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General discussionGetting back to our roots(1418 posts)(1418 posts)
(1418 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 11, 2014
Hey, GOGgers,

We're not perfect, we're exploring new frontiers, and we make mistakes. We thought DRM-Free was so important that you'd prefer we bring you more DRM-Free games and Fair Price was less critical and that it could be sacrificed in some cases. The last two week's worth of comments in our forums (nearly 10k!), show that's not the case. We didn’t listen and we let you down. We shouldn't sacrifice one of our core values in an attempt to advance another. We feel bad about that, and we're sorry. Us being sorry is not of much use to you, so let’s talk about how we will fix it.

One: DRM-free forever. Abandoning fixed regional pricing means it will probably take longer to get some games, but you've made it clear that sacrificing fair pricing for more DRM-free games isn't acceptable.

Two: We will adamantly continue to fight for games with flat worldwide pricing. If that fails and we are required to have regional prices, we will make up the difference for you out of our own pockets. For now it will be with $5.99 and $9.99 game codes. In a couple of months, once we have such functionality implemented, we will give you store credit instead, which then you will be able to use towards any purchase and cover the price of it in full or partially. Effectively gamers from all around the world will be able to benefit from the US prices.

This will apply to every single game where we do not have flat pricing, such as Age of Wonders 3 (full details here), Divinity: Original Sin, and The Witcher 3. If you remember the Fair Price Package for The Witcher 2, this will be exactly the same.

Three: We still intend to introduce the pricing in local currencies. Let us explain why we want to do it and how we want to make it fair for everyone. From the very beginning our intention was to make things easier for users whose credit cards/payment systems are not natively in USD. The advantages are simple because the price is more understandable and easier to relate to. There would be no exchange rates involved, no transaction fees, and no other hidden charges. However after reading your comments, we realized we have taken an important element away: the choice. In order to fix this, we'll offer the option of paying in the local currency or the equivalent in USD. This way, how you pay is always your choice.

Four: You are what matters, and we will be sure to involve you all more in what we're doing and why we're doing it. Let's start by meeting you at GDC - we’d like to invite you to meet us face-to-face Monday the 17th at GDC. Obviously, not all of you can come to San Francisco, so we want to invite all of you to an online event with us early in April to ask us whatever you would like. More details soon.

The bottom line is simple: there may be companies that won't work with us (although we will work hard to convince the most stubborn ones ;). Yes, it means we might miss out on some games, but at the same time GOG.com will remain true to its values and will keep on offering you the best of DRM-free gaming with Fair Prices.

Once again thank you for caring so much about GOG.com. We will work hard not to disappoint you again.

--Marcin "iWi" Iwinski & Guillaume "TheFrenchMonk" Rambourg
Posted March 11, 2014
http://youtu.be/F_6IjeprfEs
Posted March 11, 2014
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StormHammer: - they will continue to push for flat pricing of games in the future, rather than simply adopting regional pricing for their whole catalogue.
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Pheace: That's not new, they said the same thing when they introduced regional pricing.
Only that time they said it's the industry standard and there is nothing they can do. Now they say more like they won't take every deal if it is too extreme and doesn't allow them to compensate more properly.

Basically the community of GOG will now be divided. Those who live in the low priced regions will have no problems with the all-in-for-regional system. The others will rather like the new middle-ground-system. That's what happens when you introduce regional pricing, enviousness everywhere.
Posted March 11, 2014
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Emob78: I second the frustrations over this turnaround. I understand people being upset over the regional pricing change, but the upside was that newer and better licensing agreements would be possible, thus giving GOG a real shot at delivering the same level of game publishing as Steam, Origin, Gamersgate, etc... now it will go back to where it was before, indies and a small selection of modern games at discount prices. The DRM policy is good here, so are the prices. But this crusade over what amounts to tiny price increases will come back to bite this community down the road.

It sounds like they're going to introduce some form of credit system in the future similar to Gamersgate's bluecoins. Hopefully that will allow a decent pricing compromise and will still allow them to introduce newer games while sticking with their DRM-free policy.
I don't agree, but even if you're right - that wasn't what this was about. Perhaps GOG should introduce regional pricing, but they went about it in totally the wrong way. They dropped the announcement into a "Good news" thread, then they dropped into the second thread that they were going to retrospectively apply it to the classics, leaving people feeling very concerned that the consumer was not being considered first.

If GOG want to do this, they'd be much better off having some kind of consultation with the whole community, telling us in advance (i.e. before signing deals) what the bounds of the pricing constraints will be (which they admitted in one of the other threads, would have been carte blanche for the publisher to just pick the prices, I feel they can set tougher rules than that if they plan in advance what their pricing model is). Then seeing what their customer base feels about it.

I personally prefer GOG fighting the good fight, but all should be heard, and not many were before this announcement. Hence the knee jerk to restore us to where we were. I'm sorry to have to point at TET, but this was a PR cockup that you'd expect a marketting manager that engages with his customers so regularly would have anticipated.
Posted March 11, 2014
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Professor_Cake: I agree for the most part, although I do wonder if a mere two weeks of sales, including two semi major promotions as well as the pre order figures for AoW3 would be a long enough period to show GOG that regional pricing was a poor decision from a sales perspective. If so, there must have been significant drop off to spur this decision so quickly. I have to admit that I did not purchase any items from GOG since the first announcement, though in both sales there were games I almost certainly would have purchased had this situation not arisen. It is questionable if there were so many who were like minded that GOG felt a turn of face was the way to go, That being said, stranger things have happened.

I would agree that this almost certainly was a pure business decision, however the general reaction from people on here seems to be that they either think differently or simply don't care about the whys but that things have been rectified to a large extent. Whether this translates into regaining the sort of sales that GOG previously garnered remains to be seen, as I suspect that GOG will struggle to regain some of the goodwill previously shown towards it, particularly from those who saw GOG as more than a simple business. I hope so, as even from a pure rational perspective GOG is better than most other places.
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HypersomniacLive: Two weeks may not be a long time, but don't forget that the paying customer base is much larger than the forum community. GOG is not stupid, they know that having the most shiny new titles won't do them any good if a significant percentage of people don't buy them.

The results of these past two weeks combined with algorithmic projections for extended periods of time is what I think made GOG reassess the situation and come up with the best possible compromise at this point - a compromise I'm also fairly certain that they've run through algorithmic projections to determine its results and effects.
They could have let the discussion go on for another week or two to have more factual data at hand, but it probably would have costed them more by then.

Also don't forget that they're going to GDC in less than a week, so they didn't really have a lot of time to resolve a situation that apparently hit them harder than they initially thought it would.
Oh certainly, I wasn't really trying to refute the statement previously given as much as I was trying to say that it is unusual but nonetheless fathomable. Even so, you have to wonder how large any drop was; was the silent majority really so large and active in their discretion towards purchasing during that period? Though GOG will never release numbers (nor should they, as such numbers are very sensitive data) it must have been staggering to behold the number difference between projected and actual sales if indeed the numbers were behind the decision.
Post edited March 11, 2014 by Professor_Cake
Posted March 11, 2014
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Rhyney: Well, I thought gog's first decision was reasonable, because it allowed more flexibility. ...
I don't really understand how the first decision allowed more flexibility. I find this solution here allows much more flexibility with the choice of currency to pay and the flexible gift codes/store credit.

In total I would say they softened the change. It is now a more balanced approach between their two core principles and the desire for as many games as possible. They reclaimed at least partly their lost core principle while still leaving the door wide open for many new releases.

It still puzzles me. Supposedly retail was almighty but now for AoW3 it turned out that GOG can indeed undercut retail (in some regions now). How is this possible?

Of course digital should be able to do this easily but everyone said it wasn't possible and now GOG shows that they can. Puzzling.
Posted March 11, 2014
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Cavalary: GOGs sales directly demonstrate a DRM free market.
By that rule, GOG sales also demonstrate a flat price market, while national boycotts on regional prices would not demonstrate anything, right?
GOG has spoken of using their sales numbers as leverage to have gotten new publishers signed. i have yet heard GOG say they use sales as leverage for changing regional pricing. Regional pricing is currently not something a niche online store has any power to influence. Even if monster steam tried to enforce fair-pricing, it would be the publishers fighting in national courts. The motivation would have to be great. DRM is a different matter which GOG has indeed created influence.

Back when GOG meant Good Old Games, if GOG had listened to those who harped "founding principles" when GOG announced it would be selling new games, then GOG would not have the influence on DRM that they do now. Some of the new games recently released, would not have been released DRM free. In odd irony, far as i can figure, GOG will not now, have the influence it could have had, if it had ignored the regional pricing detractors as it had ignored the new game detractors.

Time will tell. Business is a futures thing, today is already history. One must look well ahead, particularly when in competition with a monster like steam.
Posted March 11, 2014
high rated
Land's sakes, you can't please all of the people all of time. Especially the ones who post.

For everyone who thinks this adjustment on GOG's part is going to slam down the gate on getting more games released, please sober up. They've made it clear there will still be exceptional cases, only that they are going to try to fight harder for their stated principles in those negotiations. This beats the hell out of preemptively rolling over and saying "please don't kick my stomach TOO hard", which was their previous new stance in attempting to woo the most assholish publishers.

But I know nothing placates these "where are the games" grousers. GOG released three titles today (well, two and preorder), and yet still you find the tired old song of doom being wailed. The same you can also hear every Tuesday and Thursday, like the morning call to despair. Even when post after post points out "GOG has released X classic games this year, Z more than last year", you still see the sandwich-board prophets declaring "The End Is Nigh!".

GOG has made a mature decision and a complex compromise that is the best under the circumstances. Let's let it run for more than 24 hours before we decide "I will get no more games forever".

(Apology to Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce for that last bit.)
Posted March 11, 2014
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BKGaming: That's the thing really it wasn't a majority, not by a long shot... had they had a majority of opinion with constructive feedback I would agree it was a good plan to backtrack some... however, most of the people that posted didn't post constructive feedback... it was more like "screw gog, I'm leaving... flat regional prices or else". This does not just effect those who deal with regional prices... it now effects all of us because this could very well impact the games we get at GOG and what we get to play/buy.

Internet gamers are some of the biggest complainers ever... my experience in 20+ years of gaming.... they don't what constructive discussion they want what they want. Now they know if they complain GOG will give in.
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Mr_GeO: Care to share your so well informed sources that make you soooo sure that people complaining "wasn't majority"? That it was just a bunch of drama queens?
And from my 30 years experience of gaming I'll say that people who do not give a flying crap about anything else than their own benefits have a tendency to blame others for lack of "constructive feedback" and being "complainers" when said others start expressing their dissatisfaction and are asking for more fair rules of engagement.
Well lets see... they have close to 100K likes on Facebook, over 60K followers on twitter and only around 10K replied on the forum all together. They also get I believe around 2 million hits a month. So yes that not the majority...not by a long shot.

The difference is you had a choice... you didn't have to buy that new game that was regionally priced. You could have waited for a sale. Instead of being sensible it turned into complaining, complaining that could end up costing every GOG user games that we could have possibly gotten and $$$ from GOG.

It not about who get benefits and who doesn't, by all the complaining you replaced having a choice to blatantly having a decision made for us all rather if we suffer from regional pricing or not. And it's not just the ones not suffering from regional pricing that didn't want that choice taken away, I seen plenty of gamers from regionally priced countries that would have rather had the more choices in DRM free games than being compensated for the price difference.
Posted March 11, 2014
I think many here are confused about 'principles' means. Typically, core principles would be a set of ideas that you believe strongly about, and will continue to believe in them even if attacked or criticized by a larger majority. Apparently, NONE of GOG's principles are really principles... so much as accepted business practices that can be altered/changed/removed according to whims of the marketplace. This has just been proven to be true with this pricing decision reversal. GOG was criticized for not bringing in newer games, they changed their pricing model to allow for newer better game licenses, the fan crowd balked and screamed, and so GOG reversed its decision and will go back to the way it was before.

Seems to me that sometimes when you win you really lose, and sometimes when you lose you really win. The GOG team certainly can't really be seen by everyone as the winners here, but to me they need to sit down and have a come-to-jesus talk about exactly what their PRINCIPLES are... and if they can actually make a list of them they need to understand that principles should NOT be affected by the mob or the ever-changing face of democratic processes that often undermine efficiency, profit, or success. You don't pander to the crowd. Why? Because what the crowd wants today might be completely different tomorrow. Your principles are not always their principles. A distinction is fine, encouraged even. But to sway whichever way the wind is blowing is a good way to find your boat smashed up against the rocks.
Posted March 11, 2014
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BKGaming: ...It has to be something they know can sell otherwise they will lose a lot of money.
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Trilarion: Hmm, if it doesn't sell well they also won't lose a lot of money while if it sells well they'll have to pay a lot of compensation.

It's effectively like a price decrease. I guess they will still make profit with each sale, I would not advice anyone to go that low. But lower prices also mean increased sales. Profit depnds on both. Maybe the increased sales compensate the lowered price, maybe not resulting in higher or lowered profit. But I guess they won't lose really any money even in the worst case just earn less. So I would say that there is no need to be more selective. Every additional game will give them a benefit, maybe more, maybe less than before.
They still have the cost of hosting, supporting said game, lawyers to draft up the agreements and so forth... so if a game doesn't sell well and they didn't make much profit from it, it could end up being a costly risk on GOG's part.
Posted March 11, 2014
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Senteria: ... What happened. ....
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Trilarion: My guess is that GOG saw that sales (AoW3 preorders or more) in the high prices regions dropped substantially and then they saw that the new strategy isn't working anyway so they had to fix it.

The store credit is surely a way forward because it is much more flexible and the choice for the currency payment also.

The increase in compensation is an extremely strong hint, that nobody wanted to buy. That is the natural reaction of a seller to breaks in demand.

If they will miss some games... well let's see. But please don't overestimate the "we listened..." part - this is just marketing speak.
It looks like "Vote with your wallet" actually happend.
Posted March 11, 2014
Brilliant!

Point Three I didn't see coming at all. Thanks for that!
Posted March 11, 2014
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Trilarion: Actually what strikes me most is how much more flexible and thought out the new plans are. Choosing between currencies, store credit. This is not exactly sorcery or completely new, but surely a big step forward for GOG.
Exactly, and although issuing store credit to cover regional price differences may hit GoG's bottom line, it's both a principled (which does matter!) and reasonable way to deal with the issue, since in many cases the developers/publishers simply CAN'T agree to non-regional pricing right now.
Posted March 11, 2014
Nice that we're back up to neutral ground now - Making some widespread hated announcement about regional price gouging, then going into PR damage control mode to rescind that statement a week or two later doesn't make you 'Awesome' or 'Going above and beyond', it's back to neutral, since this should never have happened in the first place. I am genuinely baffled why and how GoG thought this wouldn't cause controversy when it was initially announced weeks ago.. actually makes me lose a little faith in them to be honest, makes them seem way out of touch and less and less 'By gamers for gamers' and more 'Cold corporate suit' if they in all honestly didn't know or see this coming as such a negative thing.

In any case I'm glad they saw the light (of negative press and decreased future sales which means less revenue) and decided to Damage control this clusterfuck. Won't boycott these guys any-more; for the time being.
Posted March 11, 2014
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Emob78: ... But this crusade over what amounts to tiny price increases will come back to bite this community down the road. ...
You mean probably the local currency pricing debate, not the AoW3 prices which were as large as 300% deviating from each other. Well I guess the local currency pricing was anyway not decisive for the chances of new AAAs coming here. The changes were indeed too tiny for that. I don't think there is a big chance this will be decisive and biting the community. Sometimes you have to take a bit of risk. If you do everything like the others you become just another Steam only without the success.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGetting back to our roots(1418 posts)(1418 posts)
(1418 posts)