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General discussionForum Mafia #63 Supernatural(876 posts)(876 posts)
(876 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 06, 2019
I'm back. Sorry, I had a very, very busy day. A full-claim of everyone is sensible at this point. If we do have two scum, this might be our last chance to find scum. So no point in continuing to protect any still un-revealed PRs. I'm fine with Pooka going first, since he seems to want to. But I'm also fine with going first myself, if others prefer that.
Posted December 06, 2019
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PookaMustard: I prefer I go first.
Lift doesn't mind so, whenever you're ready.
Posted December 06, 2019
I feel like waiting for Joe and RW to put their inputs on the matter, but off with it.

I'm a vanilla Town. I have no abilities other than my vote, and I don't have any modifiers. In addition, I haven't heard about anyone visiting me during any of the last three Nights.
Posted December 06, 2019
Grand.

Lift? Then RW?
Posted December 06, 2019
I'm going to a family dinner and will be back in a couple of hours.
Posted December 06, 2019
OK. I'm next. I'm a limited Roleblocker. That's why I had the balancing-theory early, that Town had several blocking or protective roles. However, I seem to be very inefficient at what I do. I was told that I have a limitation, but not what it is. But I think I have figured out, what my limitation is.

N1 - I targeted RFG. When reviewing D1, I had the impression that he knew more than he was letting on and that there was something off. I had Joe as likely scum, but he had exposed himself so much during D1, that I felt quite sure that he wouldn't be the one to perform the NK. My theory, if he was scum, was that he was trying to pull investigative roles towards him. (Godfather, or some such). That would have been a reason for his shenanigans. However, I was blocked/jailed. I couldn't leave my room. We know now why. RFG was Ascetic.
N2 - I targeted Joe. I still had him as possible scum and he wasn't as attention-seeking anymore. However, I failed again. This time I was told, that I reconsidered and stayed in my room, because Joe wasn't interesting enough (paraphrasing here). ... That was the first hint on what my limitation is and Pooka just confirmed it.
N3 - I targeted Pooka. I didn't see a point in trying to block Joe again and Pooka was one of the remaining unknowns/unreadables. It was really flip of a coin between him and RW. But I got the same result.

Now, one possibility is, that I don't have any PR at all. But that would be direct bastard play. I don't think trent would do that, even though the setup is closed. But I did some research on MafiaWiki and found the modifier 'Complex' - and that would fit amazingly well. It says, a complex role can only target players with a PR. On Vanilla/Goons the action will fail.

RFG had a role - but he was Ascetic, so I was blocked.
Joe was vanilla, so I dropped my night-action because he wasn't interesting enough
Same result for Pooka - and now Pooka confirms that he is Vanilla.

So, I still have hope that I can block players who actually have a PR. ... And I hope that players who have spent all their actions don't count as Vanilla, otherwise I'm pretty much useless by now.
Posted December 06, 2019
Ah heck...at least we have claims to analyze...
I Watched Dedo...no one visited. I was sure we had to have something else and was surprised no one, not even Agent visited. I was hoping someone was going to claim they visited him.
Posted December 06, 2019
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RWarehall: I Watched Dedo...no one visited. I was sure we had to have something else and was surprised no one, not even Agent visited. I was hoping someone was going to claim they visited him.
If your claim is true, that is indeed strange. I would have expected Agent to protect dedo. ... Too bad we can't ask Agent for his reasoning anymore.


I don't know what to take away from the claims. There seems to be no tell-tale discrepancy. Then again RW did warn scum not to tell anything that isn't true (Post 700). ... Was that an accident? Or was he warning a scum-buddy to stick to the truth?

Another thing, not related to the claims, that I noted in the few posts since Daystart is, that Pooka seems to be awfully eager to throw shade or, in other words, to find stuff in posts that aren't there.

Examples:
Post 687 - here he tries to twist Joe's interest in RW into a statement that he knows that RW had more than a single shot.

Post 699 - Pooka attempts to read RW's "We might be at LyLo" as knowledge gained from a night-action. When actually we have been discussing the fact that we might be at LyLo before. Even yesterday we discussed that we might be at LyLo today. ... Pooka is really exerting himself to find anything that he can push at. Is he desperate Town? Or just Scum throwing stuff around to see whether anything will stick and be picked up by other players?

And this:
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PookaMustard: Hi Agent. How does it feel being dead?
reads a bit callous. Is it just a simple joke? Or is it overconfident scum, gloating over a successful nightkill.

...yes, I know. I'm stretching as well. That comment was probably no scum-tell. But still, mocking the dead is no nice trait.


But I have one serious question to Pooka:
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PookaMustard: I prefer I go first.
Why? I was OK with you going first since I really didn't care who goes first. But why did you want to go first? Was this a LAMIST attempt, demonstrating that you didn't want to tailor your claim to those of the others? Or did you have some Town-reason for wanting to go first?
Posted December 06, 2019
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Lifthrasil: Another thing, not related to the claims, that I noted in the few posts since Daystart is, that Pooka seems to be awfully eager to throw shade or, in other words, to find stuff in posts that aren't there.
I'm at a point where I can't find definite scumtells in any of you four, and with the relatively few posts Today, I have to admit that I would read too much into the posts to figure out what's really going on. And with there being no counterclaims, I have a feeling we're too late in getting the scum to slip. But before I get to the rest of the post:

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Lifthrasil: And this:
reads a bit callous. Is it just a simple joke? Or is it overconfident scum, gloating over a successful nightkill.

...yes, I know. I'm stretching as well. That comment was probably no scum-tell. But still, mocking the dead is no nice trait.
No. I was merely making a simple joke, following up on how Agent used his bah post. Even if I was scum, I wouldn't be this foolish to gloat over the person I'd just killed, directly in his face at that.

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Lifthrasil: Post 699 - Pooka attempts to read RW's "We might be at LyLo" as knowledge gained from a night-action. When actually we have been discussing the fact that we might be at LyLo before. Even yesterday we discussed that we might be at LyLo today. ... Pooka is really exerting himself to find anything that he can push at. Is he desperate Town? Or just Scum throwing stuff around to see whether anything will stick and be picked up by other players?
RW's reiteration of the LyLo thing struck me as "huh, he probably learned something that supports this theory." Combined with his earlier refusal to fullclaim, I had no reason not to question why he is saying that now, perhaps it is coming from knowledge he gained? And the thing with Joe was basically what I said above: no definite scumtells means I need to question the stuff being said.

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Lifthrasil: But I have one serious question to Pooka:
Why? I was OK with you going first since I really didn't care who goes first. But why did you want to go first? Was this a LAMIST attempt, demonstrating that you didn't want to tailor your claim to those of the others? Or did you have some Town-reason for wanting to go first?
I had the feeling one of the scum would tailor their claims to make me into a liar and get me conveniently lynched. Despite my reluctance of mass claiming for RW's info, I decided to go first, knowing that I'm a vanilla who can't have done anything, to see who would jump on me. This is in addition to the previous game where I got criticized for disregarding the importance of claim order.
Posted December 06, 2019
I'm back. Let me catch up/
Posted December 06, 2019
Maybe this didn't work as well as I thought it might.

What I was trying to avoid was getting lynched and lose the game for us in what some have described as a HSL move. I felt that even if I caught someone in a lie, they were going to turn it on me if I came out of the blue with it. As it is, it feels like Geraldo must have felt opening Al Capone's vault. I thought we'd get more meaning out of it.
Posted December 06, 2019
Right.

I was hoping for something else but it was kind of a longshot anyway.

When I said we should do full claims I meant everyone including myself. When I claimed first I wasn't entirely truthful (Lift, don't hate me!). I wasn't 1-shot but 2-shot Town Jailkeeper (I think I may have called it Jailer by mistake at some point but it is in fact Jailkeeper). Everything else I said was true. I was about reveal that in the first post for Today, but then I realized there might be a slight chance to catch one of two players into a lie so I held off. Unfortunately the thing I was hoping for didn't happen, oh well.

I used up my last shot (this time for real, now I'm pure vanilla) on Pooka. I assumed Agent might try and protect me again and the scum would either try to kill me and get him instead or just go after him directly. I'm not allowed to jail myself and the only other person that I had as most likely Town was Agent and jailing him would defeat his purpose (and it might kill me in the process which is also not ideal). Protecting didn't matter anymore so I tried to stop the killer. Initially I considered jailing RW again but it was pretty obvious he has more powers (my guess was the same as Joe's - Jack-of-all-trades) so I was hoping for him to have a useful night action. Same for Lift. I believe it's clear why I chose Pooka instead of Joe.

The results:

- The kill still happened so I know Pooka can't be a lone Kitsune just like how RW can't be. Either of them can still be in a team with anyone.

- Pooka didn't mention getting jailed and I'm pretty sure he would have tried to throw it back at me if he was able to detect it so I believe he really didn't try to leave his room.

- He didn't report getting jailed which means Vanillas don't get notified about it. That confirms RW trying to leave his room on N2, but doesn't tell us what he really try to do.
Posted December 06, 2019
I have some more thoughts based on all we have so far but I'll keep them for tomorrow as I'm a bit tipsy and would like to think about it more before making something out of nothing.
Posted December 07, 2019
Huh. So I've been jailed AND roleblocked but have not gotten any results about it. Do I only get those if I was doing an action or was a PR?

Interestingly enough, both dedo and Lift acted on RFG N1, and both also acted on me N3. I don't know how to feel about the two blocking roles getting the same ideas on the same nights.

N3:
- dedo jailed Pooka
- Lift blocked Pooka
- RW watched dedo with no results
- Joe did nothing

If we take all these claims at face value, then Joe carried out the kill (from my own perspective), but I have my reservations. I feel that one of the three PRs have done a clever job at hiding their scummy intentions and successfully directed the mechanical suspicion toward me or Joe.

I'm beginning to suspect dedo, actually. He only claimed he jailed me after Lift claimed he blocked me, seeing that I got nothing to say about who visited me last Night. In addition to that, unlike RW who technically didn't lie about his full claim, dedo actually did lie about his role.

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dedoporno: When I said we should do full claims I meant everyone including myself. When I claimed first I wasn't entirely truthful (Lift, don't hate me!). I wasn't 1-shot but 2-shot Town Jailkeeper
His original claim:
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dedoporno: I'm one shot Town Jailkeeper.
By the tenant of Lynch All Liars, he'd have my vote, but now, at potentially LyLo, is not the time for rash voting decisions. And when I think about it, it's not RW who claimed last, it was dedo.

Now whether dedo is scummy or not, I have the feeling we're dealing with a lone scum. Yes, I know I said one sentence ago that it's potentially LyLo, but something is off if there's a scumteam and not a lone wolf. I don't know how to describe it, but I feel that him being a lone wolf is why we're having trouble finding him. Of course that's wishful thinking so I wouldn't want to go blind into it, but it's the vibe I'm getting from the scum's movements.
Posted December 07, 2019
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PookaMustard: I'm beginning to suspect dedo, actually. He only claimed he jailed me after Lift claimed he blocked me, seeing that I got nothing to say about who visited me last Night. In addition to that, unlike RW who technically didn't lie about his full claim, dedo actually did lie about his role.
Honestly? You do realize I have nothing to win by coming out like that if I'm scum, right? There was near zero suspicion against me and, as you said, I was the last to claim. There was literally zero risk for me at this point to just keep quiet about it and none would have been able to tell I was anything other than what said originally. Especially when some of the claimed actions are more or less overlapping but I did anyway since we can use all the information available to us. If you weren't suspecting me until now nothing of this should make you reconsider your stance.

As for LAL, you should know that it's an OK principle to follow in general but not fanatically and without putting some thought into it. Lying has its merits as Town, it just didn't work out that well this time.

More tomorrow.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionForum Mafia #63 Supernatural(876 posts)(876 posts)
(876 posts)