Again you have it all wrong, but that is not surprising. You seem to think yesterday was all about you and your wagon, no other possibilities cross your mind because "obviously" you are town and whoever questions you or accuses you is scum.

You are also trying to build cases against players based on something I said to them or about them, all I can do is laugh at how lame that is and how wrong you are.

I don't think HSL or flub is scum, not sure about a4plz. What I do think is you are scum trying your best to get me lynched and building cases against other players based on nothing but the fact that I said something to them or about them at some point.



On another note:
I also think we either need to lynch babark or replace him, he is not invested in the game and his disappearing acts are not helpful at all.

Sorry missed that. I honestly don't remember how the flips were in the werewolf game. The only thing that sticks out about that game is we did not know it when we lost our power role for town.

Oh, and here's the "look at me I'm so town post" I was waiting for. Quite uncommon of town HSL. Of course, I don't quite believe you're town.

*giggle* (see, I can laugh at you just as well as you can at me!)

me: NO YOU'RE SCUM!

him: NO YOU'RE SCUM!

me: NO YOU'RE SCUM!

look, what if neither of us are scum (you hit my scum-dar soooo frikken hard, so I don't really think this is true, but then, you are frequently pinging scummy to me when you're town, sooo, I can't discount that I'm wrong about you - there, have a mouthful of WIFOM) ?

again, AGAIN, again, can you please lay down and articulate your actual argument as to why you are so convinced I am Evil? all you can do is laugh? how about make a counter-argument? tell me why I'm wrong instead of just saying "you're wrong" - maybe try and do something towny to convince me (and others) otherwise?

I don't think yesterday was "all about my wagon", as I said previously: I just think that is what makes the most sense to focus on. If you have other ideas, I'd love to hear them.

Does anyone else seem scummy to you aside from me?

what do you make the trent + me contention situation?

Of course.

The best idea I have is to lynch you and move on.

I don’t think scum was all that responsible for the mis-lynch. Nor do I think they were pushing all that hard for the lynch on drealmer either. I believe town had more to do with D1’s results than anything else. We didn’t have much traction (in terms of agreeing on a lynch candidate) heading into the last 24 hours of D1. If my count is correct, only 7 of 13 players were active the final 24 hours. That doesn’t bode well for reaching a consensus. I was part of that problem, I was unable to participate until barely one hour remained. From my experience, scum rarely need to push hard the first day or two.

If you are town, I'd lean toward 1 scum being on your wagon. 0 is probably too low. With 5 of 13 players, odds are that one is scum. Two is possible, but I find it less likely. You went to L-2 with less than an hour remaining. The people active around that time were: you, Dessimu, Hyper, Bookwyrm, flub, trent, and myself. (I did not notice if others may have been lurking and not posting). 4 of those were already on the wagon and I don’t expect you to vote for yourself. Both Hyper and Bookwyrm would have needed to vote to lynch you. We now know that Bookwyrm is town. So unless scum was lurking but not participating, the “why wouldn’t the last two scum hop on my wagon”, does not make sense in the context of D1’s end.

I see three players who voted for you because they argued you were scum (the first three) and two players who voted you to avoid no-lynch (Dessimu and I). That doesn’t speak to anyone’s alignment, just the stated motivation. Dessimu seems fairly town to me and I know my alignment. If 2 scum are on the wagon, that narrows it to babark, flubb, and trent. Trent’s has pinged my scumdar a couple of times, the other two have not. I think one scum on your wagon is more likely.

If you are scum, I’d assume 0-1 scum was on your wagon. Probably zero, but a scum may have been on there to gain town cred. If this is the case, I doubt it's trent. I don't see you and trent being scum-buddies.

@hyper
Do you still believe this? Who do think was/were the scum on drealmer’s wagon? Did the “orchestration” involve anyone not on the wagon?

Are you OK? I agree with the term that CSPVG used, you seem "antagonistic" this game. Being scum might explain part of it, but it seems unusual even for scum-trent. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

-I had a list of people, in a rough order. I've noticed some interesting things since then.
-Assuming he's town, then Mafia that weren't on his wagon might not have been present at the deadline to finish him. Or the mafia present at the deadline didn't want to finish him, regardless of his alignment.
-I have no idea what those two numbers are supposed to mean.

Scum JMich wouldn't kill me just for spite, not this early (not that I think I did anything to incur his spite). He'd totally kill me if he thought I was a threat or he thought I was a power role.

I can't speak to a4plz acting out of fear or spite, this being my first game with him.

I considered it. I strongly considered it, but I ultimately decided to go with my earlier plan not to push him Day 1. If HSL had pushed him to L-1, chances are good I'd have hammered that close to deadline, but I decided I wasn't going to L-1 him. There are more than enough players alive to have killed him before the deadline if the group was so inclined, so I don't feel guilty for this decision.

Maybe not 100% safe to assume, but I'd happily accept every single NK as confirmed town.

Odd. People seem to alternatively refer to me as if I'm already in the dead thread, then switch to asking me questions directly. I've also had the thought that Krypsyn has been in this sort of position twice already.

While you can't know it yet, this is not entirely accurate. Remind me to come back to this closer to the deadline.

Now to read Drealmer's conspiracy theory, then pull together some other observations.

Your analysis here effectively starts with a disclaimer saying that the entire thing is going to be biased and possibly empty. Not a good start, and definitely not a good way to run analysis as Town. If you start off by assuming the player in question is scum, and interpret everything in that light, then you're going to look (and act!) like a Paranoid Cop. Nobody trusts the reads of a Paranoid Cop, and for good reason.

-No role talk is a standard D1 line with Trent. He even gets flak for it in multiple games.
-Trent may have happened to be the first to respond to a4plz's role suggestion, but he was hardly the only one, and he was completely right in his response.
-Trent indicated that his thoughts on No Lynch can be affected by the amount of flip info available. He didn't say he was more in favor of it D1, and I didn't see any back pedaling from him about No Lynch. If Trent suddenly whips out "Lets No Lynch instead of finishing off that player", he's going to get looks. Lots and lots of looks. Probably not friendly looks, either.
-Town needs to know what flips are going to look like early, when the potential damage of a mislynch is both significantly less and more easily recovered from, than late, when a mislynch (or a lynch that turns out to yield no data) could create a Scum Win. If anyone that believes Town should confirm flip information early rather than later is Evil, then you need to advocate for eliminating me as Evil. You have no idea how close you came to being the first spectre, assuming HSL would have followed my lead.
-If you swing 10 times, and only get a hit once, the 9 misses create plenty of basis for saying you're often wrong. The shotgun approach lends itself to hitting a target, not to high accuracy.
-Requesting that someone refrain from posting a vote count format that the requester finds hard to read is not a scum tell (town or scum might do it). The different between your vote counts and most other's, is that most players giving an unofficial vote count tend to use a very basic format (and/or the mod's format) instead of trying to track all votes for the Day.
-Trent already stated his reason for finding you scummy: He considered continuous pushing/advocating for No Lynch on this game's Day 1 to be scummy. Post 417 (which you linked) outlines the results Trent expects to get from No Lynch.

You assumed Trent was scum, analyzed his posts in that light, and then voted him because he looks scummy. This isn't a good method to hunt scum, Drealmer; it runs straight into confirmation bias.

Yes and no. A wagon can still be analyzed, but it is much weaker, in part because you don't know whether people hopping on/off might be scum trying to save a buddy.

If I were to assign an emotion to Flub's posting, "apathy" feels so much closer to the mark than "fear". "Unconcerned" is probably much more accurate, though. Flub keeps his eye on the prize, but he's not overly concerned about being wrong. I refer you to his absolute "Unzip Fly, Unpack Fly" Town Arsonist play.

All right I'm done with my little experiment. I decided half way through Day 1 to change my meta up and get overly aggressive with someone, and man drealmer do you make it easy, to see what responses I could elicit from other players.

1. You do have it wrong about me drealmer and it's clouded your thoughts, you need to reassess the situation. I did mean what I said Day 1, if there is no info given on flips it can make a no lynch more viable later on. I never said I was for no lynch on Day 1, and I never will be as it's a bad play for town. Pushing for a no lynch on Day 1 will get a vote from me just the same as someone trying to talk about personal role info will, it's a bad play and scummy. I'm still not sure if you are scum or not, but you are not my top suspect.

2. I am surprised at how little to no response I got from several players, I was being overly aggressive and so narrow visioned that I should have been called out by someone other than drealmer. The one person I found most interesting to have said nothing is Hijack. I think Hijack is scum. He has been deflecting when someone has suggested he is acting scummy instead of defending himself. His involvement in the game is just enough to make is to he is seen but not really doing anything. My guess is he did not want to say anything about my behavior as it kept attention off of him. He is my top suspect for scum.

3. I still think we either need to lynch babark or have him replaced, his continued absence from the game is a detriment.

Unvote drealmer
Vote Hijack

What say you Hijack, how am I wrong on this one?

Probably no surprise, but I don't buy it. If you are town you've sewn contention between yourself and another townie and caused a bunch of hub-bub and distraction from the scum-hunt, and that is quite scummy. I think you've finally realized that you aren't getting anywhere with your focus on me and feel "caught" (as now, others are more suspicious of you than of me) and now this is just a ploy to try and exonerate yourself. You can't be trusted at all now with anything you say in this game. Too little too late, as they say, imo.

I could go on (you know I could!), but you've wasted enough of this Good's time - off with yer head, I say!

It's just dumb. Not even worth a serious response. The whole "My guess is he did not want to say anything about my behavior as it kept attention off of him." argument could be said about anybody at all times. But why should I care you were aggressive? You were aggressive in the past as well, and my assignments weren't worth failing to argue with you about random shit.

Like, I'm not gonna even bother talking to you. You're obviously just taking random blows in the dark hoping to hit something. Anything.

Also, you know where I've seen a move like that before? Yogsloth in #31, when he suddenly announced why his attitude changed (he was lying scum.)

are you the mod? no. so let the mod handle it! he did post 9 hours ago, not a great contributory post, but actually more so than anything a4plz has given at this point. I don't understand why you're more offended by babark's participation than a4plz's. can you explain? is she your scum-buddy?

*quite irked that if trent is actually Good that I spent all of that time and energy on him because he was "just kidding" essentially* (he's gotta be Evil, right? that's just so scummy)

GAH, anyway, yes, quite enough energy spent on you for now

please, someone else do something