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Solei: Bad news.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=58789

Despite having promised the Kickstarters and the other backers a DRM free and fully offline capable game, the cat is now out of the bag in their latest newsletter:

Apparently they designed the game for Diablo3 style online-only all the way along, and not kept the promises they made back then.

A big shame, since i backed this at their kickstarter campaign with a considerable amount - and one of the titles i was really looking forward to.

If anyone here supported this game for the promised off-line mode, you really should demand a refund.

Personally I'm royally pissed right now, i didn't believe Frontier would do such a move and betray the trust of their backers like that.
I was planning on buying a whole new gaming system and even OR solely for Elite Dangerous.
There is no way I am going to buy Elite Dangerous now. I might get a pirated version if it ever exists, and I haven't acquired a pirated version of any game for about 21 years.
Well done!!!
Amazing how they kept this secret until a month before launch. Which of course is well after people who donated could initiate charge backs with their credit cards as the time has long since pass, then deny refunds.

I'd hope anyone who gave shit to Blizzard for Diablo 3 and EA for Sim City won't give these jokers a pass. Like both of them, this game has gone into the "no buy" category for me no matter how cheap it gets.
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jamotide: No they have not, as they CHOOSE not to deliver a DRM free edition.
Kickstarter doesn't care about deliver method, that is a case between Frontier and the backers.
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tomimt: Kickstarter doesn't care about deliver method, that is a case between Frontier and the backers.
So? I dont care about the delivery method, I care that they choose to not deliver it.
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tomimt: This has been the thing with KS projects since the beginning, as it is a platform for products that haven't been made yet. When entering in full production things can and will most likely change. It's even happening with traditionally financed games. You can ask that from any big game company and you'd hear a plethora of stories about games that changed form even quite drastically during the production, but in most cases the public doesn't know that, as that is the matter between the financer and the developer.

I know many people still look KS as some sort of pre-order and many devs are to blame from that as well. But in many cases it really isn't pre-order as much of act of good faith. You trust your money to a project and you trust the devs to do their job well. Sometimes they deliver what they promised, sometimes they omit things from the game because of unforseen developement difficulties.

It is unfortunate that such a big feature as offline has been axed. A lot of people pledged because of that. At the same time Frontier did themselves a disservice when they did sell the game later with a promise of offline. What they should have done in KS was to tell that they would look into it, but not promise it. They did mistakes there and they really aren't handeling the situation as well as they should. But at the same time KS backers should really acknowledge, that no matter how much they give, they aren't pre-purchasing a game with set features. They are purchasing something that MIGHT be.
I know and understand this. But it surely depends on the scale. You cannot promise the stars and then only deliver much less. That would be unfair and one-sided. As it is, they deliver less then they initially claimed. You cannot play the game offline and at the same time if it is online it is not DRM free.

One question would be if they could not have seen this right from the beginning. To me this move looks rather unprofessional.

But the more important question is if they really cannot make an offline mode? I guess they probably could, taking something away at another place. They mostly just do not want to do it. And then you naturally arrive at: did they ever honestly want to make an offline part? What about the possibility to deliver an offline part a few weeks after release?

For those who wanted that feature the game is now worth much, much less. By deciding for themselve and not having to ask their backer for permission to do so they basically put all the risk of the product getting worthless on the back of the backers.

That's why I see KS more like a pre-order and less like an investment. If it is an investment I want to either have a share in the decision where the journey goes to or I want my money back if the goals are shifted and I do not like them. The missing participation right of backers on such decisions is a sign that it isn't really an investment. So if it isn't a pre-order it might be something like a donation but not an investment.

With what you say they basically just could stop working on the game and saying: sorry folks, it's too difficult, it cannot be done. There must be a binding force urging the creators to finish the product and to finish it as close to the promised state as possible. Otherwise they will just promise the moon to get the money and then deliver something completely else.

The big problem here is that they do not refund those who wanted to have a DRM free offline game and who will not get such a game. The loss and risk is purely on the side of those backers. This is unfair and should not be tolerated.

So, give backers a say when changing the course of the project or give them a possibility to step away when the project changes substantially (going offline to always online is kind of a substantial change). And backers should think twice before trusting them again.
Post edited November 19, 2014 by Trilarion
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jamotide: So? I dont care about the delivery method, I care that they choose to not deliver it.
So from KS POV Frontier has done all fine and tandy. KS can wash their hands from the whole mess and the aftermath is in the hands of Frontier and the backers. You don't have to like it, but that's how it goes.
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tomimt: So from KS POV Frontier has done all fine and tandy. KS can wash their hands from the whole mess and the aftermath is in the hands of Frontier and the backers. You don't have to like it, but that's how it goes.
No they did not. They are not delivering a DRM free pledge reward. They are refusing to do so, even though it would be possible. The terms state that they can refund the money alternatively, but they refused that as well.
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jamotide: So? I dont care about the delivery method, I care that they choose to not deliver it.
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tomimt: So from KS POV Frontier has done all fine and tandy. KS can wash their hands from the whole mess and the aftermath is in the hands of Frontier and the backers. You don't have to like it, but that's how it goes.
Pretty sure KS can wash their hands off anything. They have no legal obligation to get into disputes between backers and the kickstarters. All they do is 'encourage' certain standards, but the moment the money is sent to the kickstarter their legal obligations end.

In fact, the only thing they added to that recently was making clear that *backers* may sue them if they don't deliver. Which doesn't change anything since backers always had that option, it just wasn't clearly pointed out. It's an empty threat and that's it.
Additionally, the terms now state that creators who are unable to stand by the promises they made in their project may be subject to legal action by backers. (The possibility of legal action has always existed, but that part was not spelled out clearly in the previous terms.
Post edited November 19, 2014 by Pheace
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jamotide: No they did not. They are not delivering a DRM free pledge reward. They are refusing to do so, even though it would be possible. The terms state that they can refund the money alternatively, but they refused that as well.
Ah, but from there we again get into the wonferfull world of defintions. If Frontier can proof that the game can be installend on any machine and played from there with the only need of logging in their server, they can claim that the game doesn't have DRM.

So again, as far KS is concerned, the game is delivered to the backers by some means and those means may or may not be DRM. If KS would really care about the possible delivery methods and DRM, they would give guidelines to the developers on how to pursue that. But they don't. KS has efficiently washed their hands out of the whole matter and it is futile for any backer to expect KS to help them, because KS really prefers to keep their hands out from those disbutes.
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tomimt: Ah, but from there we again get into the wonferfull world of defintions. If Frontier can proof that the game can be installend on any machine and played from there with the only need of logging in their server, they can claim that the game doesn't have DRM.
Um what? That is not DRM free.

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tomimt: So again, as far KS is concerned, the game is delivered to the backers by some means and those means may or may not be DRM. If KS would really care about the possible delivery methods and DRM, they would give guidelines to the developers on how to pursue that. But they don't. KS has efficiently washed their hands out of the whole matter and it is futile for any backer to expect KS to help them, because KS really prefers to keep their hands out from those disbutes.
Yeah, so all the accountability crap is just lies to get our money? Good to know, kickstarter.
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Trilarion: The loss and risk is purely on the side of those backers. This is unfair and should not be tolerated.
And I do agree with out about this. Make no mistake about. The biggest risk in any KS falls to the backer, as it is the backer who pledges the money in good faith. But it doesn't make it pre-order, as in many cases the game is barely in early developement phase.

In the end every backer should evaluate the project well before pledging in. You should always, always try to see through what is marketing speech and what is not. Me personally, I never did pledge on Elite nor did I pledge on Shroud of the Avatar, as neither teams gave a good explanation on how they'd make their seemingly MMO games offline playable.

If there's any question the devs can't answer, that should be a flag to not to pledge, be it the possible game features or platforms the game is going to be playable.
What a low move from FD. They managed to hurt their backers, their reputation and the crowd funding reputation.
I hope people respond to it adequately and boycott them.

I am glad i have been careful and lucky while backing/per-ordering projects.
So far only dead state has shown less promise of what i expected, but that's barely something comparable with this and more my expectations fault.
Meanwhile...the droids in the official forum are still trying to claim that Elites always-on DRM is not DRM.
How the mighty have fallen.
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jamotide: Meanwhile...the droids in the official forum are still trying to claim that Elites always-on DRM is not DRM.
And not that far away, the same happens in the bioware forums regarding denuvo.
I don't get these people, it doesn't matter what you call it, but what it does.