Also Joe was right: scum would have been able to use a power on one target and kill another target in this game. But we never got to use that power. Our plan was to use that, if one of us has to bits the other, to 'prove' that the remaining one can't have committed the kill. :-)

I was right that the point of this dizzy setup was basically Trent saying "THE MECHANICS WON'T HELP YOU, IDJITS!" (post 164 in observer thread)

trent pls confirm

@Lift and RW, while we're asking questions:

How did you use my playstyle against me so well?

Joe mentioned a few posts back that I'm looking to improve my next game. Well, I am obvs, but I wonder how to.

ZFR to the rescue!


Anything you want to say to me? Praise, oaths of loyalty, flattering avatars, that sort of thing...

Oh boy, Do I... I'm already typing.

What's funny is I saw you as generally Townie. I don't know what others were seeing some of the time, especially Day 1. My reads about Town v Town, were pretty much what I was reading (if I didn't know better). Later on it didn't help that your analysis missed some things (like jail vs roleblock or the reasons why Dedo was mostly cleared). I'd say a lot of it was we were both getting cleared by enough people and your Vanilla role claim while true, always makes someone look a bit scummy as its such an easy claim to make.

First of all, thanks for hosting trent.
Congrats Lift and RW; excellent job. Except for killing me on N1, but since you were on an opposing team I guess killing the Cop N1 counts as an excellent job too.

trent's flavour told me that RW killed me so I knew he was scum.

Just a quick clarification on why I thought Lift wasn't scum (knowing that RW is scum) as I wrote in the discussion thread. It's these:

written close to one another. This was at a time when I was wondering if I was killed due to my "breadcrumbing". I thought the scum team wouldn't write the exact same thing, especially if they did find the breadcrumbs. Weak reason, I know.

That's also why I knew that Joe, Pooka (or anyone else for that matter except RW) couldn't be a vanilla mafia goon. If that was the case, it would mean that RW could kill me and rolecop same night, and while I was accepting the fact that a lone mafia could do it, allowing him to do it despite having a vanilla good partner was too bastardy; and RW wouldn't just claim rolecop and guess that Joe was one. Later I realized that it would have also been possible if RW-Joe were both vanilla scum partners, in which case the rolecop claim would have been less risky (since his partner can corraborate) and arguably less bad.

Now Joe,


Third N1 in a row. That's three games in a row where my game ended after RVS D1.

Thanks for repeatedly blaming me for voting GR. Did you even follow the game which you hosted? Where a whole day was wasted because everyone was discussing only whether GR who was a mason, a vouched for mason!, was scum. Don't you think that if GR lived this game then having acted as suspiciously as he did we'd have wasted another day on him too? I stand by my vote and think that it prevented a horrible mess on D2 instead of causing one, but maybe we should just agree to disagree on this.

But this...

"usually" joins? rather later into the game?

https://quicktopic.com/52/H/eBcS5a9Mga87 I know GOG doesn't keep proper timestamps, but this around the same time you did, if not earlier.

Do you realize this is the first game we're playing together where we can post competing bragging rights since... very long? Yet in your absence I kept the tradition alive and posted my picks, whether in thread or by PM to mod to avoid misunderstandings, Every. Single. Game. And yet what do you write? "I'm sure my buddy ZFR posted his bragging rights somewhere. I can't wait to find out what they were."? Instead you write "usually" and "no in the true spirit". Thank. You. Very. Much.

Incidentally, maybe you can count how many of the bragging rights this game were correct?

Basically what you can improve is: be thorough. If you analyse something try to also include things that contradict your current point if view. It's difficult, but if you miss things repeatedly, scum can paint that as agenda on your part and point out, that you are biased.

I know that you already try to be thorough, taking a lot of time reading. But there is still room for improvement. One trick is, to challenge yourself. Read what you write from a different point if view. Try to imagine how you would analyse yourself if you were someone else.

@trent: thank you very much, for running this game. Great flavour and a very fun game. But it was a bit biased against town, I think. With a second killing role from D2 on and a double-action scum, they were in quite a difficult position.

True, neither of those two problems had any effect. We killed Death before he got his killing ability and we other scum never got to the point where we got the double-action. So in the end the balance didn't influence the outcome as much as I would have expected had I seen the setup before.

All in all: good job! It was an exciting game!

I think it was ZFR and Dedo's reactions, maybe someone else as well. As I said, initially I was just trying to get a reaction out of RedFire (can't remember what the logic behind that was now) but then I got the impression there was a reaction against Lift being voted - it wasn't just that it was a vote with no reason, but that it was a vote for LIFT with no reason that people were reacting to - that's the impression I got whether it was right or no.

And, as I say, I'm a contrary bastard. If people don't want me doing something that's probably what I'll do :)

Wait - what I mean to say is "I worked out from your behaviour that you were scum," That was it.

Shame we didn't get you, eh? What an interesting game that would have been.


oh nooooo. I'm an idiot :( Sorry buddy :|


That does NOT mean we should make a habit of lynching GameRager early every game! If we're going to do that we may as well just ban him from mafia.
What it means is we should accept the fact that "saying a lot of nonsense" is just not one of GameRager's scumtells.
Ah well, maybe we'll just have to agree to agree with me.


Augh!!


AUGH


AUGHH!!
I just saw what the guardian Angel does.


Trent thanks for the game it was great and oh so painful.

If you and RW had chosen a different NK target night 1 or if Town had lynched RW after he was jailed and no kill happened I think Town would have won the game. Also, as much as it seems it was weighted against Town it really wasn’t if Town would have focused on what people were doing and saying instead of the setup of the game. It’s often the case that people focus too much on setup or roles and lose sight of the actual gameplay. Town had all the tools to win, but just got unlucky in who y’all chose to NK night 1.

No. No no. That's not what I meant.
I wasn't for particularly for lynching GR throughout the day (though I was willing to if no better candidates came forward). Because yes I agree his behaviour was NAI. Until post 294. The encouraging someone to lie was something new he introduced and meant that he was going to be a problem D2 (or he could be scum).

Look at my post 298. "(a) GR started behaving suspiciously again, and". Up till that point I didn't particularly want to lynch GR based on his general behaviour, but his previous post is what caused it.

My approach of going in with accusations and guns blazing was controversial and had a split going for it, but I didn't think that as much as it would make it easier for scum to slip, they can also step up their game. This gave us Day 3 (4?) where you just couldn't tell what was going on.

Interestingly enough, I accused dedo of "stealing homework" from Lift, when I should have accused Lift himself for that (I think I did raise that point but was getting burnt out with this game to pursue why Lift's actions felt terribly convenient, so didn't chase it further).

But yes, vanilla claims makes it much worse for townies, but what am I gonna do? Lie? I'm not Mafia. Am I?

The last time I put in things that contradicted my ideas, was when bookwyrm was going "oh no I don't like this post at all." Granted I was doing it as Mafia, but I think it did make me worse off. I think my biggest problem is that
1) I assume you all know what I am thinking (can't remember what it is exactly but some people took a post of mine to imply something in this game, not sure if it was related to scumteam size...I think it was. Ah, yes, that I implied RFG wasn't going to flip scum. At this point in time I never intended to imply that but it came out this way because I assumed you all would assume the "RFG is not scum" hypothetical as one if, rather than certainty.)
2) my tone is off
3) related to 2), I land on the right ideas but never deliver them well. I was very happy about my finding of RW being scum, but I never acknowledged that he was JAILED not ROLEBLOCKED and therefore wasn't able to say "but be careful, there is a slight chance he was protected and not acting." If I had delivered it this way, maybe things would've been different, but ultimately I've made a fool out of myself and dropped the idea.
4) I never look back at my posts. I am not lying when I say I spend an hour writing posts, which means that when I am finished with the post, I really want to drop it and be done and get back to whatever it was. I get an idea, build on top of that idea, then drop it. I only send out the Day 1 patch after I hear players complain...so 4) is essentially "I'm a typical AAA game company." Shameful.

Meanwhile, you two were devious. I've had RW as Towny as Hell, and Lift felt Town for "real" this time...except of course you're Lift, you'll always manage to be Townier than the Town themselves, even if you're a threat to them.

From scum chat:
"That way we don't have to worry about mistakenly using the same words and reading from the same script."

And I cleared Lift from being scum only because he used same words as RW which I thought no scum would do... ha ha.