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General discussionGames that gets better the longer you play(57 posts)(57 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 03, 2015
Arcanum,Shadow of the Horned Rat,Jade Empire,Battle Realms.
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Telika: Oh, Divine Divinity. Forgot about it. It's one of my very favorite RPGs ever. It's also the game with the worst beginning. The village part, a big intro, is just tedious and ugly. It made me abandon the game a couple of times. Once the world opens to you, the game becomes so terrific that your awkward first contact with it feels like a different game's memory.

Some games start with a dangerous wall of boredom, like that, that may shield you from their awesome content. Heck, there was a time where it was even done on purpose, to discourage piracy, as the game would get ignored after 3 minutes by those who have a million other stolen games to try out, while those who invested money in it would tend to endure the start and be rewarded by the proper game. Psygnosis's Infestation was typical of that, if i remember well (looked like a cheap generic shooter before you entered an underground complex and discovered a spectacular Aliens-like gameplay).

There's probably a list of games deliberately doing that. It would be interesting to dig it out as a side subject.
The first dungeon of the game is one of the most boring things ever. After the world opens than it becomes one of the best CRPGs ever made.
Post edited October 03, 2015 by l0rdtr3k
Posted October 03, 2015
Well, well, well...
Morrowind, Planescape: Torment, Gothic series, Risen (at least the first one), Deus Ex, any roguelike, Witcher saga, and almost any city building game out there. The list goes on...
Posted October 03, 2015
Fallout and Fallout 2. You start out with shitty weapons and no armor. Then you have to kill rats, scorpions and run for your life every time you encounter really dangerous enemies etc. Boring and annoying. But if you keep going, both these games get better and better and better until reality doesn't matter anymore.
Post edited October 03, 2015 by monkeydelarge
Posted October 03, 2015
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Telika: Oh, Divine Divinity. Forgot about it. It's one of my very favorite RPGs ever. It's also the game with the worst beginning. The village part, a big intro, is just tedious and ugly. It made me abandon the game a couple of times.
I guess it's time for me to consider trying it once more (a third or fourth time, IIRC).
Posted October 03, 2015
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dtgreene: I suspect the original Baldur's Gate might be like that. The thing is, at the start of the game, you are level 1 for quite a while, and the game doesn't work well at low levels. (Physical attacks missing, mages having to rest after every spell to cast another.) Once you gain some levels, you get more strategic options and your fighters start getting reasonable accuracy against enemies with poor AC, so I suspect the game gets more fun.

Then again, I haven't played the game enough for this to happen.

Of note, if I do go back to the game, I will likely find a scroll to duplicate and exploit that glitch. Or, alternatively, use the console to give my character 5,000 or so XP at the start (enough to raise a single class character to level 3).
The first Baldur's Gate game is pure hell in the beginning but gets better towards the end. In the beginning, one fucking winter wolf can wipe out your entire party in a very short time.
Posted October 03, 2015
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Telika: Oh, Divine Divinity. Forgot about it. It's one of my very favorite RPGs ever. It's also the game with the worst beginning. The village part, a big intro, is just tedious and ugly. It made me abandon the game a couple of times. Once the world opens to you, the game becomes so terrific that your awkward first contact with it feels like a different game's memory.

Some games start with a dangerous wall of boredom, like that, that may shield you from their awesome content. Heck, there was a time where it was even done on purpose, to discourage piracy, as the game would get ignored after 3 minutes by those who have a million other stolen games to try out, while those who invested money in it would tend to endure the start and be rewarded by the proper game. Psygnosis's Infestation was typical of that, if i remember well (looked like a cheap generic shooter before you entered an underground complex and discovered a spectacular Aliens-like gameplay).

There's probably a list of games deliberately doing that. It would be interesting to dig it out as a side subject.
Thanks for that. I've quit Divine Divinity twice right at the beginning because it just didn't seem promising at all and I went "oof, this is lame all around, the writing especially, what is all the fuss about? *snooooze* well I suppose people like to fuss about things and think they're good when I don't hold the same opinion, so that's probably the case here." and I moved on. This motivates me to give it another try sometime (sooner than I would have, I still haven't given up on it because I am aware I barely played any of it) and whenever that is I'll be sure to power through the beginning and force myself to get deeper to make sure. I love a good RPG, and am always looking for more.
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awalterj: Of all the classic FPS I've played, the levels in Duke3D translated the best to multiplayer. Even for 1 on 1 as some of the maps are very compact. In singleplayer, I appreciated the level design but in multiplayer I learned to worship it. Some of my favorite levels are Tiberius Station and L.A. Rumble. Feels like playing hide & seek in your house as a kid but on steroids. Very literally, because Duke can move extremely fast with steroids which can result in very frantic and challenging matches. Especially if you're controlling a jetpack, aiming at the opponent, cycling through weapons and using medikits all at the same time. Optimizing key mapping became a science and had a real effect on individual performance. I think I'm a little past all that excitement but Duke3D provided many memorable adrenaline rushes and it kept getting better and better once you knew every nook and cranny of a level.
As usual, very well said! I experienced the same thing in my days of playing that MP. Yeah, I had fun running around the maps and hunting my friend right from the get-go, but, once we *knew* the maps, it was ON! I specifically remember the development of going from hiding behind the curtain in the theater being a great place to ambush from to it being a horrible idea because they would then anticipate it happening and behave accordingly. *so now I'm going to hide up here in the projector room because they think I'm hiding down behind the curtain* WHAM! And so and and so on.
Post edited October 03, 2015 by drealmer7
Posted October 03, 2015
I'm thinking Bloodbowl but that's pure learning curve - if you throw yourself in at the deep end you hit a bewildering array of abilities that give different bonuses in different situation and all interact in unexpected rock-paper-scissors type ways
Then there's all the races and play styles (running, throwing, overpowering etc.) How do you know which is best and suits you best? Which do you choose? And how do you play AGAINST them all?
But slowly, especially if you use the tutorial 'story' mode introduced in Legendary Edition, it all starts to fall into place and you find yourself thinking through the plays and finally really start to take the AI to task and score some touchdowns!
But then you get SO good that it becomes routine and you take AI teams apart without thinking, but it's still fun to come back to every so often if you give yourself a bit of time to forget a little and fall out of 'the zone'
Post edited October 03, 2015 by Fever_Discordia
Posted October 04, 2015
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drealmer7: As usual, very well said! I experienced the same thing in my days of playing that MP. Yeah, I had fun running around the maps and hunting my friend right from the get-go, but, once we *knew* the maps, it was ON! I specifically remember the development of going from hiding behind the curtain in the theater being a great place to ambush from to it being a horrible idea because they would then anticipate it happening and behave accordingly. *so now I'm going to hide up here in the projector room because they think I'm hiding down behind the curtain* WHAM! And so and and so on.
Ah yes, the hiding places! It was the same for us, worked at first but after a while we started shooting RPGs or tossing pipe bombs** into any suspect place just to be sure. Wasting ammo isn't a problem in 1 on 1 because you can quickly do the rounds where everything spawns - which is always in the same spots. Of course you had to change the way you did the rounds otherwise you'd become predictable. Problem is when you die and need to go get the RPG and the opponent is already waiting nearby, on the other hand this is risky for them too for aforementioned reasons. In the first level, there are two spots that spawn an RPG so trying to lay an ambush would make little to no sense. We soon found out that camping could get you killed even if you're at 200/100 whereas if you keep moving in irregular zigzag motion like a rabbit chances are much lower that you get killed. As soon as one plays in LAN with 3 people or more, one can capitalize on situations where two people are circling each other by safely sniping at them from a fixed point but in 1 on 1, standing still means death.

The most fun thing of all was to shrink the opponent and let him run around the floor frantically before you finally stomped him to death. This was also exciting for the player who got shrunk because sometimes you'd get away. What I didn't like was getting frozen and having to look at the other player jumping up and down in front of my face before getting shattered to many pieces. All these things are only mildly entertaining in singleplayer but deeply memorable in multiplayer. I don't think I got anywhere near as many hours out of any other FPS.


** regarding pipe bombs, it was vital never to carry the maximum amount, otherwise you wouldn't be able to pick up a pipe bomb that got thrown your way if you happened to see or hear it. It can be very funny when two players try to pipe bomb trap each other and both are running past each other with triggers in their hands. Much awkwardness.
Post edited October 04, 2015 by awalterj
Posted October 04, 2015
Morrowind, Baldur's Gate 1, Icewind Dale 1&2, Resident Evil 4, and Borderlands 1&2

I would mention Baldur's Gate 2 but that game was good from beginning to end.
Posted October 04, 2015
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Telika: Master of Magic, Alpha Centauri, etc. All these Civ-ish games that start with very weirdly short turns, where you just move one tile away and "uh, that's it ?", before developping into hours-long turns with epic stuff taking place everywhere.

If you don't know what to expect, the first turns may look confusingly empty, before the game gets its actual momentum.
Problem is that the more times you play the game the more you realize how poor the AI is.
So any one game of Civ or similar gets more fun with every turn, but at some point you master the game and realize there's not much challenge anymore, and that every time you play it tends to follow the same formula. Talking of Civ 1 and 2 specifically here.

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dtgreene: I suspect the original Baldur's Gate might be like that. The thing is, at the start of the game, you are level 1 for quite a while, and the game doesn't work well at low levels. (Physical attacks missing, mages having to rest after every spell to cast another.) Once you gain some levels, you get more strategic options and your fighters start getting reasonable accuracy against enemies with poor AC, so I suspect the game gets more fun.

Then again, I haven't played the game enough for this to happen.

Of note, if I do go back to the game, I will likely find a scroll to duplicate and exploit that glitch. Or, alternatively, use the console to give my character 5,000 or so XP at the start (enough to raise a single class character to level 3).
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monkeydelarge: The first Baldur's Gate game is pure hell in the beginning but gets better towards the end. In the beginning, one fucking winter wolf can wipe out your entire party in a very short time.
That's why scouting is so important in the BG games, especially in the beginning. It lets you choose your own battles, and adds some strategy to the game.
Post edited October 04, 2015 by PetrusOctavianus
Posted October 04, 2015
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infinite9: Morrowind, Baldur's Gate 1, Icewind Dale 1&2, Resident Evil 4, and Borderlands 1&2

I would mention Baldur's Gate 2 but that game was good from beginning to end.
In the case of Morrowind, there are major exploits that even a low level character can use to break the game. Hence, even low level characters can do things like jump across the world, make arbitrary deals with merchants (sell common items for all of a merchant's gold), create potions that boost your stats to ridiculously high levels, and be able to stand toe-to-toe with powerful monsters.

Luck potions, if strong enough, solve everything. I was able to make, with the help of a Fortify Alchemy 800 points, some potions that boosted luck 416 points for over 1200 seconds (that's 20 minutes!) each. Drink 5 of them, and now the potions I make give a boost of 520 for (I believe) over 1500 seconds (25 minutes!) each. Also, all my spells can be reliably cast, and if I were to get into a battle with that much luck, I would have an easy time hitting the enemy and the enemy would not likely be able to hit me back.

If it weren't for part of the main quest requiring you be level 3, it would be possible to beat the game at level 1. In fact, it is (at least in 1.0) if you skip much of the main quest. (By the way, in a speed run, the fastest skill to use for gaining the two required levels is Mercantile; when you have enough luck to reliably make arbitrary deals with merchants, it becomes absurdly easy to level up that skill.)
Posted October 04, 2015
I think in general a game is going to get better as you play it (if it starts at the peak and goes down from there, not only is that hard to pull off and highly unlikely, but, generally not how a game works.) I think the idea of the OP was something a bit different, but, whatever. Something that comes to mind for me is AI: Wars, just like most deeper strategy games I'd imagine, it has a bit of a steep learning curve and a lot to it but once you start to grasp it it really starts to shine.
Post edited October 04, 2015 by drealmer7
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussionGames that gets better the longer you play(57 posts)(57 posts)
(57 posts)