrifice one of our core values in an attempt to advance another. We feel bad about that, and we're sorry. Us being sorry is not of much use to you, so let’s talk about how we will fix it.

One: DRM-free forever. Abandoning fixed regional pricing means it will probably take longer to get some games, but you've made it clear that sacrificing fair pricing for more DRM-free games isn't acceptable.

Two: We will adamantly continue to fight for games with flat worldwide pricing. If that fails and we are required to have regional prices, we will make up the difference for you out of our own pockets. For now it will be with $5.99 and $9.99 game codes. In a couple of months, once we have such functionality implemented, we will give you store credit instead, which then you will be able to use towards any purchase and cover the price of it in full or partially. Effectively gamers from all around the world will be able to benefit from the US prices.

This will apply to every single game where we do not have flat pricing, such as Age of Wonders 3 (full details here), Divinity: Original Sin, and The Witcher 3. If you remember the Fair Price Package for The Witcher 2, this will be exactly the same.

Three: We still intend to introduce the pricing in local currencies. Let us explain why we want to do it and how we want to make it fair for everyone. From the very beginning our intention was to make things easier for users whose credit cards/payment systems are not natively in USD. The advantages are simple because the price is more understandable and easier to relate to. There would be no exchange rates involved, no transaction fees, and no other hidden charges. However after reading your comments, we realized we have taken an important element away: the choice. In order to fix this, we'll offer the option of paying in the local currency or the equivalent in USD. This way, how you pay is always your choice.

Four: You are what matters, and we will be sure to involve you all more in what we're doing and why we're doing it. Let's start by meeting you at GDC - we’d like to invite you to meet us face-to-face Monday the 17th at GDC. Obviously, not all of you can come to San Francisco, so we want to invite all of you to an online event with us early in April to ask us whatever you would like. More details soon.

The bottom line is simple: there may be companies that won't work with us (although we will work hard to convince the most stubborn ones ;). Yes, it means we might miss out on some games, but at the same time GOG.com will remain true to its values and will keep on offering you the best of DRM-free gaming with Fair Prices.

Once again thank you for caring so much about GOG.com. We will work hard not to disappoint you again.

--Marcin "iWi" Iwinski & Guillaume "TheFrenchMonk" Rambourg
Posted March 11, 2014
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HereForTheBeer: ...- I also don't want any gripes if the released new games are almost all either A) indie platformers, or B) indie adventures. Again, gOg tried to address that.
I wouldn't be so pessimistic. GOG still has regional pricing, just a bit more compensation in some regions. Won't make a big difference I guess.

On the other hand you never know how many AAAs would have come here. Maybe the publishers still like DRM much more and anyway there wouldn't have come many. You don't know.

Unfortunately we cannot compare alternative realities. Sometimes I wish we could.
Posted March 11, 2014
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Emob78: I second the frustrations over this turnaround. I understand people being upset over the regional pricing change, but the upside was that newer and better licensing agreements would be possible, thus giving GOG a real shot at delivering the same level of game publishing as Steam, Origin, Gamersgate, etc... now it will go back to where it was before, indies and a small selection of modern games at discount prices. The DRM policy is good here, so are the prices. But this crusade over what amounts to tiny price increases will come back to bite this community down the road.

It sounds like they're going to introduce some form of credit system in the future similar to Gamersgate's bluecoins. Hopefully that will allow a decent pricing compromise and will still allow them to introduce newer games while sticking with their DRM-free policy.
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wpegg: If GOG want to do this, they'd be much better off having some kind of consultation with the whole community, telling us in advance (i.e. before signing deals) what the bounds of the pricing constraints will be (which they admitted in one of the other threads, would have been carte blanche for the publisher to just pick the prices, I feel they can set tougher rules than that if they plan in advance what their pricing model is). Then seeing what their customer base feels about it.
Why should they have to consult with us about anything? We're customers, we don't work for GOG. Our power with the company begins and ends with our purchases. Their relationship with us should only go so far as their business practices permit or allow. If those practices are based on principles, fine. If they're based solely on market shifts, fine as well. But to me all this hooplah over GOG contradicting its principles with the regional pricing just got itself contradicted by the fan base gloating over seeing GOG (yet again) switching course. See, that's my point. I'm not arguing over GOG's principles, only making the point that by constantly pandering to the mob you almost always end up negating any original principles, and isn't that kind of the point of this whole argument?
Posted March 11, 2014
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HypersomniacLive: Careful now - by your own arguments, you and those plenty of gamers from regionally priced countries also represent a vocal minority.
I never claimed one way or the other honestly... I just said that those complaining were not the majority. Without a poll we will never know. I have seen plenty from those countries more concerned about not having more choices than paying more. Are there more that care about regional prices over in those countries...sure probably. But those that do care more about DRM free gaming would be grouped with us who wasn't affected by regional prices that also still care.
Posted March 11, 2014
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GOG.com: Hey, GOGgers,

snip

--Marcin "iWi" Iwinski & Guillaume "TheFrenchMonk" Rambourg
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jase23: There is no need to apologize, GOG management. I agree with your previous position of prioritizing the addition of DRM-free games to your catalog, and not worrying about the price being exactly the same in every country. If you are in Denmark or Germany and you get a great price on an excellent DRM-free game from GOG, better than the price you could get anywhere else, then why should you care whether or not someone in the USA gets a slightly lower price on the same game? Envy is the core human emotion behind the appeal of marxism and socialism and other totalitarian forms of government. To a marxist, it is better that we both have nothing, than for someone else to get a slightly better price than me!
It's ironic that you mention envy is behind the appeal of Marxism and Socialism, when envy has been stated by right wing politicians such as Boris Johnson as being integral towards fueling Capitalistic endeavours. Marxism and Socialism if anything want for a (unrealistic in many ways) level of parity between people.

In reality this decision is one based on a Capitalistic and strictly economic (in the academic sense) nature for both GOG and many of its customers. Customers wish to maximise their utility and companies wish to gain capital. GOG in this case felt that their ability to gain capital was restricted by their decision which made their customers feel that their ability to maximise their utility was impaired, thus they made a decision to elimnate this problem in order to help sales again and thus maximise their capital.
Post edited March 11, 2014 by Professor_Cake
Posted March 11, 2014
I find it strange GOG wants to fight for "Flat Price for everyone" when it's just as unfair as Regional Pricing. Customers from developing countries or low income countries simply can't afford a flat rate. Although I guess it's fine for people doesn't have affect on it. I'm also not a fan of this pandering to a minority group. GOG paying out of their pocket is ridiculous.
Posted March 11, 2014
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adamhm: Agreed. Something people fail to consider is that the vast majority of big titles are now ending up tied into Steam, which will greatly reduce the probability of them ever seeing a (legitimate) DRM-free release - or if they do eventually get a DRM-free release then they will most likely be missing features, such as multiplayer.

Steam already has something like 80% of digital sales, with the rest mostly being Steam key sellers... and that's all with both regional pricing and DRM. So it'll be hard enough for GOG to convince the developers/publishers of big titles to release them here even with regional pricing; but demanding worldwide pricing as well as DRM-free? Not gonna happen, unfortunately :/
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HypersomniacLive: Honest question - what does game features missing from DRM-free releases (like multiplayer) have to do with regional pricing?
Regional pricing would make it more likely that GOG would be able to convince some of the big publishers to try going DRM-free, and if a publisher/developer decides early on to release a DRM-free version of their game then it's not such a big deal to develop their game to work fully without Steam. On the other hand, if a game is planned to be Steam-only then naturally they'll take full advantage of Steam for things like multiplayer in order to reduce development costs & it will be highly unlikely that any future DRM-free release of said game will have those features intact - and that's *if* a DRM-free release happens at all.
Posted March 11, 2014
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IAmSinistar: For everyone who thinks this adjustment on GOG's part is going to slam down the gate on getting more games released, please sober up. They've made it clear there will still be exceptional cases, only that they are going to try to fight harder for their stated principles in those negotiations.
Yes exceptional cases... your crazy if you don't think it will have an effect on which games and how often...
Posted March 11, 2014
Can I just say, thanks GOG!

I think I was going to get off fairly lightly with regional pricing, possibly even US-equivalent pricing, but this is a huge turnaround, and I hope people realise how much of a sacrifice they are making to make sure EVERYONE gets the same games at the same prices.
Posted March 11, 2014
I don't know if the folks at GOG ever had a chance to read my note/letter/feedback, but I hope so. (I thought it was well-written, anyway....) While I'm not so egotistical as to think that my message was responsible for this latest development, I am still very please with this latest announcement. As I said previously, GOG has been successful in the past due to the core fundamentals which set it apart from its competitors. Even Steam has had to make adjustments due to the strength of your business model. Keep it up and I see only a bright future ahead of you.

Lots of people say they support GOG and desire its well-being. I, however, believe in putting my money where my mouth is. Here is what I will do to help GOG in its mission to re-shape the gaming industry and its market:

CODE OF THE GOG SUPPORTER

1) I will continue to make GOG.com my first choice when purchasing games. If a title is available from one or more competitors, I will allocate money so that I might buy the title here.

2) If I have some extra cash with which to buy another copy of a game I own elsewhere, I will try to buy my duplicate copy from GOG.com.

3) If I know that a game will come to GOG (or even just hope that it will), I will try to hold off buying from a competitor or, at the very least, will allocate funds to buy a copy from GOG.com when it becomes available.

4) I will continue to tell others about GOG.com and encourage them to shop here.

5) I will continue to support the GOG Community by being pleasant in the forum and encouraging mutual respect. We have one of the best communities online, and it is worth the effort it takes to keep it going the right direction.

6) I will continue to give feedback to GOG through the proper channels, both to remind them of what makes them great, and to support their continued growth and evolution.

7) I will continue to look for ways to promote the core principles of GOG and the vision we share for the betterment of the computer-gaming industry. That includes encouraging game developers to offer their products on GOG.

I am just one person, and my time and money are limited, but I hope that my efforts will, in some small way, benefit both GOG.com and those of us who support it. I am proud to be a member of this community, and thank God for the day you guys talked about the state of the industry and decided to do something about it.

Sincerely,

--Khalaq
Post edited March 11, 2014 by Khalaq
Posted March 11, 2014
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Emob78: <snip>
Yes, that is the point. You believe they are a business, others believe they are, in part, a cause that they support and are a part of. It sounds like we agree on the facts, apart from that.
Post edited March 11, 2014 by wpegg
Posted March 11, 2014
As I criticized flat pricing before, I feel compelled to say that I welcome this new, unexpected turn of events.

There are still some issues to solve, we don't know how exactly you envision "fair" regional pricing and it's still wrong that you will accept regional pricing, only pay for it from your own pockets. The bottom line here is that you're still abandoning your principle, only now you're ready to compensate it. But in general, if you stay true to what you've written here, things are beginning to look much, much better than it were a couple of days ago.
Posted March 11, 2014
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Thing is, when they say 10K replies, they're not even talking about individual posters but the total amount of posts on this topic ( at least within the primary threads related to this topic ). I think we can safely say that many of these posts are by the same people, since the threads went on for a while. Not to mention, the count also includes posts by people who were actually in support of GOGs new policy all along, or at least not actively against it. So how many individual anti regional pricing posters does that leave us with? About 1K? Kind of puts things into perspective...

And I agree that it would have been nice to simply leave the choice with the users, as with the first pre-order title they introduced. Those who were against it simply didn't have to buy it. Now I feel like this could be a missed opportunity to expand GOGs gaming library with some recent or semi-recent high profile titles. And yeah, how ever small or big this "vocal minority" may have been, they pretty much made the decision for everyone else. :/

I don't even want to go on with this topic, though. Seems like the choice has been made, and we'll have to see what good or bad that will bring for the future.
Posted March 11, 2014
Wow. I am really impressed. Not only by your decision, but by your relatively quick turnaround on it.

#GOGForLife
Posted March 11, 2014
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CharlesGrey: And I agree that it would have been nice to simply leave the choice with the users, as with the first pre-order title they introduced. Those who were against it simply didn't have to buy it. Now I feel like this could be a missed opportunity to expand GOGs gaming library with some recent or semi-recent high profile titles. And yeah, how ever small or big this "vocal minority" may have been, they pretty much made the decision for everyone else. :/
Why don't you think they've made decision based precisely on economic outcome of AoW3 preorder?
Posted March 11, 2014
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WhiteElk: GOG and its customers have NO influence over regional pricing. We do however have influence over DRM. The selling of regional priced games would have added yet more influence for GOG, and would have allowed greater growth, thereby affecting DRM to yet even a greater degree. Instead, we limit GOGs growth, reduce our potential for DRM change, and truly threaten GOGs continued relevance in the DDS market.
You make it sound as if no other regional-priced games will ever come to GOG.com. That is not my understanding, based on this paragraph:

Two: We will adamantly continue to fight for games with flat worldwide pricing. If that fails and we are required to have regional prices, we will make up the difference for you out of our own pockets. For now it will be with $5.99 and $9.99 game codes. In a couple of months, once we have such functionality implemented, we will give you store credit instead, which then you will be able to use towards any purchase and cover the price of it in full or partially. Effectively gamers from all around the world will be able to benefit from the US prices.
I interpret the text in bold as meaning that GOG.com can still sell regional-priced games if they cannot convince the publisher to use a flat price, but GOG will now offer a better 'compensation' to people in regions who would have to pay more than the US price.

GOG have not said, 'We will not sell regional-priced games at all', have they? An inflexible publisher would still see their cut of a regional priced game, so why would it prevent them from offering their game here DRM-free? If GOG is willing to offer decent compensation to customers who would be negatively affected by the price in their region, which won't affect the publisher's bottom line, it would seem to be a fair compromise. The publisher still gets their cut, and the customers see added value which keeps them shopping at GOG.

Unless something got lost in translation...and I'm not reading it right. :s
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGetting back to our roots(1418 posts)(1418 posts)
(1418 posts)