lulz

Did they, though? Somehow, I suspect if I took a poll right now ("You may or may not be voting for him right now, but on a scale of all the people here, would you consider drealmer7 to be on the scummy side of things?"), most would still consider you evil.

It's just the way you are behaving and reacting to people, and have been since the start that has me convinced.

I don't feel like killing drealmer today.

Don't particularly feel like parsing all that either, but still don't feel like killin' him.

I am not utterly outraged by Hijack's death, and I'm not certain I fall under your definition of "proponent of a4plz's lynch" (could you define 'proponent' for me? I'm curious what, specifically, you mean).

Apparently, I'm highly likely to be scum, and I'm really, really curious about the logic required to support this idea.

No, seriously. I want to see the case where I'm scum in any way, shape, or form.

Dang. Another scum point for me.

Dang. Another scum point for me.

I, personally, would have liked to see more involvement after he started picking up votes.

-----
Drealmer, I have another confusion problem on my end. How do you reconcile these statements?
On no evidence, you realized he was the player most likely to have a PR?

@drealmer
Insisting that a4plz must die and that anyone who disagrees with you doesn't understand how the game works is one of the most egotistical posts you've made. Check your ego at the door please. You don't like how a4plz has played then vote them with a coherent reason and leave your ego and I'm better than everyone else attitude out of it.

I had thought you might actually be town after yesterday and then you go off and make a giant post of how we should all see the game only one way and it's your way, I still find you scummy and I expect you'll be voting me shortly after I vote you because anyone who questions you is always scummy.

Vote drealmer

HEY! Get in line, buddy! I want to hear the rationale for me being scum; you've had your turn!

Still a lot to catch up, but since babark's in the mood of clarifying himself:

A "2ds ago" timestamp means it's been over 36hrs since you last posted. You've violated the rule already three times; you just managed to show up before being mod prodded for a third time. So, sorry, but no Ifs.

Elaborate on what the evil benefit of their deviant behaviour is.


[emphasis added]

Pity that the Exorcist picked the unconfirmed over the practically 100% confirmed one?

How does old and new determine the helpfulness of a Spectre? And why and how exactly would keeping HijacK instead of Bookwyrm627 have been helpful?

I'd like you to elaborate on the arguments you're making here.


Innocently phrased fishing?.


I'd like you to elaborate on what you said in your post #706 - what is the evil benefit of his and trentonlf's deviant behaviour?



Is that "I don't feel like killing drealmer today" because you don't find him scummy, or because you find others scummier than him?

Both.

I feel like ap's near-panicked fence-sitting is far more of a scum tell than "BLUUUUUUAAAAAAAAAARRGHHHHHHH!!!!!"

But like I said... the "no flip" mechanic is... depressing.

I explained a bit in the last post, but I'll reiterate. I really didn't want HijacK killed. I had him as #1 most likely to have a PR (I believe Evil did too, from early in the game, which is why trent was "either HijacK or drealmer" 4 days into the start of the game, with no room for budging, "well maybe JMich, but no, JMich is an impossible lynch at this point, drealmer or HijacK!"), and believe he was the herbalist as stated. Yes, I could be wrong, but being wrong doesn't make me Evil defending Evil, it makes me wrong (but I don't think I am.)

This: "by the end, if everyone is only voting for who they most think is scum, or even think is 2nd most scum - no one will ever be day lynched." is not true. We have to get to the point where 1 or 2 people are the most viable lynches, discuss the most viable lynches, and decide as a majority to go ahead with the lynch. This is how it SHOULD/would unfold if town is in charge of the proceedings and not strong-armed/manipulated by scum. As long as there is discussion happening and active players around at deadline, it will work itself out. What happened yesterday does not allow anything to happen except scum get a huge advantage.

Yes, I'm that upset with a4plz (if they're town.) As I already explained, it shows a complete lack of understanding or care for how the game works, which is completely disrespectful to the mod (who put a lot of time into setting up a good game) and the players (who are aware of and are following the rules, trying to have fun.) To me, it's like playing a game of soccer, the rules have it balanced evenly for 2 teams (the mod is the ref, hoping to have created a balanced game, though in this game he is aware that the balance isn't great, that's fine, we're aware and playing onward, the analogy still holds), but 1 of the teams has a player just sitting in the middle of the field. Everyone is playing around her, while she sits and plays with the grass, stares at the clouds, on ocassion looks around at the fellows playing. Once in a while a fellow player would go up to her and say "hey, you should be playing! get in the game! do you know the rules? *points to rules*" to which she said "I am playing! I know the rules!" (meanwhile neither are true) - then (and I love how agent's flavor got at this angle too), at a crucial point in the game, she jumps up, steals the ball, and kicks it into her own team's net and then says "SEE! I'm playing!!! I know how to play!!! See, I kicked the ball and I scored! That's a contribution!"

That is not a contribution, that is a destruction. So, yes, can and do fault her for not contributing in a pro-town manner. Time zone means nothing, we all have the same amount of time in the day, if she doesn't have the time to play the game, she shouldn't play the game. Simple as that. And, ya know, deadline was still 20+ hours away. If she'd have read the rules she'd have known how it was going to go. I fault her for not having read or understanding the rules and hurting the game because of it.

Just because you vote and lynch someone doesn't mean you're doing more than someone who hasn't voted to lynch someone. Not even close. Which should be evidenced by what happened (at least if HijacK is actually a PR.)

We don't know how many Evil there are.

That's exactly what adalia wants you to be doing (believing him over a dead person.) but actually that is absolutely what a PR HijacK would have done. We were all dumb enough to lynch him having a power role, then we get what we deserve and it is no sweat off of his back, it's all on us. Oh I see, wyrm has said this already!

3 on HijacK were on me - trent, cristi, adalia (dess)
4 on HijacK weren't on me - CSPVG, bookwyrm627. locw, and a4plz

2 of 3 I have has very-likekly scum - trent and adalia

beware adalia trying to make you his buddy by saying you are leaning town for him - it's very likely scum tactics!

@#750 I see trent is trying to hold HijacK responsible for HijacK's lynch too. It's HijacK's fault for getting lynched! SCUM SCUMM SCUMMY SCUM tells, imo. Trent, if you're town, did it never occur to you that he got a PR and decided to try and play it quiet and safe because of the mechanics of this game? That's what it struck me as, HARD, and then he dropped his PR hint, and, reading and re-reading it, I get ZERO scum vibes from it and all "lurking PR holder."

@adalia - same thing for you: did it not occur to you he could have a PR and was behaving this way because of that? You got what you were looking for in HijacK revealing himself as Evil? SERIOUSLY?! HijacK is not that bad of a player. Not even close. Again, locw, don't be manipulated (I'm not trying to manipulate you, I'm trying to get you to see objectively.)

trent and adalia both are painting it as if they were able to gleen some powerful observations based on a few days play of me and HijacK (where Hijack even barely played, trying to lay low with his PR, is how I read it, over and over.) UTTER NONSENSE. Of course I can't actually speak for HijacK, but the fact that they are lumping me in there with him and their AMAZING scum-hunting tactics when I know I'm Good, is a huge scum-tell to me.

here's (what I see to be) some overconfident scum LAMIST directly from adalia: "I've had a few days to think about things (and unlike some of you I didn't have anyone to talk to ;P)" which screams Evil to me too. Most of the time LAMIST doesn't strike me as scummy, it often strikes me as town, here, it strikes me as unquestionably scummy. I do recognize that town-adalia (or even observer adalia, as I've observered) is consistently overconfident with reads that are WAYY off, but the confidence is coming off even stronger than normal here, completely like scum being over-confident trying to push/bully their way to victory.

babark, for the record, I never read you as scum-lurker, but as anti-town lurker, I probably shouldn't have voted you for that, but I saw a town PR getting lynched otherwise and thought you'd be a more pro-town death than HijacK. It'd be helpful for us as town for you to post more, thanks!

to quote one of trent's favorite things to say:

"you're wrong"

more to come, apparently (FFS, people, seriously? next game I'm going to just flower you all with praise and love and never find anything wrong with anyone says - WATCH IT GET ME LYNCHED!) ---- In case you don't know, I'M SCUM-HUNTING. It'd be great if the rest of you helped in your own way instead of get at me for my ways.

I think you misread what I said. I said that "deviant behaviour that doesn't provide any (non-evil) benefit" would be considered suspect by my. I didn't say that their deviant behaviour had any evil benefit (that I had sussed out, at least), just that it was deviant behaviour, and it didn't have any non-evil benefit. It might have some evil benefit, probably does, but that wasn't my point.

Picked someone who may have provided some new information about a new situation rather than someone who probably said everything new they were going to say. But I realise that since spectres still have a vote, I guess in that regard the choice was right.

You make it sound so insidious. Cristi is a spectre now- cannot be lynched, cannot be night-killed, cannot be harmed in any way, and can only be removed by the exorcist's choice. So if there was any new information that could be provided, what is so insidious about seeking it out?

Love the typo. Really do :)

Wouldn't scum be the ones that know you are town, regardless of whether they present you as town or scum?

Claim at L-2. Not L-1. So even if there is a quick vote on you, you get taken to L-1, not lynched. Haven't we said this before, that the claim should be at L-2, because a claim at L-1 may come too late? I wonder who was saying that claims at L-2 should not be happening, but only at L-1...

Why aren't you? It's very possible a PR was unecessarily killed due to another playing not having read/understood the rules? Why does that not outrage you? Are you really scum?

I've done this twice already. I suppose you could have missed it if you're scum-skimming my posts. Maybe give me a re-read.

I would have liked that too. Buuut, are you saying that because he didn't do this, he must be scum? How does that make sense? Practically half of the players are lurking, and HijacK gets singled out for it, that doesn't lend itself towards a scum-agenda to you? He can't be faulted for everyone voting to lynch him when he was doing what else 50%+ of the rest of the players were doing.
Just for the record, you are pinging scum to me too, over and over. YES, YOU ARE PINGING SCUM TO ME. Does this mean you're scum? I don't know, you ping scum often enough to me when you're town too.

Again, such a huge scum-ping here. You KNOW there is no evidence of him being a PR, and you know I never said there was evidence. You've played the game enough to know that, and again, you've still not answered the question (and instead are deflecting/trying to turn it around on me): WHAT ABOUT HIJACK HAD YOU CONVINCED ENOUGH THAT HE WAS SCUM THAT YOU WERE WILLING TO VOTE FOR HIM? (that's the 3rd time I've asked it, for the record.)

I've said multiple times now, to me, there were hints and vibes of him having a PR.

I was only addressing my fellow Goods, Evil can fuck off and die, I am not trying to talk sense to them, that'd be silly.

I will forever and always be a proponent of claiming at L-1 ONLY. Anything else allows for too much scum-manipulation. This is why it is required to lynch the hammerer, imo, in order to ensure pro-town play from townies without it being muddled by scum.

That's the main one. I tried finding "flub's ranch game" because I thought that could be a hint (or a hint involved, if one of the 2 people he calls out here were some sort of doctor/resurrector type), but wasn't sure which it was, can anyone tell me?

Then there's this post, in which with a continuing conversation with HSL about the PRs he says "one...one", and it came off as him subtely distancing himself from the PR thoughts. I got PR vibes from him here.

There's strong vibes like this and
this, in which I see that HijacK is reading trent abd HSL pretty much exactly the same as I am. I know I'm Good, so that gives HijacK town points and reaffirms me read of trent + HSL. I do know that I could be wrong, but this is the "tone-read" I get here that makes me think he's likely town.

this post caught my attention and I agree, adalia is simply fabricating shit to try and convince others he's a a good lynch. I take "You can try but you will fail" to mean "I'm going to claim a PR and my lynch will fail." To me it feels/reads genuine, and not like a scum-bluff. Tone-read, and all that.

You all saw this post, right? Note adalia's quoted post too (all of it, not just the quoted part.) Does no one else find this significant?!

This almost reads to me as "I'm special too!" Which is barely nothing and even if he is a PR he could have not intended this to be a slight affirmation of him having a PR as I took it to POSSIBLY be.

Anyway, top scum suspicion list, if anyone cares:

adalia
HSL
trent

I am comfortable voting any of them today

I'd also be comfortable also voting/lynching a4plz today - out of security and necessity to the integrity of the game as I see it, but I'm not looking to have a huge argument about it all or push it any more than that.

If Hijack was a PR, then he needed to get off his butt and help during the Day so he didn't get lurker lynched. I picked him over some of the other lurkers because he was doing less (compare to JMich), and he definitely knows how to be more contributory (compare to a4plz and babark). I even left warnings about my inclination to vote for him before the vote came. I've seen Hijack as both town and scum; I've even been on his team as both town and scum, which is something I'm not sure every repeat player here can claim.

A4plz isn't getting a pass from me, so don't fear on that account.

The problem is there is a giant, glaring hole in the logic train that gets one to the conclusion that I'm scum. A question in massive, flashing neon colors that would put the Vegas Strip to shame. An issue that I just haven't seen addressed, or even noticed.

I'm saying it is quite possible he is scum. Nothing he did was persuasive enough to warrant saving his life. Any scum is likely to claim a PR when close to lynch, specifically so town will leave that potential PR alive for another Day or two. Therefore, his PR claim is worthless when placed alongside his apparent lack of realization that he wouldn't be protecting himself that night.

And just because 50% of the players are lurking doesn't mean any given one of them can't be called out for it.

He was lurking. I have no qualms about killing lurkers who should know better, especially ones that have been warned they are at risk of being voted/lynched and yet continue to lurk. Adalia made a good point about scum Hijack sitting back, as well. Reminded me of a certain Bulletproof Berserker.

That would be the Tres Leches game.

...I'm gonna tell him.

Words are cheap. Vote.

Hmmmm, that is the first game I looked at, and thought it had a different moderator, so closed it. Thanks, I'ma go check that game and see if there were any roles that HijacK could have been referencing.

As far as the glaring holes in the possibility that you're scum that haven't been addressed anywhere. What would that be? I already said it is possible that in order to have some balance that Evil was made aware of the spectre mechanic before Good. It's not like I think you are scum, I just think it is possible, even if slightly.