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General discussionGarriott's heavy-handed Steam DRM...! Unreal.(44 posts)(44 posts)
(44 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 30, 2018
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amok: by the way, the reason why you can't find any Ultima forums on Steam is that they don't sell them there, nor have they ever done so, AFAIK
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waltc: Yes, as I said in my original post. Apparently only GOG has had the distribution rights--except for this Ultima game. Oddly enough. I wasn't aware that GOG had an exclusive on the IP which is why I searched for the games and their forums.
they don;t, it is sold on Origin also
Posted March 30, 2018
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waltc: OK, you obviously are being far too literal. He's locked up the game itself on Steam and he's locked up the only forums for the game that exist. Would you feel better if I said that locking up the game with Steam = DRM and locking up the game forums = censorship? Six of one, half-a-dozen of the other...;)
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amok: sigh... what is DRM? time to define it now then, before continuing
DRM = digital rights management. Simple as that. The forums, btw, are 100% digital, don't ya' know...;)
Posted March 30, 2018
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amok: sigh... what is DRM? time to define it now then, before continuing
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waltc: DRM = digital rights management. Simple as that. The forums, btw, are 100% digital, don't ya' know...;)
That's the acronym. Now define how it works. Feel free to use Wikpedia if you struggle
Posted March 30, 2018
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waltc: DRM = digital rights management. Simple as that.
Rights/Restriction, more or less the same. It's all evil.
Posted March 30, 2018
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Grargar: None of the Ultima games were ever released on Steam. I don't know what rights Garriott has for the Ultima series, but EA is the publisher of all the older Ultima games here and on Origin (minus Akalabeth).
For yesterday's thread, he still owns the rights to the characters:

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/ultima_remakes/

On his wikipedia page, he's still dressing up as Lord British as well.
Posted March 30, 2018
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waltc: DRM = digital rights management. Simple as that. The forums, btw, are 100% digital, don't ya' know...;)
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amok: That's the acronym. Now define how it works. Feel free to use Wikpedia if you struggle
There is no single "how it works"...please, you can do better. There are multiple forms of DRM, from copy protection to manual codes to code wheels to Steamworks DRM--the sky is the limit. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this. He locks down the game, he locks down the forum, ergo it's all a form of DRM applied to the same game. Sorry that you refuse to see what I'm saying--I think it's very clear.
Posted March 31, 2018
That's nothing. You should see this game's store. You can buy towns for thousands of dollars and other ingame items, including gold that can be used to buy things to directly benefit your character's performance. The game should be called Shround of the Vending Machine.
Posted March 31, 2018
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waltc: DRM = digital rights management. Simple as that.
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rtcvb32: Rights/Restriction, more or less the same. It's all evil.
Yes, it's pretty clear--it's evil *and* it is dumb, dumb, dumb...;) I only wanted to ask a couple of questions--but he won't let me until I buy something--or in Steam's case--pay for the game entirely. Now he's royally teed me off and lost a sale..,what can you say?
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LootSeeker: That's nothing. You should see this game's store. You can buy towns for thousands of dollars and other ingame items, including gold that can be used to buy things to directly benefit your character's performance. The game should be called Shround of the Vending Machine.
Seriously? I had no idea it was that bad? It's not some sort of joke?...;) Ha-ha--you are right--worse than I thought...;) Shades of Star Citizen--Garriott is shooting for that, apparently...!...;) Too funny! Thanks for the info!
Post edited March 31, 2018 by waltc
Posted March 31, 2018
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amok: That's the acronym. Now define how it works. Feel free to use Wikpedia if you struggle
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waltc: There is no single "how it works"...please, you can do better. There are multiple forms of DRM, from copy protection to manual codes to code wheels to Steamworks DRM--the sky is the limit. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this. He locks down the game, he locks down the forum, ergo it's all a form of DRM applied to the same game. Sorry that you refuse to see what I'm saying--I think it's very clear.
No, it is not clear at all, and this is why many times, the DRM free people sometimes well... gets laughed at and not taken serious. Restricting access on forum is not DRM at all, if it is then everything done online is DRM, including using this forum, as you need and account to do so, and you can get banned and locked out. Not to mention search engine results, firewalls, ISP protocols and so on. Basically, the whole internet is then DRM, which just makes the term ridiculous and completely meaningless.

DRM is about the control of a software and the licenses you buy, that's it, nothing else, it has not. DRM are technologies that try to "control the use, modification, and distribution of copyrighted works" - that's it. nothing more or less
Post edited March 31, 2018 by amok
Posted March 31, 2018
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waltc: Yes, it's pretty clear--it's evil *and* it is dumb, dumb, dumb...;) I only wanted to ask a couple of questions--but he won't let me until I buy something--or in Steam's case--pay for the game entirely. Now he's royally teed me off and lost a sale..,what can you say?
Purchase on steam, as your question, then get a refund?

Although seems unlikely if it's not on steam..
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amok: DRM is about the control of a software and the licenses you buy, that's it, nothing else, it has not. DRM are technologies that try to "control the use, modification, and distribution of copyrighted works" - that's it. nothing more or less
Copyright really needs to drop down from the lifetime+70 to something like 15 years...
Post edited March 31, 2018 by rtcvb32
Posted March 31, 2018
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waltc: Yes, it's pretty clear--it's evil *and* it is dumb, dumb, dumb...;) I only wanted to ask a couple of questions--but he won't let me until I buy something--or in Steam's case--pay for the game entirely. Now he's royally teed me off and lost a sale..,what can you say?
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rtcvb32: Purchase on steam, as your question, then get a refund?

Although seems unlikely if it's not on steam..
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amok: DRM is about the control of a software and the licenses you buy, that's it, nothing else, it has not. DRM are technologies that try to "control the use, modification, and distribution of copyrighted works" - that's it. nothing more or less
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rtcvb32: Copyright really needs to drop down from the lifetime+70 to something like 15 years...
which is a completely different discussion.
Posted March 31, 2018
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waltc: There is no single "how it works"...please, you can do better. There are multiple forms of DRM, from copy protection to manual codes to code wheels to Steamworks DRM--the sky is the limit. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this. He locks down the game, he locks down the forum, ergo it's all a form of DRM applied to the same game. Sorry that you refuse to see what I'm saying--I think it's very clear.
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amok: No, it is not clear at all, and this is why many times, the DRM free people sometimes well... gets laughed at and not taken serious. Restricting access on forum is not DRM at all, if it is then everything done online is DRM, including using this forum, as you need and account to do so, and you can get banned and locked out. Not to mention search engine results, firewalls, ISP protocols and so on. Basically, the whole internet is then DRM, which just makes the term ridiculous and completely meaningless.

DRM is about the control of a software and the licenses you buy, that's it, nothing else, it has not. DRM are technologies that try to "control the use, modification, and distribution of copyrighted works" - that's it. nothing more or less
Guy, if there's no game associated with the forum, then I'd agree with you, of course. But there is--so how is it I can download and install the demo, patch it, create a SotA site account (which I have to do to get the demo)--but then cannot post on the SotA unless I spend $5 on some throw away junk? As I said, I can't post on the Steam site at all unless I *buy the game.* I think that your definition of "digital rights management" is far too limited, frankly. If you don't think that locking down the forum affects the sale and distribution of the game itself, then you'd be wrong, as this entire thread demonstrates. (Although it probably has the opposite effect on sales that Garriott thinks it has.) You are missing the forest here for the tree...;) There's really nothing I can add to what I've already said and repeated several times already.
Posted March 31, 2018
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amok: No, it is not clear at all, and this is why many times, the DRM free people sometimes well... gets laughed at and not taken serious. Restricting access on forum is not DRM at all, if it is then everything done online is DRM, including using this forum, as you need and account to do so, and you can get banned and locked out. Not to mention search engine results, firewalls, ISP protocols and so on. Basically, the whole internet is then DRM, which just makes the term ridiculous and completely meaningless.

DRM is about the control of a software and the licenses you buy, that's it, nothing else, it has not. DRM are technologies that try to "control the use, modification, and distribution of copyrighted works" - that's it. nothing more or less
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waltc: Guy, if there's no game associated with the forum, then I'd agree with you, of course. But there is--so how is it I can download and install the demo, patch it, create a SotA site account (which I have to do to get the demo)--but then cannot post on the SotA unless I spend $5 on some throw away junk? As I said, I can't post on the Steam site at all unless I *buy the game.* I think that your definition of "digital rights management" is far too limited, frankly. If you don't think that locking down the forum affects the sale and distribution of the game itself, then you'd be wrong, as this entire thread demonstrates. (Although it probably has the opposite effect on sales that Garriott thinks it has.) You are missing the forest here for the tree...;) There's really nothing I can add to what I've already said and repeated several times already.
Yes, posting on a forum is not DRM, as there is no "use, modification, and distribution of copyrighted works" involved.

The demo, and the game, may be DRM'd. A forum software may be DRM'd, but being allowed to post or not on a forum is not.
Posted March 31, 2018
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waltc: Guy, if there's no game associated with the forum, then I'd agree with you, of course. But there is--so how is it I can download and install the demo, patch it, create a SotA site account (which I have to do to get the demo)--but then cannot post on the SotA unless I spend $5 on some throw away junk? As I said, I can't post on the Steam site at all unless I *buy the game.* I think that your definition of "digital rights management" is far too limited, frankly. If you don't think that locking down the forum affects the sale and distribution of the game itself, then you'd be wrong, as this entire thread demonstrates. (Although it probably has the opposite effect on sales that Garriott thinks it has.) You are missing the forest here for the tree...;) There's really nothing I can add to what I've already said and repeated several times already.
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amok: Yes, posting on a forum is not DRM, as there is no "use, modification, and distribution of copyrighted works" involved.

The demo, and the game, may be DRM'd. A forum software may be DRM'd, but being allowed to post or not on a forum is not.
Begging your pardon, but you own the legal copyright to every word you post on the Internet--unless you sign those rights away in a EULA, or you yourself sell those rights. Copyright is automatic, actually. (Unlike patents or trademarks.) This is American copyright law--don't know about the UK/EU, certainly.
Post edited March 31, 2018 by waltc
Posted March 31, 2018
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amok: Yes, posting on a forum is not DRM, as there is no "use, modification, and distribution of copyrighted works" involved.

The demo, and the game, may be DRM'd. A forum software may be DRM'd, but being allowed to post or not on a forum is not.
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waltc: Begging your pardon, but you own the legal copyright to every word you post on the Internet--unless you sign those rights away in a EULA, or you yourself sell those rights. Copyright is automatic, actually. (Unlike patents or trademarks.)
well, if this is really the way you want to go, then congratulation. DRM as a term is from now completely useless, as it can apply to absolutely everything

DRM from to day truly means "everything I do not like"

DRM is specific, it as about software and the rights to its use.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGarriott's heavy-handed Steam DRM...! Unreal.(44 posts)(44 posts)
(44 posts)