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General discussionGame Signup - Secret Hitler #4 - Herlock Sholmes Edition!(111 posts)(111 posts)
(111 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted January 24, 2022
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joppo: Votes made public with the election result is the way to go.
Again, please clarify for me... Do I

A) list each vote as it comes in -- eg ZFR = Yea, Joppo = Nay etc in more or less real time so you as the next person who happens to vote knows not only the semi-current vote tally but also how folks voted?
or
B) only the list vote tally (Yeas vs Nays but not who voted how) until after the vote in finalized, at which point I say how each person voted.

I'm leaning towards A), myself. I'd just as soon scrap B)

There is also option C
C) One time the mod went with A) (above) but also allowed "private voting" (perhaps only for the Fs?)--where you could say "yea" in public, "nay" in private. Your "Yea" vote was publicly displayed, but when the final vote tally was completed and "the Polls Had Closed" your "Real (private) Vote" was displayed instead; until that point your fellow players thought you were voting the other way.

FOR EXAMPLE:

Zeo & HSL are the candidates.
Profterodactyl says "Vote Yes!" in his forum post, but then turns to me and says "actually, that's a Private NO vote." Everyone else votes "Yea"
I list it publicly as

Provisional Vote Count
Yea = X: Prof, Zeo, HSL, etc
When everyone has voted, I then post
Final Vote Count
Yeas = 9 : Zeo, HSL, etc
Nays = 1 : Prof

Resolution Passes, Zeo and HSL are elected for this term. Everyone except them may resume talking. Zeo and HSL are bound to silence until they have finished their actions.
At this point the observant fact checker realizes that Prof said "Yes" in the forum, but is listed as "NO" in the Final Vote Count. therefore, he changed his vote via DM for reasons known or unknown.

+++++++++++

@Dedo allowing private voting as method C describes can help the Fs and hurts the Libs. It makes more work for the mod, and adds a twist to those in the dark, making them think thoughts like, "why did he change his vote? Did he distrust one of the candidates? Is he a F? Did he make some stupid promise to vote no on every government until one was voted down?"

I enjoyed both ways; there are plusses and minuses to Option C. However, I want this game to be fun for you, the players, which is why I am asking instead of just deciding.

I look forward to hearing the thoughts of those SH vets on the merits of A) vs C)

++++++++++

Also, iirc, there is no rule stating that people have to vote in order of seat number (and yes, @ZFR, I will be rerolling the seat numbers). So, if you are seat 6, you don't have to wait until seats 1-5 have voted before you can vote.
Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
Posted January 24, 2022
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joppo: Votes made public with the election result is the way to go.
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Microfish_1: Again, please clarify for me... Do I

A) list each vote as it comes in -- eg ZFR = Yea, Joppo = Nay etc in more or less real time so you as the next person who happens to vote knows not only the semi-current vote tally but also how folks voted?
or
B) only the list vote tally (Yeas vs Nays but not who voted how) until after the vote in finalized, at which point I say how each person voted.

I'm leaning towards A), myself. I'd just as soon scrap B)

There is also option C
C) One time the mod went with A) (above) but also allowed "private voting" (perhaps only for the Fs?)--where you could say "yea" in public, "nay" in private. Your "Yea" vote was publicly displayed, but when the final vote tally was completed and "the Polls Had Closed" your "Real (private) Vote" was displayed instead; until that point your fellow players thought you were voting the other way.

+++++++++++

...

I look forward to hearing the thoughts of those SH vets on the merits of A) vs C)
I am in no way a veterean, but if I may: option C isn't really viable because it's in the interest of liberals to do everything transparently. Only fascists have a hidden agenda i.e. a reason to say one thing and then act opposite to their words. If anyone says they liked a government proposal but then later it is showed they sabotaged them, it's not like it will be hard to notice that player X's vote didn't match their claimed vote. That player will be labeled an uncovered fascist for the rest of the game.

If we go with option C, fascists will be tied into pretending they are liberals, and effectively we will be playing option A.

Fair enough if you want to ditch option B. A and B are both viable and it's your call there.

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Microfish_1: Also, iirc, there is no rule stating that people have to vote in order of seat number (and yes, @ZFR, I will be rerolling the seat numbers). So, if you are seat 6, you don't have to wait until seats 1-5 have voted before you can vote.
Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
Nope you're already correct here.
Post edited January 24, 2022 by joppo
Posted January 24, 2022
How does the voting work in the actual game? Doesn't it make more sense if once the government proposal is put up to vote all votes are private but also simultaneous so there are no take-backsies (RL counterpart of this would be everyone putting up their selected Ja/Nein card and then reveling it at the same time) as opposed to people voting openly in or out of order (in which case the later you place your vote the more information you would have to work with while people may suspect you more because you didn't act in favor of the liberals instantly)?
Posted January 24, 2022
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dedoporno: How does the voting work in the actual game? Doesn't it make more sense if once the government proposal is put up to vote all votes are private but also simultaneous so there are no take-backsies (RL counterpart of this would be everyone putting up their selected Ja/Nein card and then reveling it at the same time) as opposed to people voting openly in or out of order (in which case the later you place your vote the more information you would have to work with while people may suspect you more because you didn't act in favor of the liberals instantly)?
Yes, though there are "backsies" before the votes are revealed. If a player is taking time thinking how to vote, someone else can change his mind in the meantime.

But the main point remains: once all results are locked, all are revealed. No going back then.

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Microfish_1: Again, please clarify for me... Do I

A) list each vote as it comes in -- eg ZFR = Yea, Joppo = Nay etc in more or less real time so you as the next person who happens to vote knows not only the semi-current vote tally but also how folks voted?
or
B) only the list vote tally (Yeas vs Nays but not who voted how) until after the vote in finalized, at which point I say how each person voted.
List no results at all.

Only say who voted: e.g. ZFR and Joppo voted. Still waiting on Joe.

Don't say how many Nays and Yeas. Only reveal the total once everyone has voted. In which case you say who voted what and tally up.

In forum you're allowed to shout whatever you want, and it's not binding. Only the PM vote counts.


To summarise:

During vote: No info given (only who voted and waiting on whom)
After vote: Reveal everything
Post edited January 24, 2022 by ZFR
Posted January 24, 2022
fair enough, as I said or thought earlier, i've been in discord games where we used both A & C, so i didn't recal how y'all folks preferred to play.

Yeah, in the one discord game where all votes were public (option C) I was dumb enough to insist that i wouldn't vote yes until after a gov was voted down. For principles & the memes. I was also on teh Fs. The first 2 or 3 govs passed and I was the first F to get the role of pres...and I had to vote myself down or face the music. I don't recall which I chose! :D
Posted January 24, 2022
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ZFR: But the main point remains: once all results are locked, all are revealed. No going back then.
That was my point as well. Obviously people can change their minds for whatever reason before the reveal but not after, and any information the vote was based for is more likely to be speculation rather than concrete knowledge that X voted in a specific way.

What ZFR wrote is pretty much what I had in mind but I even question the need of knowing who already made up their mind and voted rather than just provide a total number of cast votes without disclosing the names of the voters. In a real life game one may read into who votes how fast or if someone prepares a card and then later on changes it. In a forum setting this isn't possible unless you announce each and every change to a vote a seat has done.


Dedo placed a vote.

ZFR placed a vote.

Dedo placed a vote.

Dedo placed a vote.


In a RL game the above may mean a number of different things. Maybe I voted Nein! first but, then changed my mind to Ja! but finally decided against it and went back to my initial choice. Or maybe I thought about reconsidering and was about to revert to the initial option but ultimately decided to roll with it and kept the Ja! card. Or maybe I faked the whole consideration for whatever reason and even though I appeared to change my card twice it was all a charade and I was always going to reveal the Nein! card in the end. All these little intricacies are lost unless each and every action is accounted for without actually revealing the information behind it. The fact that not everyone is always online makes this even harder to keep track of and may invoke false perception on things.
Posted January 24, 2022
Joe?
Posted January 24, 2022
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dedoporno: All these little intricacies are lost unless each and every action is accounted for without actually revealing the information behind it. The fact that not everyone is always online makes this even harder to keep track of and may invoke false perception on things.
Agreed. When zeogold hosted he actually did announce each and every action (vote/unvote) to simulate players putting/removing their vote cards, but I agree that in a forum setting this might be too much trouble.
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JoeSapphire: Joe?
Micro wanted to start the game without you. But I said: if you don't wait for my best friend Joe, then I'm not playing.
Post edited January 24, 2022 by ZFR
Posted January 24, 2022
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ZFR: Micro wanted to start the game without you. But I said: if you don't wait for my best friend Joe, then I'm not playing.
You also said that?!
Posted January 24, 2022
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ZFR: Agreed. When zeogold hosted he actually did announce each and every action (vote/unvote) to simulate players putting/removing their vote cards, but I agree that in a forum setting this might be too much trouble.
Micro wanted to start the game without you. But I said: if you don't wait for my best friend Joe, then I'm not playing.
I said that did i? and you said that? Hmmm.

Well, I wouldn't dream of starting without JoeSapphire. Unless you have another best friend named Joe?

++++++++

I think I shall accept both public and private votes, however one wishes. The "I'm still waiting on a vote from these following people" is nice, i think, to have every so often.
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JoeSapphire: Joe?
JOE!!! Are you playing?
I've sent out a lot of chat messages in the last few days from people who used to play, asking if they were interested in this, and I've only received one response (which was a polite no). The 10th seat is available to whomever sits first!
Post edited January 24, 2022 by Microfish_1
Posted January 24, 2022
And feel free to exchange me with any other player. I might have some issues with "my availability". I will of course stay true to my promise to play the game in case there are no others willing to participate.
Post edited January 24, 2022 by Cadaver747
Posted January 25, 2022
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Cadaver747: And feel free to exchange me with any other player. I might have some issues with "my availability". I will of course stay true to my promise to play the game in case there are no others willing to participate.
Noooo, you can't leave! (Well, IRL comes first!) But seriously, I don't have any subs, nor a 10th player, so I would really rather you not leave if you think you can stay.

+++++++++++

I was musing. If my last name was Watson, and if I ever have male progeny, and he at some point mutters something... I could say...
"WHAT, SON?" really fast and slurred together into one word: "WHATSON"

I expect he'd then groan, but it would be worth it.
Posted January 25, 2022
low rated
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Microfish_1: I was musing. If my last name was Watson, and if I ever have male progeny, and he at some point mutters something... I could say...
"WHAT, SON?" really fast and slurred together into one word: "WHATSON"

I expect he'd then groan, but it would be worth it.
Lol.....made me chuckle a bit :)
Posted January 25, 2022
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Microfish_1: I was musing. If my last name was Watson, and if I ever have male progeny, and he at some point mutters something... I could say...
"WHAT, SON?" really fast and slurred together into one word: "WHATSON"

I expect he'd then groan, but it would be worth it.
At least your last name isn't Dickinson, yeah?
Posted January 25, 2022
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zeogold: If everyone plays nicely, maybe this time I'll tell you what the legend of the cows is.
The ledend of the cows surely has something to do with milk, no?

Why don't you come and play Secret Hitler Zeo? You can tell us when you're Hitler again
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussionGame Signup - Secret Hitler #4 - Herlock Sholmes Edition!(111 posts)(111 posts)
(111 posts)