If you're scum and you messing with me I won't forget it!

lolololol

do you remember which game it was where you were convinced town-lift was scum? I'd like to have a look at it.

Oopsie daisy

Should be within the last 5-10 games. Can't remember which one was it but I'm pretty sure it was HSL who did it and it's likely it was the last game he took part in. Maybe someone can piece these clues together and figure out the game number.

I'm not and I'm not. How would I sleep if I lied to you? All that shame and all that danger...

I'm certainly not saying "No way"...I'm saying that with other available targets I don't believe scum would usually make that choice. It's tricky, it depends in part on who is the scum team, if there is only 1 or 2. I also haven't played with Joe before that I recall. That said, I wouldn't make that choice if I were scum in Joe's shoes. It's not as if I was viewed so strongly as Town. There's always WIFOM, and Pooka didn't take much heat at all when ZFR died, so *maybe* there was hope for the same...I just think it's less likely than likely.

As to Lift, I don't like his sudden vote hopping, my gut is telling me he's a little off this game. Then he pulls out some good analysis which makes him look a little more Towny. It's possible I'm overanalyzing, like I did last game with Agent where I Vigged him over a connection I thought I saw but it wasn't real. I don't know, just know that Lift is hard to read.

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As an aside with all this talk of 1 vs 2 scum...just an idle thought but for sake of balance a single Kitsune might also be given a 1-shot bulletproof so they can't kill each other without targeting each other twice, Is that where the 2nd kill went? Is that why we only see a Kitsune kill? But I'm not counting on it.

I started with Blotunga. Going only by his posts so far, I find in unlikely that he is in a team with Pooka. The latter was nearly lynched on D1 and Blotunga was an early entry on that wagon. If it was distancing it was quite risky and extremely lucky in the end. The only reason I'm not entirely discarding this possibility is that Blotunga kind of disappeared for a long time just before the wagon really took off so he might not have had the chance to back off but still, leaving a hanging vote on your buddy who's been one of the main focuses of the day like that... Real risky. Then later on he continues to have him towards the bottom of the list. Again, highly unlikely team.

Even though blotunga said he might vote for Lift at one point I find it a lot more likely in comparison with Pooka that they might be a team (I'm not saying that it necessarily reads like that, I'm saying there aren't hints and clues to make it improbable).

Moving on.

I do consider them possible and I listed them as such. But blotunga is mostly scummy by absence, while you had your active scummy moments. Maybe you are right and maybe I am OMGUSing too much. Maybe I mistake conflict for scumminess. That has happened in the past. I am aware that I sometimes equate someone writing something that I know to be wrong with that someone lying. Rationally I know that's BS, because you can't know that your theories are wrong if you are Town. ... But the feeling remains that there is something off about you. Additionally we will be at LYLO tomorrow if we mislynch. So it feels wrong to lynch someone just as a test at this point. That means we have to reduce our targets to a few, based on some assumptions. Otherwise anyone is lynchable - and we have to make a decision. Examples of those decisions on an assumption that I'm making are the assumptions: 'dedo is Town' and 'Agent's Angel-claim was true'. Yes, both assumptions can be false, but we have to decide which way to go at some point, so I try to make the best call I can.

I don't see anything that convinces me blotunga is Town. But I also don't see anything that says that he's Scum. However, if you make a good case on him, I might even follow you. Convince me that you are Town.

Oh, by the way, one point where you are wrong about me so that it felt to me as if you were pretending was the 'would Joe lynch ZFR' question. Yes, I am actually convinced that you are prudent enough that you would lynch ZFR in N1 if you think that that is the best course of action for your faction. Not for the sole reason to claim that you would never do that, of course. There surely were other factors to ZFR's death. We discussed this after his kill. He had not much connected to him to analyze. So maybe you selected him because he was a minimal-information target. The 'I would never have killed ZFR' may have been just a bonus. ... I DON'T believe that you would never kill ZFR in N1 and you pretending that you would never have performed that kill made you look scummy in a LAMIST way.

Same your 'I am smarter than Scum' spiel. No, you didn't offend me with that. You wouldn't even have offended me with that if I were Scum. It just looks like another LAMIST to me. "Look at me, I am teasing those Scum! Therefore I can't be Scum myself!" ... It's an act.


@dedo: about my being mis-lynched in a past game you might be right that it was HSL's last game. HSL always had a knack of making me look scummy and skillfully twisting what I wrote. No matter which faction I was playing for.

I don't see blotunga and Joe being together. Also Joe is already spoken for.

Blotunga and RW is a possibility. If I have to compare I'd say it's more probable than Blotunga + Lift.

Moving on.

Why am I putting in all the effort to convince myself that you're town, and now I've got to convince you that I'm town too? That hardly seems fair.

but would I have thought it was the best course of action for my faction?

Whereas everybody else had all those connections at the end of Day one that would have provided a wealth of information for town, huh?

It's not that I would never kill ZFR Night One - but that I wouldn't have killed him Night One when he was killed Night One the previous game. He sat around twiddling his thumbs for all the last game and he deserved a chance to play again. It might occur to me to kill him because it would be really funny to spend a game arguing 'how dare you kill ZFR you scum!' and then at the end of the game say 'it was meee!!' but I think I'd have as much fun imagining doing that as I would doing it so I probably wouldn't do it.

Again, you're arguing that it's CONCIEVABLE that I killed ZFR. You don't want to discout the possibility. But if I'm scum then it's not just a case of 'I may have done it' it would be that I definitely did it.
So.
Do you think that I did it? In these circumstances?

(imagine if someone comes out with a redirector claim now...)


hang on a tick. Let's have a look at that spiel... (to be concluded)

Maybe I just object to it being called a spiel, when it's simply me being witty and frankly hilarious whilst also making the good point that, while everybody in the game can be said to share the reason 'ZFR's amateur bungling of the end of Day One is ripe for exploiting for mislynch' it's proven that I'd actually considered that, whereas others may not have.
Now we all know in reality that that doesn't mean I'm more intelligent than the scum. That's just incidental.

So the LAMIST in the statement shouldn't be the extremely amusing witty banter, but the logical argument as to why everybody should Look At Me; Joe! I'm Not Scum!


The second statement I quoted here is more provocative, but it's in response to your question and I'm hoping it can be read with a not-entirely-serious tone.

Are not-entirely-serious statements about how great I am alignment indicative for me?


Anyway, you asked me to make a case against blotunga for you. Here it is:
It's not dedo (unanimous unchallenged group decision)
It's not Carr (uncountered flavour claim)
It's not Joe (wouldn't have killed ZFR, generally doing a great job with the rest of it)
It's not RW (might not have role-copped Joe as scum. Having rolecopped Joe, wouldn't have gone hell-for-leather trying to get Joe lynched Day 2. Having gone hell-for-leather to get Joe lynched Day 2 wouldn't have town-read him Day 3)
It's not Pooka (Pooka can't be on a team with Lifthrasil - or what was Day 1 about. Pooka can't be on a team with blotunga - professor Dedo says so)
So that leaves you and blotunga.

If it's not you, then I must be wrong about one of my other reads. If I'm wrong about RW, that opens up the possibilty of a RW, blotunga team, or a RW, Pooka team.

uhhhhhm... convinced yet?

I still have people to go through and it's taking so long, already 2AM here so I'm going to stop for now.

Something I keep forgetting about (and seemingly others, too) - the first day lynch. GR was in this game, he was Town and a nearly done lynch was abandoned for the sake of his. I believe it's likely there was at least one Kitsune on that wagon. That wagon consisted of:

RWarehall, ZFR, dedo, Pooka, JoeSapphire, RFG

ZFR and RFG were not it. I know I'm not. That leaves RW, Pooka and Joe.'

Then we had RFG's wagon. Technically we did scum but for all intents and purposes that was a mislynch as far as the Kitsune are considered. So, again it's very likely there is at least one on that wagon which was:

Agent, Pooka, JoeSapphire, blotunga, Lift

The intersection between these is Pooka and Joe. Pooka made it look like he's not paired with Joe as he is currently voting him along with almost enough others but that may be plain old bussing. Still, I kind of doubt both scum would end up on both mislynches in the first two days. It's not impossible but wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. So for the time being I'll put that aside.

On the other hand it's a lot more possible at least one of them is scum.

More highly improbably teams:

Lift and Pooka (Lift took part in Pooka's almost lynch on D1 AFTER Pooka refused to claim and put him at L-1, I could have easily hammered that)
Agent and Pooka (Agent also took part in Pooka's almost lynch on D1 and at no point backed off)

This calls for more backtracking but I'm starting to consider RW + Pooka (I don't have current recollection of their interactions but after elimination some options Pooka mostly makes sense to be scum along with RW) or RW + blotunga.

There is probably more such clues to look at but I'm knackered and logging off now. If someone would like to try and build on this (or show me where I made a mistake), please do. I'll get back to it tomorrow.

My flavour has indicated that I don't need sleep, so I simply watch and guard people.

That's a good plan. I gotta remember to do that when next I'm Scum.

That's a reasonable line of thinking. I don't agree with your choice of Joe, but the reasoning is good.

Unvote RWarehall

Since, as has been pointed out, it's nearly impossible for RW to be lone scum, looking for the partner first is wise.

I keep being surprised that it's only Day 3.

I still believe RW is most likely to be scum, but I think his partner is one of Lift, blotunga, or Pooka. My gut says blotunga, as he's been the quietest of the three. I think Pooka is the least likely, as he's had a fair number of strong Town moments. I'm on the fence about Lift.

I wouldn't be certain that there was scum on the wagon, other than RedFire -
- Everybody on that wagon is also everybody who was around at the time, (GameRager was also there but he doesn't count) Lift, blotunga and Carr wcouldn't have been on the wagon if they wanted to, on account of not being present (or they were present and chose to avoid speaking, which scummy enough in itself, but pretty much unprovable.)
- GameRager's play is so problematic it's not inconceivable that there were 5 town on his wagon (one of whom, I shouldn't really mention but will do so anyway, had the forsight to guess that ZFR wasn't scum and only joined the wagon to avoid no-lynch - it was me! I'm very clever)

But that said, I won't fall off my chair if it turns out RW and Pooka are the scums.

Because we had only a kitsune kill in N1. So if RFG targeted a bulletproof scum, likely that was the reason. We have no reason to believe that the SK was just idly sitting by.

For the rest of accusations against me, while I had my absent moments, I do try to follow the game the best as I can. A lot was posted about possible teams, I will go through them a bit later.