I don’t think It overly influences the game much, would just need to make scum around 20-23% or so I would think. It just turns into who’s the best liar in a no PR game.

You would need to make it public knowledge though as scum would know right away that there’s probably no PR’s even without being told.

But what do they lie about? How does that game even start? I don't understand how things would kick in gear. Do the scum get a free N0 kill to get things going? That maybe would give the players something to talk about during the day as the lynch would be meaningless otherwise. With a preemptive kill there is at least a potential of discussing who would kill that particular player and why, and maybe go from there but even then I still don't see how this would work outside of Town shooting in the dark based on next to nothing.

The lie is that they are Town and want to find scum. Day 1 would be the same as always and a shot in the dark for the most part. With no PR’s wagon analysis and questions that put players on record is even more necessary. It would be like a Sherlock Holmes mystery with the only knowledge being what people say and how they vote.

I don't think this is necessarily the case. I game with a couple of the "default" roles what the day ultimately boils down to is to get one or more claims going. Then you have information to work with - who claimed what, who's claim made it through the lynch, from the one that got lynches - why that happened, who bought or didn't buy it and so on. With zero roles I don't see how things won't end up along the lines of:

A)

- You scum, fella?
- Nope. Not me.
- OK then. Moving on.

B)

- You scum, mate?
- Nuh-uh!
- I don't believe you!!

VOTE

I honestly don't see what people would base their reads or accusations on during the first days. After a few lynches and NKs maybe patterns may start to emerge but with people having next to nothing to go on I feel there will be even more Town-powered mislynches.

There's been games without powers on gog before right? Does anyone recall one I could look at?

But you usually don't get a claim on D1 till L-1 anyway. And before that happens you still have to go throught finding out who's most likely to be lying.

Lying about what? There is nothing to lie about (outside the alignment, obviously, but that isn't a good enough metric on it's own). You can't blame someone for role-fishing, you can't hint at powers or pick up on said hints. You can just pick a name, vote it and hope to hit scum. What could possibly someone say on an empty D1 that can persuade you your pick was correct or not?

On our normal games there is a discussion, yes, but it's ultimate goal on D1 is to get that claim as in 9 out of 10 cases it swings the game in some way and serves as a stepping stone to build on during the next day. This is completely gone here and everyone knows it, so there is no way someone can speculate about it or make a risky claim about anything like that. I'm sure such games have been played but I just don't see how this game is not busted until later days. And it's terrible for the first elimination, too, as that player either got killed N0 without even getting to play or got lynched D1 because of no good reason.

Again, maybe I'm mistaken but to me this looks like a very chaotic and not so enjoyable situation for the Town until mid to late game where things might open up a bit.

Here is an extremely simplified analogy of what I'm talking about.

I just flipped a coin. I got heads. Am I telling the truth or not?
You need to give me a yes or no answer and explain your thought process in a satisfactory way.

cristi's #46 Henchmen Hijinks. Had a nice twist to get conversation started.

You flipped tails you scummy bastard!!

OK. How do you get someone to L-1 in a normal "roleful" game?

Yes, I see. Interesting game I bet. Pity it's in language I can't read. :-/

Same way but you have that claim in the end and that's when the game livens up and people start working angles. Without the role and no extra information to start with it's always going to be RNG.

Edit: In addition, RVS breakers are more often than not related to roles or game mechanics in some way (someone rolefishes or gets into/starts a discussion about roles/mechanics or whatever along those lines and that kind of form a trail to blaze). In a bland game there's no that either. That's probably the only game when random.org is as good option as any.

I lied about flipping the coin to being with :P

Are you sure you posted the proper link?

But how do we decide whom to get to L-1? rng?

See the edit to my previous post. In some cases it might be rng, yes, but more often than not someone says or does something that doesn't make a whole lot of Town sense and it draws the focus and can be used as a good lead. What is that something in a game that is publicly know as all-vanilla? But in the end you always will get someone to L-1. And they will claim. And you will think about whether or not you believe that claim based on what you know. You might know more or less than others and that will likely affect your judgement. But in the end people would form opinion based on something and decide on whether or not to go through with the lynch. Give me an example on what sways your opinion from the person you chose in a game where you know no one is more valuable than the rest. How do you do wagon analysis where the wagons are guaranteed to be based on nothing initially?

I found it. That's what I meant. There was that extra mechanic that provided the initial building blocks (I'm not going to bother reading the whole game to see how useful that was but I assume it got the players through the first 1-2 days at least and possibly continued echoing until the end). If it's a plain game with nothing you have exactly that to start on - nothing.