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General discussionForum Mafia Game #40 - Wilderberry Hollow(1653 posts)(1653 posts)
(1653 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 06, 2016
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lotsofchickenwings: Anyone else on a Mac? Having serious issues posting. This coming from my phone.
I could fire up one to check, but I doubt that's the problem.
Possible reasons for a post not going through are links with low rep (you are almost at the threshold for links posting), badly formatted tags (usually a quote one is the culprit, and they should be lowercase), possibly post length (but seriously, this is not a novel writing competition) and lately it seems profanity may also trigger the filters.

Go through your post, and see if it fits any of the possible issues given above.
Posted May 06, 2016
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Dessimu: Got it. But what do you think of recent events? Who do you find scummy?
Nobody in particular, honestly. I'll probably vote with the majority if a wagon forms later today. There's still a bazillion different suspects and I'm always half-distracted whenever I read these forums.
Posted May 06, 2016
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a4plz: Are you having a laugh? I only just woke up! It's 10am over here, I'm not an eternally conscious vampire.

Brb, gotta catch up on the last 3 pages full of quality posts like this.
Key of my comment being [emphasis added]
[...] she's gone into hibernation after people pointed out how scummy she appears.
No-one cares about your sleeping cycle/patterns in the physical world, and my comment was not about that; it was on your play and the abundance of engagement and quality posts you made after people pointed out the scumminess of your early posts.
Like and [url=https://www.gog.com/forum/general/forum_mafia_game_40_wilderberry_hollow/post467]this one. Though the latter could be read either way, depending on your alignment.



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JMich: [...]

Nice word twisting there. Let's see the timeline of my posts again, shall we?
Wyrm posts in 358 that we always know the coroner's target, says in 361 that the coroner would never have a reason to investigate the night kill, and I offer a possible reason for that (362). Wyrm then says (367) that he assumes we get no flip information.
In 364 you ask what kind of information would we be getting from a coroner investigating a night kill, which I suggested he may do if investigating the lynch would give us absolutely nothing. I answer you in 369, repeating what I say in 362, and you say that would be revealing the coroner and the night kill, and that I'm advocating for the coroner to do just that.
I am not. And how is that different from the coroner investigating a lynch and finding out the lynch was a power role? Does that mean I'm advocating for the coroner to expose both themselves and the dead power role?

Let me repeat myself (again).
Is this you hoping for reactions again? Or is this you trying to suggest a wagon that you don't want to get on?
First off, there are two distinct we - the Town/Good-we, and the Scum/Evil-we, and you may well be be using the term "we" to appear as part of the Good-we when you're part of the Evil-we.

My point is that the only way we, whatever we you fall within, can gain information on Power-Roles is for the Coroner to come forward with it. If the Coroner investigates a dead player and keeps their findings to themselves, then we gain no additional information. Which, given the Evil win-condition, is the prudent course, imho.



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HijacK: Huh. Interesting game mechanic. I was expecting this to be a pretty standard game, but it seems to have quite a few twists and turns.
Thank you for, once again, dazzling us with your insightful contributions.



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cristigale: Yes, that is an interesting role.

If anyone suggests that no-lynch is a good idea for today, you have my vote.
I'd like to hear why you think this to be the best course for Town.



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trentonlf: Drealmer just posted a long post of what is probably wrong analysis, I'll be honest and I did not read it. I'm sure it said something along the lines of whoever voted him had to be scum or misguided and that we should all vote no lynch again. I still think his actions and behavior were anti town so ill put my vote there.

Vote drealmer
Outright admitting to not reading a player's post, yet expressing opinion/judgement on not only it's content but also the conclusions it reached, then state that what they post or do is irrelevant to your view on them (post #460), is far from what I'd think Town would, and should, do.

drealmer7 may well be Evil appealing to emotion, but, if you're Town, do you think that ignoring what he's saying and doing is the way to discern what the case is?

I'm with CSPVG on this one, and a bit surprised that only Dessimu besides him commented on it.



More to come.
Posted May 06, 2016
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Bookwyrm627: ...you're joking, right? Please tell me you're joking. Pretty, pretty please tell me you're joking.

C'mon CSPVG, I expect massively more than this from you.
I think that's honestly one of the stupidest things I've posted, and I've just realised why. To defend myself a little, I made those notes right after waking up, so I was still not in full possession of my faculties.

I apologise.
Posted May 06, 2016
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CSPVG: [...]

#386 - drealmer - "I don't like narrowing it down to six players," he said. "Instead, let's just narrow it down to my preferred two."

[...]
While this is not exactly how he put it, cheers for the chuckles.


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CSPVG: [...]

Interesting voting Tree Stump mechanic. I'd like to ask Bookwyrm his alignment now, but it would just be WIFOM.

[...]
I was going to comment on this, but I see that you replied to Bookwyrm627 in the meantime, so will put it to rest for now.


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CSPVG: [...]

I find JMich, flubbucket, HijacK, drealmer, and trentonlf most suspect at this point. Thoughts, anyone?
Is this in any particular order?



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Dessimu: I did not like this one bit. You yourself ask people many questions and feel irritated when they don't answer. Now I ask for nothing more than your opinion on trentonlf and all you did - was avoiding answering and even painting me as scum. This is evil.

In addition to that, you just made trentonlf look scummy as well. You made him look like your accomplice which means, you two could again be scum buddies.

That ^ said, I looked through your posts and the whole game you seemed to go rather well with trentonlf. Both in discussing targets, distinguishing what does/does not define lynches, nightkills. And tampering further with the idea of you two being scum buddies, post #351 gets another meaning. Specifically, the part, where you ask Bookwyrm about trentonlf and flubbucket:

"What do you consider as "more contributory" from those two? What would persuade you to consider lynching them, and why?"

What looks like scum-hunting and forming your opinion on the first glance, now can be interpreted that you wanted to know, what scummy vibes does trentonlf give away.

[...]
Key being the way you went about it - "I asked first" always reminds me of how kids usually go about, but I can't discard the case you're Mafia, hence the second part.

You also need to make up your mind - did I try to paint trentonlf in a bad light, which, I guess, would make me Mafia and trentonlf Town, or was I worried about the scum-vibes trentonlf was giving off, which, I guess, would make both trentonlf and me Mafia? Or are you considering another scenario?

Truth is that trentonlf appeared as his usual Town-self for the most part on D1. But that says little to nth, as he's pretty skilled in passing as Town when he's Mafia, and I didn't want to make it (too) obvious that I was looking in his direction.


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Dessimu: [...]

I sure do not know you very well. And I remember that game where you, trentonlf, cristigale were Mafia. At one point I called you out as scum and people all over, both in game and in observer's thread said that I "described Town-HSL to a teeth". Apparently, they were wrong and I did not know better.

I won't lie, I have my suspicions. You questioned drealmer7 rather hard. And then you just do not vote him, avoid having anything to do with him. Then what is the point in your questioning? Are you scum-hunting, or are you scum-painting?

Other players, who did not vote drealmer7 or jump/make another wagon, at least expressed their opinions of who is scum in a matter of voting. You did not. You just stood away from the action.

[...]
But you know me well enough to know how others' reactions make me feel?

If you had the time, and stayed in the game, I'd suggest you go and read the games I've played (they're not that many). Then you could form a better informed opinion about my play and voting as either alignment, instead of projecting your own belief on the matter on me, and others.

You also seem to imply that I stayed away from drealmer7's wagon giving no reason. And this after you've said that you went through my posts. Again, I'd suggest you go through them one more time, not sure if there's a point now that you've asked to be replaced.


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Dessimu: [...]

Given that Bookwyrm was nightkilled, and thought me and HypersomniacLive to be Town... Does this particular nightkill enforce idea of me and HSL being Town? I am now thinking that killing Bookwyrm was safe for scum in a way that HypersomniacLive (thinking him to be scum) would be treated as Town and questionable opinions about trentonlf removed from the game.

[...]
[emphasis added]

That's actually not what he said, post #344 [emphasis added]:
HSL and Dessimu have been too active (valuable if town, chances to trip if scum), so their off my list.
Kind of seems that you're trying to "confirm" yourself as Town through Bookwyrm627 while attempting to paint me in a bad light.


Still need to read drealmer7's post more thoroughly.
Posted May 06, 2016
I read drealmer' post and it's exactly what I thought it would be. He tries to make the no lynch seem like a good play for town, it was not. He then wants us to believe he's town and his wagon was full of scum and that's why he didn't get lynched since scum could not finish him off. I see it as scum didn't want to lose one of their players on Day 1 so they didn't get on his wagon or if they did it was at the end when it was obvious the lynch was not going to happen.

So there was no enlightening gleaned from reading what drealmer had to say other than to reinforce to me that he's scum.
Posted May 06, 2016
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HypersomniacLive: First off, there are two distinct we - the Town/Good-we, and the Scum/Evil-we, and you may well be be using the term "we" to appear as part of the Good-we when you're part of the Evil-we.
Love that you feel the need to both bold and italicize the we. And the post of mine you're replying to (442) uses we to mean the players, of both alignments. So yes, we are part of the players group, whether we are on the same team or not.

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HypersomniacLive: My point is that the only way we, whatever we you fall within, can gain information on Power-Roles is for the Coroner to come forward with it.
True.

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HypersomniacLive: If the Coroner investigates a dead player and keeps their findings to themselves, then we gain no additional information.
Temporarily true.

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HypersomniacLive: Which, given the Evil win-condition, is the prudent course, imho.
Is it always though? Or is this something similar to no lynch, which while usually something to avoid, there are times when it's prudent to go for?

Again, you seem to think that I want the coroner to go around telling us who he is and what he knows. I don't. I trust whoever the coroner is to know when they should come forward and when they shouldn't. But I did object to wyrm thinking that the coroner would only have reason to investigate the lynched ones, and never have reason to investigate the night killed ones.
Posted May 06, 2016
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JMich: But I did object to wyrm thinking that the coroner would only have reason to investigate the lynched ones, and never have reason to investigate the night killed ones.
Ironically enough, your scenario (which I thought to be a distant edge case at the time) will be coming true N2, assuming the coroner survives.

So JMich, would you have preferred a lynch (on anyone) to the current situation?

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HypersomniacLive: <snip>
HSL, what was your plan for if I pushed Drealmer to L-1?
Posted May 06, 2016
@hyper - post #468

Doing this from phone, so I'm going to skip the reasons common to most games and focus o on this game and D2 specifically. Bookworm is 99% confirmed town, be is also the only spectre. If I read the new PR correctly, they are required to get rid of a spectre each night. If we do not lynch anyone today, bookworm will be the only option on N2. He may be of only confirmed town all game... Depends on what happens with the coroner. If we lynch no one, bookwyrm only continue in the game if he was the third PR. It we have a night where no spectre is eliminated, we know that PR was killed. It Bookworm was the coroner, be is THE only confirmed town all game. We can't lose a confirmed town in this game.
Posted May 06, 2016
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HypersomniacLive: That's actually not what he said, post #344 [emphasis added]:

HSL and Dessimu have been too active (valuable if town, chances to trip if scum), so their off my list.
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HypersomniacLive: Kind of seems that you're trying to "confirm" yourself as Town through Bookwyrm627 while attempting to paint me in a bad light.
Yeah, he also said:
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Bookwyrm627: These four players don't have a D1 pass, and they don't have the content to match others without a pass (like you, Cristi, and Dessimu).
While basically it means we were more active and does not say "Hey, these guys 'n gal are totally Town!", for me it's as good as some form of trust that we are Town. See, I am. Bookwyrm takes me off his scum list (at least for D1) - it means to me that I am doing a decent enough job of being the Town that I am. For all I know, you should feel the same or similar.

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HypersomniacLive: Key being the way you went about it - "I asked first" always reminds me of how kids usually go about, but I can't discard the case you're Mafia, hence the second part.
Mafia part - I absolutely agree. As a smart townie, you should not discard that case - not now, not ever. Just as I do not discard the same case about you. "I asked first" reminds me of children just well. But the meaning of those words is just (as in, justified) - you answered my question with a question, avoiding sharing your opinion specifically about trentonlf. Why? God knows...maybe.

But this ^ finger pointing will get us no where and more or less you are letting your opinions about trentonlf and other players be known already.

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HypersomniacLive: You also need to make up your mind
But of course I do! And that is what I am trying to do. On one hand you are sharp and relentless and you ask players crucial questions, and you point out some good things, and so on...and that makes you bloody awesome Town. On the other hand, you give small innocent scummy vibes, like chanting. Your crucial questions ended with you voting no one (which can be argued, as to why you did not vote and I only state what looks how). Other scummy things are WIFOMs, so not mentioning them.

Point remains - you still present behavior, suitable for both factions. And you should be challenged just like other players are.

...

* refresh * I agree with cristigale, that we need to keep Bookwyrm alive.
Posted May 06, 2016
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JMich: [...] But I did object to wyrm thinking that the coroner would only have reason to investigate the lynched ones, and never have reason to investigate the night killed ones.
I'll leave it at this for now.



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Bookwyrm627: Ironically enough, your scenario (which I thought to be a distant edge case at the time) will be coming true N2, assuming the coroner survives.

[...]
Not sure I follow. Elaborate?


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Bookwyrm627: [...]

HSL, what was your plan for if I pushed Drealmer to L-1?
My plan? I didn't really have a plan for drealmer7's wagon, I think I made clear what bothered me with it.
The odds of giving in to the desire to see how Lynch-reveals are handled, and resisting it, were equal.

I will admit that I was more tempted to put him on L-1 myself to see if you'd hammer him.



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cristigale: @hyper - post #468

Doing this from phone, so I'm going to skip the reasons common to most games and focus o on this game and D2 specifically. Bookworm is 99% confirmed town, be is also the only spectre. If I read the new PR correctly, they are required to get rid of a spectre each night. If we do not lynch anyone today, bookworm will be the only option on N2. He may be of only confirmed town all game... Depends on what happens with the coroner. If we lynch no one, bookwyrm only continue in the game if he was the third PR. It we have a night where no spectre is eliminated, we know that PR was killed. It Bookworm was the coroner, be is THE only confirmed town all game. We can't lose a confirmed town in this game.
I have to admit that your phone's autocorrect, or whatever it is, makes it really hard to follow your train of thought.

Why is Bookwyrm627 99% confirmed Town, instead of 100%?

If Bookwyrm627 is the only Spectre on the table on N2, and he was not the Exorcist, then the actual Exorcist would have to select him and kill him for good. You say we can't lose a confirmed Town in this game, yet you seem to suggest we test on N2 if Bookwyrm627 was the third Power-Role.

And I don't see what the rush is to know that the Exorcist was killed. If they die, it will become apparent soon enough. But since Spectres can't be lynched, I'd say it's more imperative to protect that Power Role, and if we don't lynch, and if we don't have a killing ability, their only options will be townies. How does this help Town to eliminate the Evil?

Really can't follow your logic, so please try again.


@agentcarr1

Could you explain what "Semi-Compulsive" means, given that the Exorcist must choose a dead player every single Night?
Posted May 06, 2016
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Bookwyrm627: So JMich, would you have preferred a lynch (on anyone) to the current situation?
Not sure. If you had asked me on D1, then yes, I would have thought a lynch preferable to a no lynch, because I assumed that we would be getting alignment flips, so we would have a basis to analyze the wagons with.
What we currently have though is a wildly different situation.
We have an almost verified unlynchable unkillable town (that's you Wyrm), that has a single target vote. That is the difference we have compared to D1, slight, but may be important.

I do have the inklings of a plan, but it's so far in the left field, it's coming from the right. I'llhave to re read the spectres and exorcist explanations before posting it though, since it is quite possible that I am quite mistaken about its plausibility.
Posted May 06, 2016
Crucial question: what to do with lurkers? Specifically: babark, lotsofchickenwings, a4plz (to some extent), (a bit of) HijacK? Their lurking is not a good indication of any of them being scum. But this behavior is not helping Town at all. I would want to add CSPVG to that list, but when he is able, he sure post something more interesting and game related. It would be a pleasure hearing more from him though.

@babark - t'is D2 already, by now things have moved forward and you should have some opinion to share on what happened, on who do you think is scum. Sticking to the crowd and saying "I will jump on the whatever wagon" is fine as long as you give PROPER reasons for such behavior.

@lotsofchickenwings - for some time now the only posts that go through for you, seems to be the ones explaining why you posted nothing else. I will not judge, but take JMich's advice on posting, which in other words means: post in the way the CSPVG does. #(post number), bluh blah bleh, no quotes, no links.

@a4plz - at first you were active, that was grrreat! Now you lurk. Your opinion on things is "meh". You say you would just go with the crowd. Why? Why? WHY?! It is NOT pro-Town way of doing things. And you CAN do things. Do them!

@HijacK - people want to hear your super awesome ideas. Otherwise you will end up as a dummy for target practice. You can just as well say that you don't give much of...attention to the game for whatever reason, that would at least shine some light. But really, it's not about you participating more, it's about you participating in a way more quality way. Qualified... What's the right word here?
Posted May 06, 2016
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Bookwyrm627: Ironically enough, your scenario (which I thought to be a distant edge case at the time) will be coming true N2, assuming the coroner survives.

[...]
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HypersomniacLive: Not sure I follow. Elaborate?
I can answer this one. Assume the day ends without a lynch. Who will the coroner investigate? Oh, wait, they wouldn't investigate anyone, doing so would mean they would expose their role only to tell us if wyrm had a role as well.

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HypersomniacLive: Why is Bookwyrm627 99% confirmed Town, instead of 100%?
Weird case of WIFOM, especially with the no flips situation. I doubt this is the case with the first kill, but it may be worth keeping in mind for later nights that scum may attempt to night kill one of their own to have a "guaranteed" townie in play.
Posted May 06, 2016
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Dessimu: [...] For all I know, you should feel the same or similar.

[...]
There you go again with the feelings... Are you the cuddly emotional type, Dessimu?


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Dessimu: [...]

But this ^ finger pointing will get us no where and more or less you are letting your opinions about trentonlf and other players be known already.

[...]
Which begs the question why you insist to portray me as trying to conceal it. People don't necessarily go about things the way you do or would in their place. Not taking this into account, can cloud your judgement, and potentially lead you to erroneous conclusions.


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Dessimu: [...]

But of course I do! And that is what I am trying to do. On one hand you are sharp and relentless and you ask players crucial questions, and you point out some good things, and so on...and that makes you bloody awesome Town. On the other hand, you give small innocent scummy vibes, like chanting. Your crucial questions ended with you voting no one (which can be argued, as to why you did not vote and I only state what looks how). Other scummy things are WIFOMs, so not mentioning them.

[...]
I is kind, I is Good.

Sorry, but I just can't resist with you clinging on this so much.

In the game we both played, I gave you some advice - make reads to fit evidence, not evidence to fit reads. I hope you didn't dismiss it because I turned out to be Mafia in that game.


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Dessimu: [...]

Point remains - you still present behavior, suitable for both factions. And you should be challenged just like other players are.

[...]
If you're Town, it goes without saying that you should challenge me, just like everyone else. Key is to not do it based on how you would act/react if you were in my shoes.



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JMich: Not sure. If you had asked me on D1, then yes, I would have thought a lynch preferable to a no lynch, because I assumed that we would be getting alignment flips, so we would have a basis to analyze the wagons with. [...]
I'm really curious as to what exactly in the OP led you to assume that we'd be getting alignment flips.

And I'd also like everyone else to say what they expected about reveals when they read the OP.


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JMich: I can answer this one. Assume the day ends without a lynch. Who will the coroner investigate? Oh, wait, they wouldn't investigate anyone, doing so would mean they would expose their role only to tell us if wyrm had a role as well.

[...]
Keep it up.


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JMich: [...]

Weird case of WIFOM, especially with the no flips situation. I doubt this is the case with the first kill, but it may be worth keeping in mind for later nights that scum may attempt to night kill one of their own to have a "guaranteed" townie in play.
I can see this scenario now that the Spectres are in the open, but don't really see it for the N1 kill, unless someone wants to argue that Evil knew about the Spectres mechanic from the get go.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionForum Mafia Game #40 - Wilderberry Hollow(1653 posts)(1653 posts)
(1653 posts)