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Ancient-Red-Dragon: The only thing I can think of that might possibly stop them from doing that would be worries over lawsuits.
I'd guess they're much more worried about customer backlash than lawsuits (unless I misremember, T&Cs don't exclude / allow for removals from library).

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PaterAlf: I guess in that case you're absolutely for games not getting any patches and updates? Because every patch and update removes the game you originally bought and replaces it with a different game.
A patch can be applied or not, and usually even be removed.
And it requires the base game to remain available, as it doesn't stand alone.

I think Ancient-Red-Dragon refers to updates (change) of the base packages available for download, together with a removal of the previous ones.

The difference is whether the game as it was when you purchased it is still available in (downloadable from) your library or not.
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金黒: A patch can be applied or not, and usually even be removed.
And it requires the base game to remain available, as it doesn't stand alone.
On GOG not really. Most often the patches are not available as standalone downloads. Instead the game gets a new installer. Also it would be a logistic nightmare (for GOG as well as for the customers) to give everyone the game in its unpatched form at the moment they bought it and every patch and update after that as a standalone installer. A game like Cave of Qud for example got several hundred patches and updates since the day it was released. Do you really expect everyone to handle that manually years after the release?

And please don't misunderstand me. I'm absolutely for patches and updates. I just wanted to point out that ACDs argument is nonsense. Also that's the great thing with DRM-free installers. If anyone want that, they can make backups from every installer, patch and update from the moment they've bought the game. We don't need GOG to do it for us.
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jcoa: Oxenfree is leaving Itch by October 1, and is even bring removed from people's Itch libraries even if purchased. I don't know if they will remove it from GOG and GOG owned libraries in the same manner, but you may want to download it while you can.
Thank you for the warning. Was this communicated anywhere or did I miss something?

As it would be strange to remove purchased games in silence from users accounts without even give them any kind of warning before so they can download & backup their game files at least.
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ditorius: Thank you for the warning. Was this communicated anywhere or did I miss something?

As it would be strange to remove purchased games in silence from users accounts without even give them any kind of warning before so they can download & backup their game files at least.
Night School Studio sent e-mails to all customers who bought it on itch.io
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ditorius: Thank you for the warning. Was this communicated anywhere or did I miss something?

As it would be strange to remove purchased games in silence from users accounts without even give them any kind of warning before so they can download & backup their game files at least.
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ssling: Night School Studio sent e-mails to all customers who bought it on itch.io
Thank you for that info since I got no mail, just saw it accidentally in this thread.

Thanks to you guys I got the chance to backup the game! :)
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ditorius: Thank you for that info since I got no mail, just saw it accidentally in this thread.

Thanks to you guys I got the chance to backup the game! :)
Well, then maybe not to all customers. I don't own the game there, just read it in a news articles.
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ditorius: Thank you for that info since I got no mail, just saw it accidentally in this thread.

Thanks to you guys I got the chance to backup the game! :)
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ssling: Well, then maybe not to all customers. I don't own the game there, just read it in a news articles.
People that bought the BRE bundle, have the game in the bundle page (where it lists all games), but it does not show up in their "My Library" page until they hit the Download button in the bundle page. This is probably why the email didn't go out to many.

I think I saw at least one other game from a charity megabundles removed, but I think it was a minor game with no steam release.
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PaterAlf: Also that's the great thing with DRM-free installers. If anyone want that, they can make backups from every installer, patch and update from the moment they've bought the game. We don't need GOG to do it for us.
That argument applies equally to removals.
So I don't think it really proves Ancient-Red-Dragon's argument to be "nonsense".

I personally think he has a good point. Namely, that overwriting updates are a kind of removal: that of a given artefact (version of the game) which can't be recovered.

I understand you might mind updates much less than removals, maybe even not at all.
That's a reasonable opinion, but it doesn't mean they have absolutely nothing in common.
Picture for example the case of "remaster" updates, where the developer comes up with a fully revamped look-and-feel for the game. Or a compatibility update, that would add support for a newer systems but simultaneously remove compatibility with another legacy system.
I'm sure you can see the value in keeping pre-update versions available in those cases? And thus, also acknowledge that something of value would be lost by losing access to those versions.
Indeed, GOG seems to agree (most likely because a significant proportion of its customers agree) with this as in such cases they usually endeavor to maintain access to the old versions, one way or another.

I think you're only arguing that the value lost with most overwriting updates is, to you, completely trivial (which is fair). Am I wrong?
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Updates used to be optional back in the age of physical media. The 1.0 release version of the game that was printed on the disc was immutable and yours to keep as long as the medium lasted. Nobody could do anything to your copy, even if licenses expired, deals ran out or someone suddenly went mental and started censoring stuff or something. And it is one of the few things where physical is still clearly superior and why I still occasionally try to hunt down second hand physical copies of some games. Because the disc still has the same game, even 15 years after release. Case in point - The GTA Collection, which still has the complete soundtrack.

You then manually applied the released patches you wanted on your base game version. And yes, I too consider that the optimal scenario. The problem is of course, that 90+% (if not more) absolutely don't care about this. Handling patches instead of stores just always giving you the latest version would require action/a bit of effort/patch note reading from the consumer side, and we know most people don't want to bother. So this old system basically died for the sake of convenience for the masses. That and the fact that most games release so unfinished these days, the amount of patches is not really manageable.
Post edited September 11, 2024 by idbeholdME
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金黒: I think you're only arguing that the value lost with most overwriting updates is, to you, completely trivial (which is fair). Am I wrong?
I argue that it isn't a big issue on GOG. They already give us two options to avoid it. We could either get backup copies ourselves (which is the main advantage of DRM-free and which everybody should) or we could use Galaxy and roll back to a former version, if we accidently install one that breaks stuff for us.

Also updates are not mandatory on GOG. Even with Galaxy we can disable them and only install the ones we want.

I don't know any other online store for games that gives us so many options to avoid the problem.
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PaterAlf: I argue that it isn't a big issue on GOG.
Agreed!
That's definitely one of the advantages of buying here.
Although offering some contractual guarantees that nothing purchased would ever "disappear" (bar legal issues, obviously) would give GOG some additional headway IMO (as it would relieve the customer from the necessity of caring for or managing backups), it's already quite good as it is.

They could offer the same level of experience (with regard to this) between Galaxy and offline installers though, but that's a different topic.
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PaterAlf: I just wanted to point out that ACDs argument is nonsense. Also that's the great thing with DRM-free installers. If anyone want that, they can make backups from every installer, patch and update from the moment they've bought the game. We don't need GOG to do it for us.
Hyperbole and whatnot aside, there is still a good point buried in ACD's post...that gamers should be on the watch for such removals and push back against them when one can, lest we end up seeing the slippery slope of content removal from games and other media slowly becoming more and more of a reality.

As for backing up one's game including all content, that's only a viable (and wise) strategy for those who buy the games and back them up before content is removed.
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idbeholdME: Updates used to be optional back in the age of physical media. The 1.0 release version of the game that was printed on the disc was immutable and yours to keep as long as the medium lasted. Nobody could do anything to your copy, even if licenses expired, deals ran out or someone suddenly went mental and started censoring stuff or something. And it is one of the few things where physical is still clearly superior and why I still occasionally try to hunt down second hand physical copies of some games. Because the disc still has the same game, even 15 years after release. Case in point - The GTA Collection, which still has the complete soundtrack.
*slow clap* Well said, my skeletal friend.
Post edited September 12, 2024 by GamezRanker
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Getting thread back on topic as a tracker thread:
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/delisting_breach_clear_will_be_removed_from_the_store_on_september_13th
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金黒: I think you're only arguing that the value lost with most overwriting updates is, to you, completely trivial (which is fair). Am I wrong?
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PaterAlf: I argue that it isn't a big issue on GOG. They already give us two options to avoid it. We could either get backup copies ourselves (which is the main advantage of DRM-free and which everybody should) or we could use Galaxy and roll back to a former version, if we accidently install one that breaks stuff for us.

Also updates are not mandatory on GOG. Even with Galaxy we can disable them and only install the ones we want.

I don't know any other online store for games that gives us so many options to avoid the problem.
1st: A wise person should always backup a game they purchase, I always do. Just like i did for all dvd/bluray games.
2nd: This is why i hate steam, as they don't see it as the players buying a game, they see it as the player buying a licence. Which is complete crap.
There are a few steam games i wish were on GOG but i don't think it will happen, Namely ATS/ETS, Satisfactory, Elite dangerous, Space engineers, Stationeers, Subnautica, Valhiem and a few others but these are my main ones.

Also wasn't Nightingale pre-release on Gog, I can't find it anymore. Was it removed?
Post edited 3 days ago by Linrox01
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4 games from Adult Swim will leave the catalog on September 30th