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General discussion[Forum game] Forum Mafia - Administration and general discussion(8541 posts)(8541 posts)
(8541 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted July 30, 2018
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ZFR: I'm available August-September.
I'll co mod (for ZFR or anyone else who needs it), I'm sure I can find the time for that.
Posted July 30, 2018
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bler144: As a side note, trying to address part of what Poppy is speaking to, I suggested way back (ironically it was Drealmer's first game) that one way to address onboarding new players is to bend the rules against talking outside of game and give them a neutral buddy outside the game that can help translate basic game concepts and strategies, and helping them filter through pages of personal noise, while also potentially moving some of that noise outside the game thread.
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Bookwyrm627: That's actually not a bad idea. I seem to recall seeing one site or another where that was basically what they did for newbies; there would be a newbie game, and each newbie would have something of an advisor figure.

We have enough people around that kind of follow the game, but don't have to time to actually play, that acquiring these background mentors might not be an issue. Set up a QT for each pair, mentor can't comment in the game thread, and see how that works out.

snippy
I would see this as being a mod / co-mod responsibility to some extent. If a player asks you / tells you the context to something is not clear I can see a mod in all fairness either posting links to sources or encouraging the player to ask in game for same. Fundamentally whoever said something obscure is either lying and knows they can be caught by research, or is telling the truth and may just not have the time themselves to prove it.

The individual mentor / tutor idea however also seems fine, just not sure we have enough ppl to do it. For example although I'd be happy to help ZFR out, I only really started lurking "late" and any contexnt between Vitek, Joe, SirPrim, Ele and Flub is totes lost on me as well.

Ah... QT would not work for me though. I forgot I need to VPN into it, and I just can't be arsed to VPN from work, or really from wherever. Too much marginal hassle when I already feel conflicted about the time engagement. Come to think of it, this means I shouldn't be playing at all... if I rand Maf I might screw the team hugely... :( Shit... I was thinking of jumping in for the next one. :( Ok whatever, if it happens it happens and I can lone wolf like the best of them... hehehehe

PS: I would expect the same mentor could handle several newbies.
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elebutterfly: Can I be added to the host list too? I would specifically like to run this Open setup I found on the MafiaScum wiki that looks hilarious, for 12 players.

I won't have time for this until September though.

Edit: GoGfather needs to make a queue..! Joe also claimed a mod spot on the last page.

Edit edit: this game will also have compulsive lynching (i.e. plurality vote at deadline as well as majority) 'cos I want to see how that works with the D1 culture on GoG. >:)
There used to be a queue, it just got shorter and shorter recently. I'm sure it will come back. Maybe you can post a placeholder one to help? I confess I haven't tracked volunteers...
Post edited July 30, 2018 by Brasas
Posted July 30, 2018
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SirPrimalform: Ah yes. I too had opinions on these that I didn't express because I was in the game.

I sort of agree with A in that I think it should be discouraged, but ultimately it's unenforceable as, unlike posts, there's no mark to show something has been edited. I agree that it's a good rule to have, but we mostly have to rely on peoples' honour since there's no simple way to catch someone doing it. But yes, a rule against it would prevent people from looking for meaning there, which seems sensible to me.

B on the other hand I disagree with as an actual rule. I see where it's coming from, and there were certainly lots of references to games I wasn't around for and thus didn't get. I just don't think it would be fair to make it a rule.
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PoppyAppletree: I'm kinda backing away from B. I've no personal fondness for excessive metagaming, but I don't see myself being able to enforce a restriction against it.

I'm sticking to my guns on A though. I found the back and forth between you and ZFR really funny, but it added an unmoderateable side chat into the game, especially when those titles were referenced in the body of in-game posts. Those messages weren't in full view for everyone to see, as in some cases they changed before everyone would have seen them. Regardless of whether they actually had any bearing on the game, their ability to affect it made it unfair on others. Additionally, as mentioned in the #53 thread flub's avatar stuff had a substantial impact on the game in play. I don't know if flub intended it from the start, but his avatar rapidly turned into a scum falseclaim which generated a very large amount of discussion. That tied my hands in acting, because I couldn't take back an element that was already inserted into the game. When he later changed his avatar to a Cylon toaster during the night phase, when communication was prohibited, it resulted in Joe vigging him. The overall impact of that was in my view unacceptable. Regardless of whether it's made a global rule, I would prohibit breadcrumbing/softclaims and any type of game communication using avatars and forum titles in future.
Good. I saw MU went that way or tried to. I don't think this is enforceable and would only lead to abuses.
Overall I think mods should be more oriented towards ensuring the players are positively engaged.

The avatars and titles... less sure. Easier to enforce at least, but I think the beef I'd have with it is the impermanence. In a way it's like editing posts. You could have all sorts of untraceable and later invisible communication that way where only a few players would be "in the loop". I mean, I felt the temptation to kick someone under the table while in Resistance, or wink at someone in particular. But even that is more open and liable to be caught IMO than somethign like this. YEah, I guess after writing it down I;d support it being an actual rule that it should NOT be done.

Edit: should not be done while IN game. Before randing the role go nuts...
Post edited July 30, 2018 by Brasas
Posted July 30, 2018
Sure, sure:

PLACEHOLDER HOSTING QUEUE (updated 30th July, 13:23 GMT+1)
#interest post -- person (gametype) - start

1. #4398 -- Vitek (???) - ???
2. #4439 -- Joe (???) - ASAP?
3. #4454 -- ZFR & CoMod TBC (???) - August/September
4. #4460 -- zeo (nonTrad) - ???
5. #4461 -- ele (open setup) - September

Co-moderation:
1. #4458 -- Bookwyrm
2. #4462 -- adaliabooks

Edit to add this is an UNOFFICIAL queue list for summary purposes only. Please refer to post 2 of this thread for the real queue!
Post edited July 30, 2018 by elebutterfly
Posted July 30, 2018
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bler144: snip

As someone who's not going to be a regular player either way, and could see the appeal of either style, I don't have a strong opinion, I just think we'd have to be clear that that's what collectively people wanted to pursue. And my sense is that's not the case, and people who want that (yogs, cristi) have tended to drift off to play on other sites where that is more the scene.
I think people that want meta out of the game are the exact people that should just develop meta-building skills and win games that way. It just becomes another lever for them to pull. :)


-----------------------------------------------------

From the game thread, pulling it here
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_reboot_battlestar_goglactica/post1548

This is not Hijack... It's Bler in the linked game thread... leaving it like this bcos lazy.

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HijacK: I swear I'm going to stop thinking about the game, but I think with what you're going for here as your core mechanic, rather than futzing with roles to try and balance a mechanic that's incredibly hard to balance, I think the biggest thing would be to just make it an open-setup rather than closed.

That reduces the amount of noise for town, and reducing/eliminating safe fake-claims for maf helps balance and brings the game back more towards actual play and less away from setup/PR/flavour guesswork.

I mean, town ultimately did read correctly D1, we're just gun-shy about killing any PR day1 because we're so used to screwy setups. Then add Vitek's flip and cristi's claim and we were way off down the rabbit hole. Well, certainly I was.
+1000

I loved the flavor and setup uncertainty of many games here. That's what pulled me in eventually. However GOG is almost addicted to that? Breaking it up with more open or semi-open setups would IMO help bring new players in and provide a different sort of experience - less "burnouty". I don't think it's a coincidence that non traditional Mafia like Resitance or Secret Hitler managed to "stick" while the trad games were going through a very long participation rut.

So let's embrace the power of AND and mix it up I say.

I will say though, that the downside with open games is they can be less engaging and become more mechanically locked. One aspect that the non trad mods may forget is that although you don't have time limits for the phases, maybe you should, because in person the social pressure to move on is huge. But in writing... pfff...
Post edited July 30, 2018 by Brasas
Posted July 30, 2018
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Brasas: Ah... QT would not work for me though. I forgot I need to VPN into it, and I just can't be arsed to VPN from work, or really from wherever. Too much marginal hassle when I already feel conflicted about the time engagement. Come to think of it, this means I shouldn't be playing at all... if I rand Maf I might screw the team hugely... :( Shit... I was thinking of jumping in for the next one. :( Ok whatever, if it happens it happens and I can lone wolf like the best of them... hehehehe

PS: I would expect the same mentor could handle several newbies.
Interesting, is there any reason you can't use QT?
I only ask I was got banned at one point (mid game where I was scum, the cult one if I remember right) because my IP had been wrongly associated with spamming or something.
But I emailed the quicktopic support and they fixed it and unbanned me, so something similar might work for you.
Posted July 30, 2018
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Brasas: Ah... QT would not work for me though. I forgot I need to VPN into it, and I just can't be arsed to VPN from work, or really from wherever. Too much marginal hassle when I already feel conflicted about the time engagement. Come to think of it, this means I shouldn't be playing at all... if I rand Maf I might screw the team hugely... :( Shit... I was thinking of jumping in for the next one. :( Ok whatever, if it happens it happens and I can lone wolf like the best of them... hehehehe

PS: I would expect the same mentor could handle several newbies.
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adaliabooks: Interesting, is there any reason you can't use QT?
I only ask I was got banned at one point (mid game where I was scum, the cult one if I remember right) because my IP had been wrongly associated with spamming or something.
But I emailed the quicktopic support and they fixed it and unbanned me, so something similar might work for you.
Something like that. So how exactly do you contact them? Through the VPN?
Posted July 30, 2018
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Brasas: Something like that. So how exactly do you contact them? Through the VPN?
If I remember rightly I could still access it on my phone using it's data because it was a different IP and I just contacted support using the contact link at the bottom of the page.
Presumably if you did the same via VPN and told them your normal IP they should be able to sort it out.
I could still read QTs (and open and post in my own), just not post, when banned, so if you can't even open the website it might be something different, but worth contacting them anyway.
Posted July 30, 2018
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Brasas: Something like that. So how exactly do you contact them? Through the VPN?
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adaliabooks: If I remember rightly I could still access it on my phone using it's data because it was a different IP and I just contacted support using the contact link at the bottom of the page.
Presumably if you did the same via VPN and told them your normal IP they should be able to sort it out.
I could still read QTs (and open and post in my own), just not post, when banned, so if you can't even open the website it might be something different, but worth contacting them anyway.
Yeah it flatout gives me a 403 Forbidden on any QT link, also homepage. And not just at home, also from work.
Still, ok... I'll try to reach them. Thanks for the encouragement mate.

It's just I never like Support mail chains. And I especially get triggered about about getting banned from online places - if that's what is is ofc.
Posted July 30, 2018
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Brasas: Yeah it flatout gives me a 403 Forbidden on any QT link, also homepage. And not just at home, also from work.
Still, ok... I'll try to reach them. Thanks for the encouragement mate.

It's just I never like Support mail chains. And I especially get triggered about about getting banned from online places - if that's what is is ofc.
It's odd that you can't access it from work as well.
Support were fairly helpful (it was only one or two emails and not tons of back and forth) so they might be able to sort out your issue too, if it can be sorted out.

A quick Google search shows a few results for places like Thailand which seem to censor QT, but assuming you are in Poland I've never heard of any censoring they do.
Posted July 30, 2018
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elebutterfly: 2. #4454 -- ZFR & CoMod TBC (???) - August/September
Semi-open setup for me. C9++ with a twist if I can get that many players, and if comod confirms twist won't cause blancing issues.
Post edited July 30, 2018 by ZFR
Posted July 30, 2018
It is good thing I am so forgettable.
Posted July 30, 2018
How does semi-open set-up work? You give a list of possible power roles but don't say which are included?


The set up that I'd like to do the most (currently - though I do keep changing my mind) has PoppyAppletree and SirPrimalform as a target audience... if they can't play the game if I start now maybe I could bump my slot down one?

It's not that no-one except Pat and Spaff would enjoy it! But they're the only ones I know for sure who are fans.

If we need a game starting immediately I can use a different set-up and try and hold on to my enthusiasm for this one. Actually my others are good too, should I just make a sign up board right now?
Posted July 30, 2018
Current GOGFather would like to announce to you that he doesn't give a shit about new rules.
He doesn't intend to enforce them in any way.
Then GOGFather is also making himself to have more power than he has or ever had.
It was account made only to manage this thread so more people than OP can edit admin posts. It was never intended to enforce rules. Those very few we had were just some things we mutually agreed on to prevent things that could damage integrity of the game. It was supposed to be something people just respect and is not enforced by force.
I don't see any of these things to fall in this category.

Over time we were forced to take part in more serious problems in the community and I apologize to people I dragged into GOGFathering. They expected only to handle admin things like sending notifications and updating OP when I am not around and instead they had to bother themselves with various problems.

But now we are not interested in this anymore. We don't feel the need to police over things we don't even care much anymore.
So if will of the people wants it then enforce all rules you want. We are more than willing to give up GOGFather account and pass it onto anyone who wants it to establish any kind of "community" they want.
GOGFather account is here only to collect things people as group want so it is only logical GOGFather should be made from those people and it is not right now.
Posted July 30, 2018
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Vitek: It is good thing I am so forgettable.
Vitek wanted to host a game!
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion[Forum game] Forum Mafia - Administration and general discussion(8541 posts)(8541 posts)
(8541 posts)