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General discussionForum Mafia Game #40 - Wilderberry Hollow(1653 posts)(1653 posts)
(1653 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 02, 2016
Votecount

drealmer7: 3 (babark, flubbucket, trentonlf)
a4plz: 1 (Dessimu)
babark: 1 (HypersomniacLive)
flubbucket: 1 (drealmer7)
HijacK: 1 (CSPVG)
JMich: 1 (Bookwyrm627)

No-Lynch: 2 (a4plz, drealmer7)

Not voting: HijacK, JMich, cristigale

drealmer7 is closest to lynch at L-4


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Dessimu: After the deadline, if majority of 7 votes is not reached - is the Day ending with No Lynch or is the player with most votes (lets say, 5) lynched?
As the Rules say, if a majority not reached, the Day will end with No-Lynch
Posted May 02, 2016
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drealmer7: cristi, you seem against no lynch, yet your non-vote and arguments do nothing to provide a reasonable alternative - at face value it seems like you're happy to lynch anyone, and in this setup, I find that scummy (dessimu too, others have not specifically chimed in to this regard, though I suppose trent has, but with sarcastic reasonlessness that is utterly unhelpful)
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Dessimu: I am against a no-lynch. I see it to be the best course of action to lynch someone. And I made my choice of a4plz as my best try to lynch scum. If (s)he is townie, then lynch should be helpful in providing information to make better judgement D2. As simple as that.
To me any noob wagon is a weak wagon and the informationed to be gleened is useless. JMich already explained this, but, I'll say it in my own words. All of the scummy things a4plz has done can be attributed to noob-ness and that just lends to WIFOM and gets a pass D1 because it seems the sportsmanship-like thing to do. I concede that this is not true/gets reversed if I get reads on a noob player that seems like they "are smarter/know more than they are letting on", but I'm not getting any of that from a4plz or babark, I'm simply getting a "noob figuring things out." Of all the noobs locw seems the most dangerous to me if he is scum.

Also remember, we're likely to not get a flip on the D1 wagon so the coroner has to come out D2 and expose themselves if they targetted the D1 lynch on N1 in order for us to learn anything about the D1 wagon. I am opposed to the coroner saying anything less they get a flip on a PR or mafia, otherwise they should stay silent. (any one else have thoughts on this?) this means we are likely in the same boat D2 (just as far as odds go, that we'll lynch a vanilla) with a vanilla mis-lynch as we are with a no-lynch. No-lynch is looking more and more reasonable to me as the hours go on.
Posted May 02, 2016
Here's the thing with no vote. We can't kill scum N1. There is no chance of killing scum n1. If we hit a townie that helps scum but at least we've tried.

Some say "well we have no information ?" This game is based on lies so what the hell more information will we actually get on D2. It's absurd to not lynch.
Posted May 02, 2016
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lotsofchickenwings: Here's the thing with no vote. We can't kill scum N1. There is no chance of killing scum n1. If we hit a townie that helps scum but at least we've tried.
and if we hit a PR? either forcing their claim or lynching them. and then what if the NK gets a PR and we only have 1 mistake left. what then? just "oh well we tried" ? you are more strategic minded than this and this reads scummy to me.

mis-lynching a vanilla on D1 helps scum much much more this setup than other setups
Posted May 02, 2016
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drealmer7:
In short: I am so tired that I just thought "reply" button is written upside down and it must be devil's work. You presented some good points. Fact that made me think my vote over, was that whatever we get, can be "explained" by novice status and in turn, gives another WIFOM.

I will sleep on all that, in the meantime I believe some others will also have interesting ideas. I might change my vote onto another player, and spontaneously I am not convinced that a no-lynch is a way to go.

Depending on what coroner would learn, he/she may just as well stay quiet during D2 if information gathered is of little use. Thus, no exposure. But that is just a "what if?" talk, not too much helpful.

...

See you in the morning.
Posted May 02, 2016
Things that have caught my attention:
Dessimu and drealmer both indicate the other is playing against their meta. I’m not sure I see that much difference on either side. I know drealmer has refrained from walls of text the last couple of games. Does anyone else see a difference in the way either are playing?

Trent seemed quite early in the game. When someone mentioned it he said: “I'm here, there's just nothing going on that I see a need to comment on” (post 168) I couldn’t argue with that at the time. The jokey vote at this stage on drealmer does seems strange. Drealmer may or may not be scum, but he seems like low hanging fruit. Trent’s vote bothers me.
@trent – can you say more on why you voted from drealmer?

Hyper was aggressive at the start. He toned it down after players started to mention it. He's done that as scum, but right now it seems weak for a lynch.

I not a fan of voting for a new player on the first day, but a4plz’s play has been far scummier than anyone else.

Right now, my top picks would be a4plz or trent. Hyper would be a distance third.
Posted May 02, 2016
Anyone with stats good with odds?

If you are so scared of killing a PR or vanilla - I understand that. But when does the fear end ? According to this logic D2 we don't lynch anyone either.

If I'm ill-informed I am open to hearing otherwise.

I'll acknowledge that I don't know how much information comes out in a N1 lynch.

What I do know - is that the only shot to kill scum is during the day. This game is a game of odds and what person in their right mind votes to put off taking action on those odds.

Drealmer7 - you say it's critical if we kill a vanilla or PR. Of course it is - but that's why we play the game ! That's why we take the shot at actually hitting scum!
Posted May 02, 2016
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cristigale: Are you done with finals? We appear to be moving out of RVS. Would be great to hear your impressions so far.
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HijacK: Not even close. I got 4 more finals, an argumentative paper, and 7 seminar reports to do and study for this weekend.
@Hijack – I know you’re busy but at least contribute SOMETHING. Other than saying that the votes on you are bogus, you have said nothing relevant to the game. If the day ended right now and you were killed tonight, we would have nothing to go on – no reason why someone might want you dead other than it reveals the least amount of information.
Posted May 02, 2016
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cristigale: If we get some information on the flips, roles and/or alignment, then we have something to work with tomorrow. The wagon itself also provides clues. If we vote no-lynch, we are essentially starting tomorrow in the same place as today. We'll still be guessing about the mechanics of the game, the results of the NK (assuming there is one) might give us a clue on the mechanics. Until we actually lynch someone we won't know for sure. How does being in this same situation tomorrow help us?
Doesn't the Mafia kill also count as a flip? I thought fresh corpses from either source were always flipped unless otherwise stated.

Either way I get the impression that agentcarr is going to reveal something of note after tonight, unless this is some hardcore round where the bonus rules aren't even mentioned until half the town is dead. I'm betting on the former though.

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Bookwyrm627: Dessimu's post reminds me. Would you three mind providing your preferred pronoun use (male/female)?
My honest answer is "don't care lol", but I'm used to people assuming I'm male on the internet if you want to roll with that.
Posted May 02, 2016
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HijacK: Last I checked few, if any, people follow my lead, so I was never worried about this happening.

[...]
Ever wondered why that may be?


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HijacK: Bruh, pls. You're speaking to the Pro. Hmu when people stop playing 'cause of you.
Are you proud or pleased with this?



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drealmer7: [...]

Seriously though, whoever is scum, I really don't want to be the D1 lynch AGAIN, I know I'm not an enticing night target, but can you please pick on someone else D1? thanks
[emphasis added]

How nice. This is something that a4plz was advised as being a bad thing to do, and was chalked up to noobie error. But coming from you? Are you Good that desperately wants to stay alive, just to see more than D1 regardless of anything else, or Evil laying the ground for surviving the Night if you don't get lynched Today?


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drealmer7: [...] Worst worst case would be we L-1ed the herbalist and they can't even hope for protection tonight after being outed. [...]
[emphasis added]

Really?


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drealmer7: [...] I am opposed to the coroner saying anything less they get a flip on a PR or mafia, [...]
Because if we get absolutely zero info on lynches, it surely is a brilliant idea to let Scum know how close to winning they are, right?


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drealmer7: [...] we need to avoid EoD lynch-rush [...]
We know you're following yogsloth's game, but is this really necessary?


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drealmer7: vote count / votecount / vote-count

[...]
I kindly ask you to not spam the thread with your method of vote-counting, it's distracting.



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babark: [...]

I'd like to participate, and I'm following the discussions going on here, but like I said, with the current level of information, I don't see what else can be discussed. If someone says something I deem response-needing, I'll do it!
So, in over 300 posts, you've found absolutely nth to comment on, or share your own view?

This unfortunately applies to a few of the more seasoned players too. Is it really that much to ask people to be more involved, and give their impressions and input? We are approaching the deadline, after all.
Posted May 02, 2016
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cristigale: If we get some information on the flips, roles and/or alignment, then we have something to work with tomorrow. The wagon itself also provides clues. If we vote no-lynch, we are essentially starting tomorrow in the same place as today. We'll still be guessing about the mechanics of the game, the results of the NK (assuming there is one) might give us a clue on the mechanics. Until we actually lynch someone we won't know for sure. How does being in this same situation tomorrow help us?
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a4plz: Doesn't the Mafia kill also count as a flip? I thought fresh corpses from either source were always flipped unless otherwise stated.

Either way I get the impression that agentcarr is going to reveal something of note after tonight, unless this is some hardcore round where the bonus rules aren't even mentioned until half the town is dead. I'm betting on the former though.
Yes, the results of the NK is the mafia flip (unless we receive evidence to the contrary, I'm assuming only a mafia kill). The information we receive on the mafia flip may or may not be the same as the lynch flip. Typically, they are the same. Given what we know so far, I'm not sure it is safe to assume that yet.

Agent said he would reveal the nature of the third power role at the start of D2.
Posted May 02, 2016
Excellent, I feel validated in waiting for the morning then ;]

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HypersomniacLive: I kindly ask you to not spam the thread with your method of vote-counting, it's distracting.
I actually quite like drealmer7's votecounts.
Posted May 02, 2016
We're in an unusual setup. All Evil have to do to win is kill our 3 Power-Roles. We'll probably get zero info on flips.
So, I can see why our power-roles would want, more than in any other setup, to lay low during the Day as to not become the lynch target, but at the same time it serves Scum to act in a similar manner, and everyone will keep hesitating and wondering.

A couple have commented that I appear aggressive. Given the number of people just sitting back, and playing it pretty safe, and not much, if anything, being done to change it, I'm sure I do.

And no, cristigale, I've not toned it down, if at all, for the reason you think. Interesting that you're only looking at tone, and not actions. But I must say, that playing with me as scum has benefited your game. If you're Town, do you really think it's in Town's best interest to lynch me?


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drealmer7: [...]

(obvious) 1st worst case scenario [which is unlikely to occur, I think] - we lynch a power role today, one gets killed tonight, we lynch one tomorrow, and that is the end of the game. I think this is unlikely to happen because if someone gets to L-1 and they claim a PR and it doesn't stink to high-heaven, I imagine we'll let them live, today, tomorrow, etc. [...]
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drealmer7: and if we hit a PR? either forcing their claim or lynching them. and then what if the NK gets a PR and we only have 1 mistake left. what then? [...]
You really need to make up your mind.

drealmer7 wants us to consider No-Lynch. My question is this - if, as the OP and the presence of a Coroner suggest, we get no flip on the N1 kill, we'll enter D2 at the point we entered D1, minus a townie. What do we do then? No-Lynch again? How many Days do we follow this strategy?
The Coroner won't get any info on the N1 kill before N2, which means he will always be one step behind. If the Unique Role has no killing abilities, all NKs will be townies, so the Coroner's job will be to find out if they were a power-role, something they shouldn't reveal anyway, imho.
Lynching the power-roles is a danger, but we can't sit all game praying that Scum kill Vanillas at Night until we have some sort of epiphany as to who may be Scum.

I suggest you read flubbucket's Milk Game. Granted, not the same setup, but no flips, and the Coroner was killed N1. Yet Town won in the end, and did lynch people every Day except one.
Posted May 02, 2016
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cristigale: @trent – can you say more on why you voted from drealmer?

.
It's simple, drealmer has been pushing for no lynch since the day started. A no lynch today is bad for town and anyone who has towns best interest at and would not be voting for a no lynch or pushing for it. The Friends comment was not a serious one, although I will disagree about his take on Friends as I think it's one of the best tv shows made.
Posted May 02, 2016
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HypersomniacLive: ............<snip>............

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drealmer7: vote count / votecount / vote-count

[...]
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HypersomniacLive: I kindly ask you to not spam the thread with your method of vote-counting, it's distracting.

............<snip>............
Agreed.

I think focusing on a player's "meta" is without merit. It leads to foolish mistakes.

With that, I don't find you (HypersomniacLive) to be doing anything other than scum hunting.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionForum Mafia Game #40 - Wilderberry Hollow(1653 posts)(1653 posts)
(1653 posts)