@ Person who's sent me a message - I'll be able to read it when I get to an actual computer. I'm not ignoring you!


regarding poppy and flub - I think you're both great people. I can't offer much in the way of solutions, but you've got a lot of love from a lot of people here.

yes <3 !!1!

Yes. If you have to take turns playing, then so be it. But I still wish you would learn to get along (or at least ignore each other) so that you can play in the same games.

Yeah, this pretty much sums it up. I hope to play in games with both of you in the future even if not at the same time.

Every mafia team I've seen here on GOG always eventually came to a consensus. There are typically a few decent targets, discussion occurs, and the group will finally agree on a kill (or lack thereof). Sometimes the mafia members will just defer to someone else's stronger opinion, but I don't think I've ever seen a mafia team get gridlocked through intractability.

I can't speak for the wider world. There are enough jerks out there that I imagine it has been a problem somewhere.

This.

Dawn flavour about there being a terrible argument, then all of the mafia members simultaneously shoot each other. Town rejoices. Then gets murdered by a serial killer.

LOL too funny! Hey you were my town sounding board last game - too bad I run my mouth too much and get killed ;)

Not exactly the same but same result - there was the first dungeon game where HiJack was completely MIA one night. Yogsloth opted to let the team decide the kill in his absence [which I have no issue with, but was not consensus] - and to use his strongman power to boot to make the kill - which was the part I thought was problematic.

But yogs was mod, so...

I suppose it might have been better phrased as "I haven't seen any mafia really fight over the NK. Except maybe who gets the pleasure of murdering someone." If someone is completely MIA, then the team works around it.

It would appear nobody told me we were airing our dirty laundry in public. I would have appreciated a ping rather than being subquoted, since I've only just seen this. I'm prepared to take your comments at face value for argument's sake, but consider my perspective. I've almost certainly forgotten some of the details, but let's have at it.

You were aware that I wished in retrospect that I had made explicitly clear in the rules for #53 that players should not use avatars or title text to communicate with other players, as this violated day/night phase posting restrictions and the requirement to have all game communication presented in a permanent and unedited format. In response to this, you changed your avatar to a Cylon toaster - an obvious suggestion of a Mafia claim - during the night phase. This had a substantial tangible effect on the game, as it was noticed by the Town's vigilante, who shot you as a result. From the PMs I received, I know that they would have otherwise shot a Mafia player. As such, your actions can legitimately be seen as a major factor in the Town's loss. As the moderator, I found this incredibly frustrating, and I'd been frustrated by the extent to which your avatars had been speculated upon in-game prior to that: the issue of your avatars being used as claims dominated discussion during Day 1 of the game, which you'll recall ended in a no-lynch. You were, for reference, a Vanilla Townie. There's a large degree of tolerance for varying levels of skill between players, but a player who seemingly purposefully causes their own team to lose is without a doubt a bad player.

Since we're posting PMs, we may as well include the PMs I sent you after your death in #53: The Cylon Toaster avatar incident caused me to double down on my belief that you should pick an avatar before you get your PM and stick to it, and I continued to push for such a provision earlier in this thread.

You didn't reply to my comments regarding your conduct, but during the sign-up thread for #54 a day or two later (not during #53, as you claimed) you changed your avatar to mine. This struck me as rather passive-aggressive. The avatar that you copied was a Fairfoxed version of my face, so to say that your use of it was unsettling would be an understatement. You can see here that I changed my avatar after that.

Let's have a PM that I sent to Joe in response to this: It would be unfair of me to post Joe's reply to this, so I won't. However, after Joe told you to change your avatar, you changed your avatar to his avatar. That seemingly kicked off the "everybody has everyone else's avatar" thing. I noted my objections to this a few times; for reference, I primarily read the forum on my phone, hence the avatar a person uses is my primary means of identifying another player. During the Russian Roulette game that preceded #54 I was away for work and was entirely reliant on my phone to read the game. I found that I had great difficulty knowing who was posting, as well as forming reads on players because the avatars were all scrambled. Your response to me indicating that I didn't want to play under those circumstances was distinctly less than pleasant, and incredibly passive aggressive - it's quite apparent this was a reference to the prior discussion in this thread, which again, you never personally responded to. At this point, it was fairly obvious that you were directing attacks at me out of some kind of personal animus. (I should note that that avatar switching continued into the game, so without a doubt I would not have enjoyed playing.)

Let's have some more PMs from the time, which I sent in conversations to others. Here's one regarding your post: When asked about me dropping out of #54 before the game: Neither individual spoke at all positively of your post.

I don't recall the details in between then and #55, so I'll skip over that.

[My complete post seems to have hit the character limit, so I'll post the rest in part 2.]

[Continued from the previous post]

During the game I told you to show respect to your fellow players by putting in some effort rather than using your confirmed Townie status to clown around and make ridiculous claims and arguments, and shoot barbs at others. As you note, you called me a "hateful player". It's hard to see that as anything less than a personal attack, and ZFR evidently saw it that way.

As an extension of my comments made regarding your lack of respect for other players and the way you play: on the whole, I don't find your playstyle valuable to the Town at all, and given that people put weeks or even months into these games, I think that's quite unfair on others. Even when you're Town, your play is so scummy that it creates unnecessary distraction in determing who the scum are, and makes you virtually impossible to trust. That might benefit you when you're Scum ("it's just flub being flub"), but your inscrutability is a liability to your team when you're Town.

With regards to my own reaction to your comments at and about me in-game, your prior conduct made it impossible to tell whether aggressive behaviour and sarcastic barbs directed towards me in the thread were in-game strategy or just a continuation of personal belligerence across several months. Faced with that, I felt it best to drop out of the game for my own sake as well as everyone else's.

Let's have the PMs I sent to ZFR about your behaviour: I'd mentioned that my flatmate had been hospitalised (she's doing great now if anyone was wondering), and I was reading posts on my way to and from the hospital to see her. I didn't need shit like that added on top, especially not from a game. (For reference, see my "games are supposed to be fun" comments in #55. I'm not going to bother finding those, but they are very much a response to something that was supposed to be an outlet for stress instead adding to it.)

The upshot of all this is that I don't like your behaviour, and I don't trust you to act honourably and in the spirit of the game.

Basing a vig shot off someone switching their avatar to an obvious Mafia reference is a sucker's bet. If that was a major factor in Town's loss, then Town deserved the loss.

Speaking as one of the primary instigators of the avatar switching, and quite possibly the biggest instigator, this had absolutely nothing to do with the extended avatar copying trend.

I rather think you've missed the point. The fact that something was communicated during the night phase between two Town players who had no game abilities allowing this was frankly unacceptable.

Heh.

I just wanted to say that the mass avatar copying started after I fake-signed up Bookwyrm. He copied my avatar; I copied his in return and we just started from there. It wasn't related to anything flub did.

EDIT: Sorry, I see Bookwyrm already mentioned this.