my 507 read...
"Trentwolf and Trentwolf vote for Dreamler7 while HSL lies low not voting, so he isn't accused of lynch rushing. that - and it doesn't hurt for them to make it to night with a free pass. "

should have been Trentwolf and Baback vote for...

cristigale - 444 have you changed your mind yet? i'm assuming you still don't want a no lynch...


cristigale - 474 makes a lot of sense.
@a4plz - do you agree or disagree? Do we need to lynch someone today so that bookworym's spectre lives at least another day? what is your status on a no lynch for today?

Official Prod

babark, please return to the game. Your last post reads 2 days ago.

The three good roles? As opposite to the three bad roles, I assume.

Remind me again how we'd know who they are.

Remind me again how you'd tell the difference between a Town-Spectre and a Mafia-Spectre, if the Coroner doesn't speak up or is dead.

Also, amazing scum-hunting.



How would we know who the Exorcist is?



I'll wait with much anticipation.



Not taking a forum game too seriously and doing diddly squat when partaking in it are not synonymous.



Day-vig them with multiple projectile ammunition.

If after discussing the plan, the majority thought of it as the proper course of action, I would have expected the exorcist to step forward. I no longer think the musing of a plan I had as a viable one, thus I never proposed we discuss it. I did though present my thought, in case someone else thinks it's worth discussing.

I don't use multi-quoting because I don't like the way it makes my posts look cluttered (to me), and much prefer to do it my way, but since you do seem rather irked by it, I'll attempt ti multi-quote.

At the very least, you can all point and laugh at me if this fails horribly.

---

Here goes nothing then.

1. I felt it was a fair enough representation of what he said, actually.

2. It was really an idiotic thing of me to say.

3. No, there isn't any particular order to that list.

Again, it's much better that you read through the actual post and now have grounds to actually refute anything you may have found scummy about it.

I don't really read as much into that quote as you do. He's basically saying that, were it not for the fact that you posted more than other players, you wouldn't have a 'pass'. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement.

Challenging HSL is fine, but I don't really see too much in the whole 'chanting' thing, as HSL did that for a couple of posts day one and then stopped (which, I concede, could be seen as worrying in its own way) and as for the no voting, that's sort of what HSL is known for (so it's not an excuse, but it is consistent with HSL's general play). What are a few of the things that you've noted as scummy but maybe too WIFOM about HSL?

This also raises an interesting question: HSL, if you'd care to share it with us, what was the chanting about on D1?

I find this to be quite improbable.

---

I hope I haven't fudged the quotes too badly.

Also, I'll keep on reading and be back with more notes (hopefully) later.

Also also, I'm very close to voting either HijacK or trentonlf.

Welcome to mulit-quoting. :) It makes reading your thoughts within context easier.

<chuckle>

I'm going back to the beginning of the Day and work forward.
At the end of D1, I ran out of time. @hyper or anyone else - are there questions back on D1 that you still want an answer?

This also raises an interesting question: HSL, if you'd care to share it with us, what was the chanting about on D1?

Trying quite again. -- I don't disagree with you. Would love to hear more about why Hijack or trentwolf ?

You're right, that was hard to follow.

I don't think Bookwyrm is 100% confirmed because scum could have killed their own last night. I find that HIGHLY unlikely, but without moderator confirmation, I am unwilling to say it is 100% certain. For practical purposes, I believe Bookwyrm is confirmed town.

If we no-lynch today, Bookwyrm will only survive if he was the Exorcist. We need to keep him in the game. From here on out, other NK's are likely town but not as certain as Bookwyrm. With the mechanics in play, scum could make a bold move and NK one of their own. Apart from the Coroner's results (who may or may not claim), Bookwyrm is the only one that we can be certain is town. If Bookwyrm was the Coroner, we will get no more confirmed information this game.

One comment, which I should have made separately, was just an observation on the Exorcist role - we will know if the Exorcist has been killed. If a specter is removed from the game on a given night, the Exorcist was alive (at least at the start of the night.) If a specter is not removed from the game then the Exorcist has to be either:
1. the lynch from the previous day
2. the NK from that night or the night before (depending on the whether or not the mafia NK trumps the Exorcist)
There is no rush, we'll know it when/if it happens.

We cannot eliminate scum if we do not lynch. If we can keep confirmed town in the game in the process, we should make every effort to do so. Right now, I can see no convincing reason why we should not lynch someone today.

What are your thoughts on lynch vs. no-lynch today?

Damn, HSL. You slayin' with that.

They can easily confess. Like duh? You in a ditch, mate? It seems you're playing the age old question game, but not really making any critical thinking.

I wasn't aware we required any other input besides Coroner's. And whether one speaks up or not is up to that one.

I know, thank you.

Vote HSL

this process will nitpick and comment on almost every single post by persons on my wagon that I see that I think COULD be relevant to rooting out Evil, some of it is baseless, some of it is founded, all of it is assuming the player to be Evil (and so will seem very conspiracy theorist, which is the point, to find out if I+the rest of you think the conspiracy theory has merit or is too far-fetched or unlikely), for the purpose of following the logic of IF they are Evil...(1 player at a time per post in order to keep things organized) - 1st :

trentonlf -

This could be 1 Evil telling another Evil this is not the route to go as it draws suspicion and to get off such a line of pursuit, it could also be 1 Evil telling 1 Good the standard position, trying to look like they are Good.

trent shocks the world with an admission that no-lynch could be a viable option. I run things through my head and agree and then he either backpedals a little or hadn't fully articulated himself in the previous post. My thought is that he ran it back through his head and realized how much it could hinder Evil's advantage if there was a no-lynch, and wishes he had never said anything about it. This could also very likely be that he's reserving the option to endorse no-lynch if his Evil-self or an Evil-buddy face lynch. One of his scum-buddies wagons gets going and suddenly he whips out "actually today might be a good day to no-lynch!" No evidence for this, of course, but still quite possible.

if Evil this is a safe opportunity for him to appear towny without actually helping town (and if a4plz is his Evil-buddy it gives basis for busing later.)

he then votes me for...I'm not sure why, maybe he is frustrated Evil because at almost 300 posts no one has really provided themselves as a good "target" for him and his fellow Evil-doers, and so tries to get me going.

then there's this

here he appears to elaborate a little more (oh, now it's maybe 'viable later in the game' ["when one of my Evil-buddies has a wagon on them], but doesn't really tell us WHY he thinks it is a bad idea, just that it is because we need to know what flips are going to be like first? I don't follow that logic at all and would like to understand why town needs to know what flips are going to be like RIGHT AWAY. I think it much more benefits Evil to have that knowledge and I think it's possible he does too and desperately wants it.

here he completely misrepresents me saying that I said not agreeing with me is anti-town, when what I said is clearly "refusing to even consider what I say is anti-town." and then he tries to paint me as "the man who usually gets it wrong." Ummm, I'm often right, actually, and if I pose 10 alternate theories at once, even if 1 of them is right, 9 are wrong, and that isn't a basis for saying "I usually get it wrong", because I'm not strictly saying "THIS IS RIGHT", all I ever mean to say is "this is POSSIBLE" - if I think something is absolutely right, I say it explicitly, which I've also done a few times (most memorable 2 is that JMich was town in Vitek's game and that bler was scum in flub's game.)

and [url=https://www.gog.com/forum/general/forum_mafia_game_40_wilderberry_hollow/post392]here he gets rather hostile at me for sharing my vote counts and not being the moderator. Plenty of games plenty of players share a vote count when the mod hasn't in a bit and I've never seen anyone say anything about it, I think he's just searching for reasons to paint me in a bad light and trying to get me to actually be a distraction (he simply could not look at those posts, as can anyone who didn't like them, I have no idea how they are unhelpful or a distraction, but arguing about whether they are helpful or a distraction would have been more distracting than they were by themselves, which I think is what trent was going for, trying to make it seem like I was the one causing distraction, when the distraction really would have been his continuous taking issue with it.)

here he claims flubbucket is being helpful and more involved...You mean because he agreed with you about me once and poked at me once or twice? I obviously haven't done this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ with flubb yet, but I look forward to going back and seeing what helpful involvement he has contributed, because I don't recall any. Evil-buddies, perhaps.

[url=https://www.gog.com/forum/general/forum_mafia_game_40_wilderberry_hollow/post417]claimsof me being anti-town, but not actually saying HOW (which I've called for him to elaborate on a few times since, and he has not.) For the record, I've been scum all of 2 times, and I didn't find it hard to appear town at all (oh no, lynch me out of fear of my mad skillz! *sarcasm*) 1st in the all-mafia game (where I stayed alive all the way until the end where I gaffed on the lynch of bler) and 2nd in the lovers game, which I won. You're simply making false statements. *ping*

seemingly trying to provoke a negative reaction from me

---- end of D1 trent on my wagon analysis ----

I haven't done my other 4 analyses, but I don't think any of them are going to present a better case for "who on my wagon was most likely scum", so this is so strong that I'm going to go ahead and

vote trentonlf

I'm not sure when I'll get to the rest, I am going to do dessimu last because of potential replacement and because he has by far the most posts to go over. flub and babark should go relatively fast but I don't think I'll have time to complete either of them atm/for some more hours.

We know that we don't know all of the mechanics. There could very well be a mechanic in place that if the Exorcist dies then a random spectre is killed each night.

I know you weren't addressing me, but here's how no-lynch works for me and why:

My first game had a D1 of 2+ weeks, during that time there were varying wagons with varying strengths but none seemed to want to roll to lynch, the strongest of which was at one point Ixamyakxim. I was a proponent of no-lynch for a while this day because it seemed we had nothing really damning of anyone at least of a majority agreeance and I was pretty damn sure Ix was town. The feeling was SO STRONG that I really really didn't want to lynch him, and I kept my vote off of him. His wagon stalled, others formed, but not as strong, and then his wagon started to roll again and we were pretty much at a standstill on what to do. I was then convinced by others that no-lynch was BAD for town (even though only 8 out of 15 of the other players were on Ix and seemingly comfortable not lynching him just to get a lynch) and went ahead and hammered Ix. He flipped town. I *KNEW* he was going to flip town, and felt really really awful for having just killed him to kill someone. I told myself that from then on that I was never going to just vote someone to secure a lynch IF I felt strongly that they were likely town. To me, it is obviously better to no-lynch than to lynch a townie. Lynching townies just does scum's job for them. Wagons can still be read if no-lynch is achieved.

Now, it does no good to play in fear. Odds are we (as players playing the game) are going to mistakenly lynch townies, it's just how the game goes, and we need to take shots to have a chance of killing scum, of course, and I'm all for that (I tried taking a shot at finding scum yesterday, my vote was on trent.) That's why often a vanilla is told "their only power is to die for their team." But I personally am only willing to take shots at players that I'm comfortable with lynching (for all sorts of varying reasons depending on the circumstance), if I'm not comfortable enough to think they're possibly scum, I'm not just going to vote them to get a kill, that is reckless town play, imo.

So it's simple: I'm comfortable with no-lynch in a situation where the only other option is lynching someone I view as likely town (or if I have some sort of confirmation via a role or other mechanic and am actually certain. Of course, one is always certain of the self too.)

There are 5 people I'm comfortable voting at this point, no lynch is far from my mind for D2.

trentonlf (my "most likely" suspect)
HSL (just a "possibly to the point of being comfortable voting if it came down to it")
flubbucket (same as HSL)
a4plz (for non-contributory lurking purposes, if it came down to it.)
babark (same as a4plz)
cristi is right on the cusp (not currently comfortable voting her, however, but I haven't done a re-read yet either)

I just did a re-read of flub and babark -

nothing damning or exonerating either way. A little ping this way, a little ping that, nothing really noteworthy or anything to build conspiracy on EXCEPT the fact that trent said flub was being more helpful and contributory than normal this game. I just don't see it, it seems rather standard play from him, to me, and it is possible trent was just trying to get on flub's good side because they were both going after me. Still potential that they're Evil-doers together, of course. I do wish flub would play more! All of these games he's been in, I get more and more the feeling that he's simply scared to put himself out there much and lurks in fear, whether town or mafia, and that isn't very team-mate like. STU! (slaughter the useless, for the newcomers)

Sorry for the delay. I didn't realise we were back on, and it seems forum replies no longer show up the little red number for me. Then I was taking time to catch up on all the discussion so far.

No idea what the significance of the spectre will be, I guess bookwyrm will probably definitively vote near the end of the time.

Anyhow, drealmer7's response kinda still makes me suspect him, as others pointed out, his listing of different possible scenarios didn't include evil not voting for him because he was one of them (hence the lack of a lynch).

Then again, it amazes me that someone who is evil would write sooo much and in such detail about why they are not evil. So who knows :D.

No vote yet, but to be honest, I'm still leaning towards drealmer7.

Also, @lotsofchickenwings

No chanting, it was just how I chose to reply to drealmer7's question if I were Scum. It's inspired by , but since none of you made the connection, I can only assume that no-one has read [url=https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4667024-the-help]the book or watched the film.



Yes, provided it's not the Hot Fuzz kind of greater good.

And yes, something like that, but cleaner and faster. ;-)


I asked you a question here. Are you going to answer?



What would be the motive for Scum to kill their own on N1, assuming they did not know about the Spectres mechanic? Are you saying that they may have known about it from the get go?

Putting this aside for a moment, I'd like to clarify one thing.

In your post #444 you said [emphasis added]: I initially read that as your vote being in favour of No-Lynch, hence my question to you (post #468), but after reading your recent post, I wonder if you meant that you'd vote whoever suggested No-Lynch.

As for my thoughts on the matter - No-Lynch is absolutely out of the question, think the questions I asked and the points I made in my post #476 made that clear.



Putting aside for a moment that you just demonstrated why people don't follow your lead (cases you're Scum and have planned things beforehand with your scum-buddies excluded,, if even that), I wonder if you made any effort to read the OP and the D2 opening post, if you read them to the point you actually comprehended what is stated in them and what's in stake for Town (that's assuming you did read them), or if you need to add some points to reading and comprehension skills.
This is all assuming you're Town.
If you're Scum, you're just trying, with no success I'm afraid, to get a rise out of me, in an attempt to get a Townie lynched.

If the latter, well, you do what you can, I suppose.
If the former, what do we need Scum for when we have townies like you...