I've already answered it twice, I think (at least once), and I didn't have time to respond (or rather, to dig up where I'd previously done so) after the last time you asked it.

There were a couple hints dropped by HijacK that read herbalist to me (I can go find them if you reaallly want, AGAIN), something about sipping aloe and another that seemed more obvious but I don't remember what it was currently. I was hoping you'd have maybe gone back and read and found it yourself (both his hints and my answering), as I don't even understand why it is an issue anymore to know.

Can you explain to me why you think my not-answering (though I have) such a question must make me Evil? I don't get it.

Also, would you all (whoever is doing it), quit treating me like I think I'm superior and arrogant or whatever else you've got it in your heads that has you viewing me poorly/like I'm an asshole and allowing you to drive the community apart with differences rather than bring it together with similarities. It's not how I feel/am and it is tiring and I'm starting to take it personally. I'm sorry I come off like an arrogant asshole, I really am, it's not my intention, and I'm really not. Hopefully we can work it out after the game and continue to be civil and even friendly with each other moving forward.

" I realize you have little time to explain yourself to those of us way down here, but again: " do you want to try and get along and have fun playing together or do you just want to be dicks to each other all of the time? just fucking stop already, geebus! Address game issues, and leave such comments out of it, unless of course you're Evil and are just trying to provoke me, but I'm done being provoked by petty BS and every time it is done you just look more scummy to me (ohnooo, he's viewing me as scummy because blah blah blah...get over it.)

catching up more...

Reading adalia as Evil at the time, it read to me like he thought it possible he was going to be dead and therefor not be able to participate in the night-chat and so wanted to be sure his scum-buddies got the idea. If yogsloth had been the final PR, any other implications wouldn't have mattered because the game would have been over. Also, never make assumptions in this game unless you are SET on sticking to them and following them through (don't assume all the Evil players would have noticed it, it's not a matter of thinking if Evil is competent enough, it's about analyzing all possibilities. Like, what if the mafia team is adalia, locw, and babark? maybe adalia didn't think his scum-buddies might necessarily pick up on the subtleties and wanted to be sure? Or maybe it was simply a poor move on adalia's part [afterall, he was so confident in HijacK being scum, what sort of competencies do you allow for then?]) RW is promoting discussion about it, not pushing an agenda like you seem to be doing.

I've been keeping my eye on you the whole game, never discounting the possibility that you could be scum because I know how slick you are at this game, not one single post (I think) has given me any single register on my scum-dar for you. But this one sets it off the scale. Why do you find JMich, babark, and yogsloth to be the most likely Evil?

I would say yes he is. That is how it looks/reads to me, along with a lot of his stuff with JMich and previously with me. I think it is what he does when he is mafia, twist and twist and twist 1 and 2 and 3 and...until everyone is so confued and filled with doubt he draws enough suspicion to his target and gets them killed. Not that he cares, but his posts from today (including voting JMich right out of the gate with no words) are all pinging scummy to me hard. Like he's trying to bully his way to a win.

I'll admit I didn't look over much because I have already looked it over and over and over and am pretty set where I am. I got almost the entire garden planted (over 100 tomato spouts in the ground! along with lots of other seeds of things!) while waiting for daybreak, and with the weather and timing of everything else I've been doing outside, night couldn't have been timed better!

This is essentially the argument I was posing D1 and why I thought it was worth discussing, except that it holds true for all days since the beginning, if you actually follow logic and numbers (mislynches of vanilla just gets them MORE closer because of the PR-deaths-wins mechanic.) *sigh*

holy crap it really looks like HSL is trying to push the idea that adalia was town, and then gives a fake "of course I could be wrong/I'm not set on adalia being town" comments to make it all a big pile of poo.

I've re-read the JMich stuff and the HSL stuff in regards to it all. It really just reads to me like HSL is intentionally mis-understanding, mis-representing, and twist twist twisting it all to make something out of pretty much nothing. Like "OMG you weren't perfect in every single one of your thoughts and articulations! You must be Evil~!" uhhh, what?!

adaliabooks asked you in post #1021 and you have never even hinted at an answer, much less answered the question directly. I have since asked you twice with no response.


Careful now.

Name calling was what got you on the naughty list originally. You really want to push it any further??

They are getting an extra day kill now only if Adalia was town, or are you admitting to some inside knowledge? As to the slip itself, Adalia was the one who kept bringing power roles up. Post 625 where Adalia even tried to claim that a full role-claim wouldn't be bad for town somehow with this format (a game with many vanillas and few flips). That somehow we'd be able to spot the scum from all the vanilla claims. Or the "would the real Coroner claim" attempt among other PR discussions. I'm just not buying the idea that this is too reckless to be scum, because it is equally too reckless to be town.

You are neglecting that a no-lynch would get rid of a likely town spectre and still leave them a night kill. I see no reason for them to push all that hard for a lynch. As to Yogs in an Adalia town scenario, I probably slightly favor him being town, but I certainly would not ignore the possibility he could be a plant. I don't think it matters, because I'm pretty sure Adalia was scum (which makes Yogs town).

And trust me when I say I plan to take a serious look at JMich and others on Adalia's wagon. I remember a game where Krypsyn and his partner were guiding the sheep to the slaughter and realized after I should have asked the question "Why is he still alive?" or "If he's town, why isn't he dead yet?" Of course, I also have to consider whether the answer to that last question is scum thinks they can get him lynched instead.

I'm pretty convinced they will have one scum on and one off because it makes too much sense. Moreso if the scum team is composed of veteran players. I do need to re-read it, but from what I recall the distortions and mis-attributions went both ways in that kerfuffle. And the whole premise of your tiff seems about how JMich seemed to you to have information unavailable to town. I was wondering why you thought scum would have such early knowledge. I found most of the discussion to be about nothing. I honestly saw most of it as a misunderstanding on both sides, but also wondered if that was two scum positioning, making it very "obvious" how they were not on the same side.

I didn't answer then because it had already been addressed 410 posts earlier, I thought. Do you need me to go find the referened post by HijacK for you?

I didn't make a statement, I asked a question. It seems you are the one who wants to push it further by still nagging around it. just drop all this BS already, please, I don't know how else to say it, other than your scumminess just keeps increasing, but if this is not the case, please stop badgering me.

You are again not answering the simple question posed to you.

HijacK claimed herbalist prior to your noted post. Are you asserting that after he claimed you then knew??

You truly are a champion player.

I'm not asking for anything regarding HijacK's postings.

I'm asking you to be honest and state how you were the only one who knew HijacK was the herbalist in your post #1013.

Like I said, I'm not at all interested in HijacK's posts....or even his claim. My point is why can't dreamler answer a simple question.

He can pontificate about so many things, but when asked a direct question....he doesn't have the time to go back and check.

I think complaining about not getting direct answers to a question which was actually answered is about as useful as arguing about who knew about the Exorcist powers before anyone else actually knew about the Exorcist powers.

Short story...
I think one scumbuddy is on the Adalia wagon for cover. I'm less inclined to believe its JMich or Babark because of the way Adalia seemed to try really hard to get them lynched. I doubt think it's Drealmer who had Adalia as a suspect for a long time and was the first vote. Leaves you and ChickenWings.

My vote remains for now.

Funny, drealmer7, when it's a player you decided is Town, you can justify and excuse just about everything they've said and done; if it's a player you decided is Mafia, (obvi) scum-tells is all you can see in their posts.
Anyone questioning the former is, for the n-th time, misunderstanding, misrepresenting, and twisting their words because they're Scum, and anyone trying to discuss that there may always be a different POV regarding the latter is pushing an agenda because... they're Scum.

Something somehow tells me that if it were trentonlf or me that had said half of the things JMich said you'd be all over us for acting more than scummy.



This is exactly my point.


I'm not neglecting anything. Mafia knows if the lynched player is Town or their own. That's why I expect them to play smart enough and push for a Town-Lynch, and look for the remaining Power-Role among less players. We also know that the Exorcist will more likely remove the lynched one than the NK-ed one, because we have no way of verifying alignments.
With a lynch, they quite likely get rid of a Town player and the likely Town-Spectre and their vote remains in the game.
With No-Lynch, a likely Town-Spectre gets removed and a Town player and their vote remains in the game.
Granted, Spectres have abilities, but after Bookwyrm627 more or less made it clear that it's the living players that will win or lose the game, I'm not sure any use of them will be apparent to us.
And in spite the Lynch, we still lost a confirmed Town-Spectre on N3.


I will wait to hear what you have to say.


[emphasis added]

Can you, please, point out where adaliabooks did this?



Doctor's orders!

On phone sorry for long quote. Only need to read the "should adaliabooks held off until night" portion from above.



This has been the biggest wine in front of me. Though - now that I think about it it's no longer WINEY. But the question of "should adaliabooks held off until night to kill yogs if yogs was exorcist. " if adaliabooks knows there's something fishy in the state of multiple PM's then she knows yogs is something. If she knows this and is scum .... I guess it makes sense - because either he's the exorcist / scum kill him and they win / or adaliabooks has just used a slip to get rid of another townie by drawing attention to it ... And then hoping to get the exorcist at night and have two less townies for the day.

Good lord I'm getting drunk on my own wine.

As town - we have to consider the worst. Adaliabooks made a slip in calling undue attention to yogs , but was somehow town. And yogs was perceived as scum to be exorcist. Perhaps the most sacrificial thing yogs actually did was never answer the question of the multiple PMs. Maybe he knew what it looked like and took one NK for the team. Not sure I think that - but it reads town to me now.

Still seems like a massive slip considering all the attention it got.

Back to - we have to consider -- not original with me ... I think flubb or Jmich saying they don't think we've killed any scum. But what if we haven't.

And before counting -
Agent you can't tell us what happened to cristigale. But can you tell us if Mafia knew something could happen to cristigale ... Either as a spectre or after using the power.

If Mafia new - then it makes more sense for a yogs Mafia kill if he's Mafia - why? Because there is one less town spectre vote.

Back to counting.

So 8 living
2 spectre voting
10 votes remaining

1 of 2 spectre votes 99% (100 in my book ) confirmed town

If 3 Mafia remain it's 7-3 for votes. If 2 Mafia remain it's 8-2 votes.

Yuck - odds yesterday if adaliabooks being scum (strictly matt speaking ) only 25%.

I still don't get the self lynch ... And it doesn't sit well with me ... But do I actually wonder town because 25% is not easy in this game.

I've wined myself out. Full disclosure - as you might be asking "what's gotten into chicken that's he's rambling so much." This is the first time it's felt like the 20th of April for me in several months.

As part of the Adalia, "Lynch Anyone But Me Tour"...
Post #817 Adalia claims his vote for Trent was bait and Babark fell into the trap
Post #876 Hops off Babark, to Yogsloth
Post #956 Hops off Yogsloth to Flubbucket
Post #993 Off Flubbucket, Back to Babark
Post #1009 Off Babark to JMich
Post #1020 JMich back to Babark (3rd time)
Post #1110 Off Babark back to JMich (2nd time)

If jumping back to Babark 3 times isn't a sign they aren't scumbuddies, I don't know what is. And back to JMich a 2nd time gives me serious doubts. And if Adalia was scum, I wouldn't be surprised to see him try to throw people off the trail by throwing a scumbuddy somewhere in the vote hopping tour. Again, I'm liking one included, one ignored and Flub is at an interesting point in the back and forth...isn't he?

Sometimes HSL, I get the sense for all the claims others aren't reading the thread or paying attention, you seem to be missing a lot. I made my statement, did you actually investigate it or not? Because "[emphasis added]" sure makes it seem you claim to have investigated yet obviously you didn't...

Someone please tell me otherwise - but so far, this boiled down your of adaliabooks and the voting really does make me think scum. Anyone who's played with adaliabooks before - have they ever been so vote happy during a day?

@RW - I don't really think you are scum. But actually - not tottaly unlike adaliabooks - I don't like that I like so much of what you are saying. I'm sacred of trusting someone so eloquent.

Okay okay, I'll tell you how I knew I was the only one that knew HijacK was the herbalist (that's the question, right? How did I know I was the only one who knew?) I'm psychic. I can read every single one of your minds, so I know what each of you knows and doesn't know. Even bler (I "feel" your mind bler! don't try to hide!)

Seriously though, flubbucket is just trying to cause distraction here, folks. Trying to create hubbub over something out of nothing to get the focus off of his scum-buddies (what else could it be? It seems ridiculous to even be talking about at this point.) You notice how he didn't answer my question about why does me knowing or not knowing or answering or not answering how I knew make me SO CERTAINLY Evil that I'm worth voting for? That seems more relevant here now than something that happend what, over 500 posts ago?

For those who desire more (though, again, really, such talk is a distraction I think, and I'm sorry for feeding into it, but in case flub or others really can't follow the logic, let me hold your hand through the very basic steps [would you like me to teach you to read, too? I see indications you could use some reading-lessons, since you can't seem to get my name right, it's DREALMER]):

Obviously I couldn't *know*, there is no undisclosed PR of a day-time seer in this game (or is there?! muahahahaaa!!) Very early on in the game I noticed things that to me were possible indications that he was a PR, one of them specifically indicated that he could be the herbalist. I've detailed where I saw indications of a PR and more specifically the herbalist. Those thoughts were confirmed when HijacK claimed, which leads to an expression (I'll agree, not an accurate one) "haha! I KNEW it!" It's a common expression here in the US, when someone has a strong idea/feeling/inclination/indication of something but doesn't actually *know* it for sure, and then they get a confirmation of their suspections and exclaim "I KNEW IT!" Is that clear now? FFS.

Further, I don't actually think I was the only one with an awareness to the indications HijacK was giving. JMich at least showed a backward knowledge of it (of course he very well could have gone back and looked to see what I was talking about when I said "I have reason to believe/think that HijacK is a PR" to see if he could find the breadcrumbs himself, or he could have been aware of it the whole time, I don't *know*, and I suspect trentonlf suspected HijacK to have a PR (if not specifically the herbalist) as well (hence why he started pushing him so early, to me an indication of scum having an awareness of the possibility of a player being a PR and trying to get the lynch on him, which they eventually did.)

is all of that clear now?

RW, I'm with you more now about flub being possible scum (he's contributed almost nothing the entire game, after all, and seems to just be wanting to lurk to victory instead of help town figure all of this out, especially now with this distraction about my knowledge of HijacK. I think I might be the only one he has pushed at all the entire game, some of which was in line with trent's pushing of my wagon on D1, and I've had him on my radar all game, but nothing as solid to go on up until now, with this ridiculousness), but I also still strongly think trent is.

Rather than splitting votes and weakening town's resolve (which scummy to go for?), I say we pick one and stick to it for today. I think trent already has 3 votes (me, babark, JMich), and you would make 4. If I switched over to flub (which I'm very inclined to do) that would make it 2 and 2, and that doesn't do so well with moving a wagon forward.

Of course do what you think is best, but with how things are going this game, do you really see enough people agreeing about flub over trent or someone else at this point? I'm not saying I won't join you on flub, but, it is something to talk about at least.

Good grief, man, quit putting words into my mouth. None of this is accurate, and you're simply speaking in generalizations anyway. It sounds to me that you're being a whiner because I don't agree with your view of JMich. Seriously, I looked at it, it seems like a big pile of nothing that you're trying to create something from, *shrug* I know I could be wrong (gasp!), but even so, there's nothing substantial enough there for me to think he is scum and you've done a horrible job at making a case that he is, everything you've done just makes you look scummy to me and hasn't really made a good case against JMich. If you really want me on board with you, try harder with logic, this sort of response quoted above does nothing for me as far as convincing me.

If you care to be accurate about me/my position and want me to clarify for you and you are not just looking for things to twist and misrepresent, get back to me with something that is actually addressable (example: "hey, drealmer, you said this and this here and here about this person, to me it reads like you are being biased because of this and this and you're missing this and this, can you clarify for me what you meant or help me understand how I'm mis-reading you or explain your point of view in light of the this and this I just pointed out to you?), otherwise, fuck off, scum, you bother me.

This is exactly what I think it is, and it fits yogs' usual stellar play as normal. WTG yogs, I say!

I actually called it here at the bottom of the post. It was the only scum-move that could have made him look town at that point. I also think my talking about it was part of the cornering which made him do it (GO ME! MAD SKILLZ! I ROCK! that arrogance is *sarcasm* because I know some of you view me to actually be arrogant like that, so I'll play into it for fun!)

Nice!

Never trust. Always use your own judgement. I'm doing my best to throw good honest ideas out there. I'm hoping this will spur others to do the same. Hopefully more people making contributions. I can definitely be wrong. I have been wrong in the past. I might miss something obvious. I'm hoping others can fill in the blind spots.

I read Adalia as much more likely scum than town, but I do acknowledge he did a good job pushing the narrative by self-voting and staying with it after the lynch if he's scum.

Another reason I'm mostly discarding the idea Adalia can be town for now is two-fold. I have doubts we can win if 3 scum are still alive and we definitely won't win by splitting our lynches back-and-forth between both scenarios as following the idea Adalia was scum will almost necessarily present a different scum list than Adalia as town.

If Adalia = scum: We just need to find two more scum.
Adalia = town: We need to be right 3 times.

And a 6:2 split sounds a lot better than 5:3 among the living.