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TheBigCore: The original System Shock.

This game has the worst controls I've ever seen in a PC game.
Cannot agree more!

I hate all games with QTE's

I also hate games that are timed or too damn long a.k.a. Fallout 4 survival difficulty where you have to TRAIPSE around because there is no fast travel and no way to save your game only when sleeping and no mods because mods kill the achievements!

Fallout 4 took me on survival difficulty five (5) YEARS to complete never a-fucking-gain and the walking speed HOLY F*CK Americans must be VERY VERY unhealthy if that is their walking speed.
Post edited September 28, 2019 by fr33kSh0w2012
Gyron for the ZX Spectrum, and the Adventure game Uninvited.
But that was back in the 1980s. I can't recall any games from the more modern Windows era that was so hard I couldn't finish them.
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TheBigCore: The original System Shock.

This game has the worst controls I've ever seen in a PC game.
It's funny, but I used twice as long time (20 vs 40 hours) to complete the mouselook version than the original. I was quite surprised, but I guess being 20 years older have made me slower.
Post edited September 28, 2019 by PetrusOctavianus
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Matewis: I do find myself a bit wary of heroes being too strong in fantasy TBSs like this. Age of Wonders 1 and 2 both suffers from this in a way that I find completely immersion breaking. Round about the 2nd half of the campaign onwards heroes become army killers all by themselves. You just start a level by sending your hero deep into enemy territory, absolutely wasting anything you come across. To me it's the one failing of two otherwise excellent games.
That's what I consider to be getting heroes right. If a really high level hero isn't an one-man army, don't consider them a hero, and find the game just frustrating. (Yeah, the much weaker heroes of AoW:SM pissed me off.)
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TheBigCore: The original System Shock.

This game has the worst controls I've ever seen in a PC game.
The enhanced version is much better, as it incorporates many features from the fan made system shock portable version. If you want I have a contest giving away a copy of that game in the general forums. ;)
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fr33kSh0w2012: Fallout 4 took me on survival difficulty five (5) YEARS to complete never a-fucking-gain and the walking speed HOLY F*CK Americans must be VERY VERY unhealthy if that is their walking speed.
To be fair many of us during the westward expansion era and similar took a good amount of time to get around before cars and such came on the scene, so that might be close to being accurate. o.0
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PetrusOctavianus: It's funny, but I used twice as long time (20 vs 40 hours) to complete the mouselook version than the original. I was quite surprised, but I guess being 20 years older have made me slower.
Or maybe you liked going through it sloe to enjoy it as long as possible? That is also a good answer and an acceptable reason to go through stuff slow imo. :)
Post edited September 28, 2019 by GameRager
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Cavalary: That's what I consider to be getting heroes right. If a really high level hero isn't an one-man army, don't consider them a hero, and find the game just frustrating. (Yeah, the much weaker heroes of AoW:SM pissed me off.)
To each his own I guess :)
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Daedalus1138: ...
As for defense segments, the worst part about them is that I like the idea so much. I love in FPS's and other genres where I'm tasked with defending something. There's something exciting and tense about trying to keep an attacking enemy from obtaining their objective, especially when that objective is something important to my character and his or her allies. But when it comes to RTS's, I just suck soooooo bad at them. I can't wrap my mind around the placement of my units, and the time pressure of knowing that the enemy is approaching and I don't have long to get everything in place just scrambles my brain.
Yeah, it's glorious when an FPS does it right. Defense of the hill in Vietcong comes to mind, as well the bunker map in AvP.

You might like the Stronghold series then? Troop placements doesn't matter too much there. It's more like: "put a blob of archers of here, and a blob of crossbowmen over there". Trouble, if memory serves, it's a difficult game regardless. I think Crusader is easier though.
Post edited September 28, 2019 by Matewis
Elminage Gothic's final bonus dungeon. Here's what you're up against:
* 20 dungeon levels, each, I believe, as large as a level from Wizardry 1 (which had only 10 dungeon levels for the *entire* game).
* The teleport spell does not work. There are shortcuts to levels 5, 10, and 15, at least.
* The encounters are downright unfair at times. For example, there are some archer enemies which get something like 2 actions per round, each of which includes 4 attacks for something like 300+ damage each, and which are much faster than your characters can possibly be. That enemy isn't even as strong as a similar enemy appearing later in the dungeon. This enemy (which often appears in groups) has been known to wipe out high level parties.
* Resurrection has side effects; it ages the character and lowers Vitality. Reloading a save also has side effects; your party will age a certain number of days each time, and the level will reset, causing placed encounters to respawn.
* The game actually expects you to reach about level 400 by the end (and you will likely enter the dungeon at double digit levels); even at such levels, the game can and will kill you.

(At least this dungeon isn't difficult to navigate, unlike some other dungeons in this game.)

(Also, at least I don't remember being teleported into solid rock; in the first floor of the first bonus dungeon, I had a certain enemy ambush my party and teleport everyone into solid rock, which causes the entire party to be lost forever; reloading is the only reasonable course of action in this situation.)
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Leroux: Owlboy/Cave Story/Super Panda Adventures - I'm stuck on some boss battles halfway through.
I've beaten Cave Story, but not the bonus dungeon because of the boss fight at the end where the camera rules change (the camera follows the boss instead of you).
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Cavalary: Final Fantasy 8, definitely not leveled enough for the final area, when stripped of all skills for that first boss fight there was absolutely no way to win with just regular attacks, tried dozens of times, even plenty of luck on the RNG still got me nowhere, and I had no intention of returning through the gates to grind, so just watched the rest on YT.
Haven't played it, but my understanding is that you can still junction spells to your stats and use those to kill the first boss there; it's a better choice than leveling up (and you can leave the final dungeon to draw more spells). Once you kill it, you can get some of your skills back (the choice you make should depend on your play style and what you've found to be useful).

Leveling up might actually be counter-productive.

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DadJoke007: Every true roguelike except Tales of Maj'Eyal
No shame in not being able to beat roguelikes, the only one I think is going to keep me motivated all the way through is Tales of Maj'Eyal. It might not be today, it might not be in 10 years, but one day I will finish it.
You can try roguelikes with meta-progress mechanics, like Tangledeep or even Shiren the Wanderer.

Or, of course, some of the other Mystery Dungeon games (like Pokemon Mystery Dungeon) technically qualify as roguelikes (albeit without permadeath), but are much easier.

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DadJoke007: Every bullet hell out there 1CC, the only true way to beat them (one credit clear)
How I've tried to achieve 1CC in all kinds of bullet hells, and how I've failed miserably. It's rewarding as all hell to strive for, but it feels unrealistic to actually achieve this goal.
The idea is this:
1. Practice.
2. Beat the game using continues, and then try to beat the game with fewer continues each time, until you get the number of continues down to zero.
3. If the game has a practice mode (Crimzon Clover does, for example), take advantage of it, and practice the parts where you find yourself losing lots of resources.

(I haven't beaten a game of this type, but then again I haven't made any serious attempts. (Well, actually I beat Jamestown on a laptop that couldn't run the game at full speed, if that countes.))
Post edited September 28, 2019 by dtgreene
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Dogmaus: I game I gave up maybe forever is Legend of Grimrock. I don't think it's too hard, but I had thrown away a necessary item and couln't progress withouth it. I think that a game becoming unwinnable without even telling the player is unacceptable game design and won't play again. I have spent hours trying to figure out why I was stuck and that totally spoiled the fun. It's a pity, because I was enjoying it.
Funny thing is, this sort of game design (where a game can become unwinnable if you miss an important item) actually works in Wizardry 4, surprisingly. (It helps you that the game tells you when you're about to pass the point of no return.)

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teceem: I also quit conversations with people who use the words "save scumming".
I detest that term as well, as that term implies that saving (and reloading) is rather bad, and I feel it encourages the bad habit of not saving.

Actually, the stance I take is this:
* If a player abuses save-reload, that's not a problem, and is not something that needs to be "fixed". In particular, a game developer should not take measures to prevent this.
* On the other hand, if the game design encourages save-reload, then the game design is flawed and really should be fixed. (Examples of offending gameplay elements are random stat gains on level up (particularly if there's a level cap and you aren't guaranteed to max stats by that point), resurrection failure chances (with harsh consequences on failure, including permanent character loss), and random treasures that don't respawn (Icewind Dale and Wizardry 8 are examples of games with this issue).)

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jepsen1977: Shin megami Tensei: Lucifer's Call

The over the top difficulty with some ot the battles and bosses were just too much for me. Some enemies would just completely fuck me over with abilities that would hit my weakness in terms of buffs. Great game but super high difficulty.
I remember playing Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne on hard difficulty, but ended up quitting for two reasons:
* The combination of instant death attacks used by enemies, the main character's death being instant game over (even if you have another party member with a revive ability), and the fact that you can only save in certain spots and have to reload after each game over.
* The music in that game was giving me headaches.
Post edited September 28, 2019 by dtgreene
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Matewis: I suppose now that you mention it :\ A good final boss fight seems like a rarity. In fact I can't seem to think of one right now. Perhaps the first Prince of Persia, or Broforce? Can think of plenty of bad ones in any case.
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Leroux: I think what I don't like about many of them is how they're different from the regular gameplay. They're not like normal opponents, only a bit tougher or trickier to beat, instead they're often like detached mini-games with their own rules. And they often take place in arenas where you're stressfully close to the opponents and have no way of retreat. Plus, they're like bottlenecks or roadblocks, if those terms make any sense here. If you can't beat them or don't feel like beating them just yet, the game comes to a halt. You can't just do anything else and come back later, because they block off further progress on a more or less linear path. And last but not least, not a few of them additionally punish you for failure, be it with loss of something or other, having to repeat the long walk to the boss again or even just having to watch the unskippable cutscenes before the boss battle over and over again. It just takes you out of the flow. For me they are like intermission hoops to jump through so I can continue enjoying the game.
I have this problem with stealth sections. While I have beaten Ocarina of Time more than once, I probably won't replay it ever again because of those unfun insta-fail stealth sections.

(With that said, apparently there's a randomizer for this game that has an option to remove the stealth sections. Also, perhaps I should mention that my favorite dungeon in that game is the Water Temple, but the boss of that temple is not fun, particularly since when you get hit, you lose control for way too long.)

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timppu: Perma-death roguegames (Nethack, ADOM etc.): I always save-scum on them, if possible. I just feel it is sadistic to strip the gamer from all their achievements of playing a character for days or weeks, quite often due to sheer bad luck, like dying instantly into a trap or some special monster that petrifies you or whatever. I fail to see the fun in having to replay the game from the start repeatedly.
It occurs to me that, while playing Tangledeep, I have never once been instantly killed; it seems that mechanic just doesn't actually exist.

(Of course, I play on Adventurer mode, where death simply makes you lose half your gold and return to town, but that still doesn't change the fact that instant-death attacks don't seem to exist in that game.)
Post edited September 28, 2019 by dtgreene
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Daedalus1138: ...
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Matewis: I was about to ask about Warcraft 3 until I got to the part on defense segments :) WC3 has 3 of them, and each is formidable. At least you can slow down the game speed a lot if that helps.

Which Dawn of War did you complete? Dark Crusade imo has the best single player campaign. I don't think it has any defense segment missions. Not that I can remember at least.
There is defense mission in Winter Assault, where you play with Imperial Guards and cover Eldars from Orks?
What stuck in me, when I've played it years ago, is the mysteriously slow resource generation. For example with +125 Requisition you can pump out basic infantry units, one after another.
But in that particular mission even with twice that value of generated Req you had hard time building infantry.
Copying from another thread, the reason why I (for now) have quit Wonder Boy in Monster World (which otherwise isn't that hard a game, except maybe the final boss in the US version):

laying Wonder Boy in Monster World on my Sega Genesis Mini, and I encountered a case of awful game design. (This is in the second to last level, I believe.)

* Two rooms of mini bosses. This isn't the part that is bad game design (though I *hate* the fact that offensive magic seems to do no damage to bosses and mini-bosses in this game).
* After the second mini boss, you go through a door.
* Immediately on the other side of the door, you are on platforms that will dip down if you don't immediately jump; there's no chance to study the room at this point, as there's no solid ground you can use to get your bearings.
* When you fall (which you inevitably will if it's your first time playing and you aren't familiar with the room), you have to fight the second mini boss *again* before you can go back and retry that tricky platforming section again.

That's mean game design. (At least troll games aren't that mean, as they aren't going to require re-fighting a mini boss every time you fail the way this game does at this point.)
Wasteland 2 as a loner
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TheBigCore: The original System Shock.

This game has the worst controls I've ever seen in a PC game.
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GameRager: The enhanced version is much better, as it incorporates many features from the fan made system shock portable version. If you want I have a contest giving away a copy of that game in the general forums. ;)
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fr33kSh0w2012: Fallout 4 took me on survival difficulty five (5) YEARS to complete never a-fucking-gain and the walking speed HOLY F*CK Americans must be VERY VERY unhealthy if that is their walking speed.
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GameRager: To be fair many of us during the westward expansion era and similar took a good amount of time to get around before cars and such came on the scene, so that might be close to being accurate. o.0
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PetrusOctavianus: It's funny, but I used twice as long time (20 vs 40 hours) to complete the mouselook version than the original. I was quite surprised, but I guess being 20 years older have made me slower.
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GameRager: Or maybe you liked going through it sloe to enjoy it as long as possible? That is also a good answer and an acceptable reason to go through stuff slow imo. :)
I already own System Shock Enhanced Edition, but having to constantly switch between controls is still very clumsy. I stopped playing because of it. At least with a game like Descent and its sequels, you just need a joystick alongside the keyboard and you're fine.
Also i think i could never beat the worms armageddon mission with an eiffel tower. Tried it many times but no.
I'm pretty bad at strategy games, so I never finished the GDI campaign in Command & Conquer or any campaign in Red Alert. I'm also terrible at platformers, so I have never finished any platform game, ever, going back to the original Super Marios Bros.
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TheBigCore: I already own System Shock Enhanced Edition, but having to constantly switch between controls is still very clumsy. I stopped playing because of it. At least with a game like Descent and its sequels, you just need a joystick alongside the keyboard and you're fine.
Joystick? When you can play with a mouse?