That was the plan all along. I wanted to wait to about mid-week so we get some reactions from players and still have time to try and do something useful with the information. I was mostly waiting for you at this point (and I'm glad I did). To be honest I could have waited maybe a day more to get something else from RW but I doubt there will be more than what he already said so let's get to it.


I jailed RW.


I picked him as I have hard time reading him, he has fooled me in the past and generally plays with his hand close to his chest. Also Pooka listed him as his Towniest choice which bothered me on two different levels - scum Pooka might have set up Town RW for a NK counting on the displayed support during the day as a WIFOM alibi - "Why would I kill the guy I named as the Towniest instead of trying to get him on my team even more" or something along those lines. On the other hand (this seems less likely as it's a bit be too obvious but also WIFOM) - scum Pooka Town-reading his scum buddy the most so they can claim that is too obvious to do and gain distance in the process while leaving a record of support so they don't have to vote each other.

On the protection side of things, if RW is indeed Town he's a valuable asset. He would also be a good target for scum as he isn't in a direct clash with anyone so wouldn't result in that much clues about his killers.

That's it. Going to the gym now, I'll be back later to answer any questions and go over what came up in the last couple of days.

What are your conclusions?

Why would mafia target RWarehall:

- Toward the top of several people's 'town' list.
- Fixated on Joe, so his lynch might reflect badly on Joe (or stall interest in Joe's lynch)

Who would target RW?

- Joe
- Somebody trying to make Joe look bad (lifthrasil?)
- Somebody who thought he was unlynchable (?)

Is RW blocked scum or protected town?
- could be either or neither.

Status Report: COMPLETE


unless anybody wants to add anything?

Interesting reveal. It was a good choice of target, I think, especially the Pooka dynamic is something to think about. You explained the 'if Pooka is scum' side quite well, dedo. But if Pooka and RW are both Town, Pooka may also have unwittingly directed Scum at RW. Scum may have agreed with Pooka (and Joe?), that RW is towny enough to be unlynchable. Which makes for a logical target. If someone is too town to lynch, you either have to book him by buddying or you have to kill him, as scum.

However, there is also the RW is scum possibility. Right now, merely by focus and mechanics, RW looks more likely scum than others. After all there is two possibilities: you protected him or you prevented him from performing the kill. To gauge that, we will need more visibility from RW.

@RW: time to come out of your shell. Did you notice being jailed? As discussed previously, even a Vanilla may notice being jailed in a trent game. So you don't have to do a full claim, strictly speaking, but I think the more information you provide at this point, the better for the evaluation of the situation. I know this might look like fishing, of which I accused blotunga myself, but at this point you're exposed to interest anyhow.

@Joe: by the way, I disagree that RW was unlynchable. He didn't look particularly towny to me nor particularly scummy. He very skillfully remained unreadable. That means he still is a valid scum candidate in my eyes. It's just that others always looked more interesting or more scummy or off or at least more enganged in discussion and as subject of discussion (Pooka, you, me, blotunga). But I do wonder whether RW's unreadability is intentional, skillful scum play or if it's just his play-style to play close to the chest.

@all: do you remember how RW played in the past games?

Not like Jailer and not only 'could be'. Role Cop is more often scum aligned than not. While Jailer is classically aligned with Town. So that role claim does not exactly make you look more towny. But would a scum, knowing that the role will be seen as likely scum-aligned, claim such a role? That is, of course, WIFOM.

Independent of alignment, I tend to believe your read on him. (I mean, why would you lie about it?) But still I want to wait what Joe has to say to that.

True but I wouldn't say anyone was really unlynchable at that point. If RW and Pooka are Town and RW was indeed the target I'd be more inclined to think that someone might have opted for him to cause some confusion and potentially point to Pooka while at it. Possibly hoping that I would go after it since I have been giving Pooka the stink eye for pretty much the whole game and am looking for an excuse to do so.
IF both are Town, that is (also me :)). A whole lot of WIFOM.

One of the reasons why.

With the risk of offending him I remember only three things - one particular game where he came in as a stand-in for someone who backed out of the game, fooled everyone (he was scum) and we lost; he's probably the person who got in fights with others the most (at least in my experience) and in some cases stormed out after getting angry at others and calling them names.

Other than that I know that I have hard time reading him so I'd say that he does a good job keeping low profile.


Well, that proves RW is not powerless as the flavor matches and I don't believe I gave details on what I did (bolted his door shut at the start of the night and unlocked it in the morning).

Joe is up to confirm his lack of role, now that the cat is supposedly out of the bag.


I'm going to play a bit of devil's advocate here and say that I've seen both Mafia Jailkeepers and Town Role Cops.

To add to dedo's last point above, I've been a Town Roleblocker myself, despite the role being "usually aligned with scum."

As for why I listed RW as my towniest read, to put to it in dedo's own words, I see him as a valuable asset to Town, someone who's been keeping tabs on the game probably far better than most of us and asking the questions. There are moments when he falters (his reason for voting RFG was eyebrow raising) but generally he is scumhunting. If he acts scummy I wouldn't hesitate to call him out and vote him.

Now there is the matter of the degree that RWarehall and ZFR are related. If we assume RW is Town and was targeted, what did the scum find in RW that they did in ZFR? For the latter, I think it's to make me or Lift look bad. But as Lift notes, RW is at a point where he is seen as too town and wouldn't be a lynch any time soon. The only thing I can think of is that RW's lynch would reflect badly on Joe, but I can't come to terms with that. Why RW instead of say, dedo, who if night killed would reflect terribly on me? I feel like RW wasn't the best choice of lynch...unless he figured out something about the mafia?

On the other hand, if RW is scum...reading the game and keeping tabs on it could've been why ZFR was killed. He would then focus on Joe, while briefly voting RFG. I know two paragraphs earlier I called it a falter, but after briefly looking at some posts of his, I'm beginning to wonder if RW's scumbuddy was actually RFG and the RFG vote was basically a Day version of him saying "stop drawing attention you idjit." Would also explain the lack of nightkills in spite of two killing factions.

Huh. That poses an interesting question: what else would a Townie (in general) have? You say you're a 1-shot role cop and got your result on Joe, so you should be effectively no better than a vanilla now, but then you say that. Interesting.

What else indeed...
Maybe I only had a single 1-shot to use and I'm trying to draw a night kill...
Maybe I have more and am trying to lure scum in tonight for some reason...
Maybe it's a trap!
Or maybe I'm spinning the fear it's a trap as a reason to avoid killing me tonight because I have nothing using the power of WIFOM.

Whatever I may or may not have left doesn't help Town since you will all find out when I eventually flip, so revealing whether I do or don't only helps scum and their choice of targeting.

Also, interesting theory Pooka...RFG is my SK scumbuddy now? (brain explodes)
So how does that work? The SK is the one who does all the killing? What does the Kitsune do? I mean...what happened to RFGs kill? Since it would obviously have to be me doing that kill right? And how again do I know Joe has no role?

I could into the debate of why RFG would be called a SK at all if he were actually part of a scum team, but I don't think that is necessary.

On mobile, so frog pretty quotes.

Touché

Scum / votable

:thumbsup;:

@Joe - His claim makes sense with what I know and think I know. ...Also, RW has confirmed being blocked.

@Joe - Do you have a role?

Unvote blotunga

Vote RWarehall

I think this is our best lead. I haven't read him as Town, so I'm liking the chances that he's Scum.

Not much voting going on vote count

Being Voted ------------------------------------------------Voted by
RWarehall---------------------------------------------------Agent (Post 519)

Closest to lynch is RWarehall at L-3

Vote Agent

Sure it's OMGUS, but he chose to place a vote ignoring every reason to the contrary. Looks like scum trying to capitalize on a failed NK attempt. Can't even wait until Joe responds, right?

And let me explain this in simpler terms...
Think about it...assuming we have 2 scum left, how does it usually work?
One might have powers and you have a goon who pretty much always does the kills unless the one with powers has a Strongman.

If you think my role cop ability makes me scum, but I didn't kill Night 1, who did? If I had a Strongman, jailing wouldn't have stopped the kill. So why don't we have a kill today?

Did "my partner" target me and get stopped by the jail? How does that work?
The only other option is that the 2nd scum got blocked somewhere else.

This same logic applies to Dedo and his jailor power. If you believe he can be scum, then he's not the one doing kills, his partner is. Why would his partner target me if Dedo is already jailing me? (Not even getting into the issue whether it makes sense for Dedo to come out of the gate like he did if he were scum)

There really are two options:
1) I'm Town and got targeted by scum and it bounced because I was jailed or...
2) The killer got blocked somewhere else which means I could be either Town or Scum.

Anything else is being rather short-sighted. But there are a couple people who seem to be rather opportunistic and seem to want to quickly discard the idea there was no kill because I was the target. Why is that?

I wish RWarehall would've come out earlier with the fact that he was jailed. Nonetheless it is plausible that he was scum's NK target as he was in the least murky waters together with dedo.
Would scum!pooka target RWarehall while in public praising him as most towny? Hell yes he would.
Also agent's jump on RWarehall, while not technically wrong, might not be the best solution. Lynching him would of course reveal the truth about RW, but if he flips town we still wouldn't know who targeted him.

What are your conclusions?

Hey RW, could you answer this ^ ?

And also -

Why did you choose to target me?


RW's right. I'm Vanilla Town (which might explain some things about the way I've played the game so far - the only other game I've been vanilla town in since #53 was Lift's salem game where I turned up late and got lunched immediately for weird behaviour)

So with hypothetically-scum-RW knowing that I'm Vanilla Town, would he fixate on me day 2 the way he did? It seems unlikely doesn't it...

Let's have the answer to the above questions RW please.