The fox can change his coat but not his habbits. I meant it about me. I can't play differently than in other games because that's how I am.

Thursday Vote Count

Being Voted ------------------------------------------------Voted by
RedFireGaming---------------------------------------------Agent (Post 349)
JoeSapphire-------------------------------------------------RW (Post 395), Lift (Post 400), blotunga (Post 407)
agentcarr----------------------------------------------------RedFireGaming(Post 406), JoeSapphire (Post 409)

Closest to lynch is JoeSapphire at L-2

Day will end in about a day and a half or so.

Yes! I totally see your problem I've apologised for it several times already - I didn't explain myself clearly because I wasn't really thinking about it, that's all it is. It's not manipulative it's just dumb.

No it isn't. Lifthrasil's posts were quite close together (26 posts - the first is timestamped the 8th Nov, the second 9th Nov, I had made only three very short posts in this space of time). I'm not comparing a post today with Lifthrasil's first post of the game, but a quick change of mind in reaction to a vote I made on him.

"Your playful and at times nonsensical game-start is just very much you."

26 posts later:

"Joe is inconsistent. Accusing others of being scum without voting for either and then voting for me without making a case against me. Even after being asked to explain his vote he didn't. Even for Joe this seems off and were out of RVS, so the time for joke-votes is over."


AGAIN I WILL AFFIRM - I'm not standing by this argument. At the moment I just think it was OMJBUS. I'm not saying it was a particularly strong argument - I don't think it is. The only reason I referenced it at all was a contradiction for Lift claiming that I-don't-seem-to-care-whether-the-person-I'm-voting-for-is-town-or-scum (post 149 "Because yes, you don't seem to be interested in hitting scum, but just in lynching anyone. Otherwise you would be making an actual case with the little we have.")

I don't think I said "much quieter" - I don't think I am quieter as scum. But I think in the past I've been more focused - knowing who the scum are and hunting for power role hints is a much clearer job than trying to work out who's on a team and wants to murder everybody else.

I've been scum twice in the past ten or so games - one of them was rather unique and I don't think can be used as comparison (I was a third-party traitorous member of the scum team with a secret third-party ally and I had to lie to town AND to scum and it was intense and messy and I spent the whole game panicking)

Here's the other It was a little while ago and I'm in a different kind of place to then, but take a look it might be interesting.

Here's the first game too, why not?

I probably would be trying to change what got me caught last time as I was scum. If I was scum. But I'm not.

Pooka and Blotunga I've played a few games with - I've hosted games with Carr, but maybe only played one? RedFire was in the last game I hosted but he's not played with me before. - I was wondering why Pooka didn't respond to your 'parlour tricks' question, as in the secret hitler game we just played I was definitely having fun with prodding and provoking but he has responded now.

I read that as 'an hour and a half or so' and nearly fell of my chair.

Wtf is OMJBUS?
@Joe let's say we give you the benefit of doubt, innocent until proven guilty, yadda yadda, do you still think carr as the most likely scum?
Why not lift or rfg?

Even if I am repeating myself, I'll explain it once more: the difference is in the intent I read. Just like with Pooka, of course, tone is difficult to read. But for me there is a difference between fooling around and casting a serious sounding vote. "Hey, you're always scum so you must be scum now" is clear nonsense and I read something like that as 'tongue in cheek'. But a vote outside of RVS means business - and that's where, in my memory, you used to do a better job of explaining why you see someone as scummy when you cast your votes.

But then again, you later explained it as wanting to stir up things a bit and I can understand that reason. On D1 stirring things up a bit is necessary.

Now that is interesting, if it's true. It's the opposite for me. I usually feel much more relaxed when I am scum and feel more focused when I am Town. Because I have to focus to try to look through this mess. As scum, I know who my enemies are, so I can afford to play around a bit. Maybe that's why I keep reading you as scum in spite of knowing that you sometimes play nonsensical. You just feel less focused than usual - and for me that would be a scum-tell. Maybe it's a Town-tell for you, that I am misreading? I'll have to find the time to read your other games and compare. But then again, you pointed out your previous meta yourself. And you admitted yourself that, as scum, you would try to change the tells that you are aware of. So you pointing out previous games and explaining your own meta basically means that we can't trust your meta anymore, because you are too aware of it.


Something different: the point has been raised that those players who had the chance to hammer Pooka but didn't are likely Town. I disagree. Even if Pooka is Town, scum would have hesitated to hammer him. Pooka wasn't an universally accepted target and when he was the leading train, we still had some time to go. So hammering him would have looked bad. Scum knows that and would have avoided hammering him. Things were different with GR. Everyone had voiced a certain degree of mistrust for him and the deadline was close. So offing GR was easy without getting scum-points for that.

About today's lynch: for now, my vote stays on Joe. I still think he feels off and he is the least bad target we have. Agent's replies to my questions made sense and Pooka played quite towny today. I could be convinced to switch to RFG. Yes, his end-of-day voting shenanigans weren't intentional. I believe that. I think they were an honest mistake - but that's a mistake that's easier to make if you don't really care where your vote goes. Which would be a tell for scum (or an absent-minded townie).
Although one thing just strikes me: if RFG is scum and we assume that he didn't care whether his last vote was on Joe or me, that would make Joe Town. If Joe were his scumbuddy, he would have remembered whether he was voting him or not! So I find it unlikely that Joe+RFG are a scum-team.

Yes. Yes it is. ... Hmm. Should I switch to RFG after all? Is there still time to build up an alternative wagon? Out of the three current wagons, Joe and Red are the ones I feel comfortable with. Between these two it is really 'flip of the coin' at the moment. I have put a bit of pressure on agent today, but now I would put him in the 'lynch only if it's necessary to avoid a no-lynch' pile with RW and blotunga. I would not want to lynch Pooka or dedo today.

@all: if you would restrict your choices to Joe and RFG, who of the two is more likely scum? What do you think?

OK, nearly day end and the game has slowed down to a crawl. I better reinvigorate it in some way. TIME FOR A READS LIST!

- RWarehall: one of the best reads I got so far, seems most likely Town. Few posts but the majority of them packed with actual content and not filler.
My next entry is going to raise some eyebrows. Please bear with me.
- Lift: despite my Day 1 issues with him, he has never stopped questioning everything going on in the game, and his Day 2 a strong one giving him a lot of Town points. Him being suspected of softclaiming to avoid lynch (when he hasn't) also gave him slight town points and was ultimately the point when I thought he isn't that likely to be scum.
- Agent is the weakest Town read I got due to a weak Day 1, but Day 2 he's a lot more pronounced and formed reads on the players by actually reading post by post and picking apart the good and the bad, in spite of his botched, rushed posts.

The rest are unfortunately neutrals.
- dedo does make some good points, but I hesitate to think of him as a Town read. In our last game as scum, he did give off a Town vibe that wasn't picked up by most players except Bookwyrm IIRC. In this game, he posts with the same frequency and plays more or less the same. Not willing to lynch today though.
- blotunga is, well, blotunga. Honestly he's unmemorable this game, and that's worrying. I would lynch him.
- For RFG, I have the worry that him backing off the softclaim thing was a realization that casting shade by saying I did something scummy didn't work, and though he clains that was not the intention and has better means to do what I think he was doing, I can't really shake off that feeling.
- Joe's parlor tricks are a double edged sword. He's probably as many people said, appearing to scumhunt without actually doing so, but on mt recall of the Secret Hitler, that very thing was precisely what got him to lose the game as a liberal. Would lynch.

Pre-post edit: @Lift I would consider lynching RFG over Joe today.

I suppose I'll go ahead and vote RedFireGaming.

That's actually a fair point. Do you remember how much time we thought we had left between Pooka being at L-1/2, the wagon change and the actual hammer/deadline? Now that I think about it Joe was reluctant to go against Pooka for the majority of the Day, if not the whole Day. Similar for RFG, if I'm not mistaken. If there was more time than I thought there was maybe it wouldn't have looked that good for either of them to switch sides for the sake of getting the lynch through so no good excuse to mislynch after all. Was it really the much time left? Did we have enough people to rely on to seal the lynch so scum would allow themselves not to get too much hands dirty? That's irritating as I was beginning to think I can give a couple of people a pass for intentionally missing an opportunity and narrow down the suspicions to whomever is left and go from there but now I'm second guessing myself about it.

I think Agent has been doing a decent job Today (a lot better than Yesterday for sure) so definitely not a primary vote candidate.

Blotunga feels like his usual self which isn't necessarily AI. I'm mostly afraid that his lynch will turn out to be yet another GR. Unlike Pooka who was really counting on hitting scum (or at least claims so) I have to admit that even though GR's flip was a bummer it wasn't really that tremendous of a surprise. I'm concerned that might end up in the same alley. But then again being scared achieves nothing so maybe. Not first pick but acceptable.

Joe and RFG are equally confusing to me at the moment. Earlier in the day I would have been pretty open for going with either of them (maybe RFG more so than Joe mostly because of the way he defended the refusal to claim but maybe I'm the one who is wrong there and that's not a good reason). Then I kind of persuaded myself scum wouldn't miss the chance to give that last nudge to a lynch that's at the tipping point and suddenly didn't really want to vote for either. And now Lift has made me question that. Not sure what to do, maybe.

RW is always hard to read for me which means he's doing a decent job which means he's pulling his weight and paying for his ticket for the time being. Wouldn't vote under the current circumstances. I see that he's Pooka's strongest Town read which is a slight concern but not enough to worry about a whole lot.

Pretty much the same for Lift with the slight difference that (as usual) most of what he says makes a lot of sense to me. I didn't see him as scum Yesterday and not much changed in that regard since, so not a good pick unless and until something meaningful occurs.

I guess Pooka isn't a popular choice so no point in voting for him but if someone feels like it - you know where to find me. @Pooka, if you're really Town I'll apologize to you after the game is over but until something serious changes my mind I'll probably keep doubting you.

No - I was thinking about this while I've been away. What's Carr's motivation to town-read me as scum? He shouldn't trust that I'll be mislynched without his help, and if my wagon falls through his is one of the next in line so he's in a dangerous position to be playing about.
(OMJBUS - Oh My Juicy Bod U Suuuuuuuuuuuk!)


really not necessary - the only reason I'm repeating it is to explain to RW that I'm not trying to decieve you all I'm just bad at explaining myself. The argument is old and was not that strong in the first place let's all just try not to mention it for the rest of the game.

RFG ;p

Can we stop saying that I'm trying-to-look-like-I'm-hunting-scum-but-not-really? It's too easy to say, not very easy to argue with, and it's not true.

hm.

I've found myself town-reading pooka pretty much throughout the game, and occasionally giving arguments in his defense and now I'm of the opinion that pooka massively sucks.

My Process-of-elimination has kind of left me only with RFG - with the uncertainty that RFG could have voted for pooka yesterDay, but instead voted for lifthrasil. I think unless pooka/rfg are a team scum RedFire would have had better reason to vote Pooka. But there's WIFOM and there could be other reasons alright I think RFG is my top pick (which isn't going to surprise anybody given that it's beginning to be presented as RFG-or-Joe, but I had been thinking to vote so before I got home.)

The only thing is Pooka parrotting the 'joe is just trying to look like scumhunting without actually doing anything sits very ill with me. I feel like he should be either trusting-me-because-I've-been-staunchly-in-his-favour-all-game, or wary-of-me-because-I've-been-staunchly-in-his-favour-all-game. Instead I just get weak arguments repeated.

Now perhaps I'm just offended rather than seeing scumtells - does this argument make sense to anyone? "Why hasn't pooka ackowledged that I've been townreading him since the beginning?" Is there merit in it?

unvote AgentCarr

I'll vote for RedFire once I've posted this just in case he got two more votes while I've been typing.

Why does somebody (who was it? remind me please) saying that lift softclaimed when he didn't town points for lift?


You have a 'town reads' list and a 'neutrals reads' list, but no 'scum reads' - and your neutral list has three you'd vote for and one you wouldn't - what's that about?


I just read Pooka's reads list and, despite the problems above which I'd like pooka to explain his thought processes on, his reads make some sort of sense.

Therefore Vote RedFireGaming

Somewhere around a day to go vote count


Being Voted ------------------------------------------------Voted by
RedFireGaming---------------------------------------------Agent (Post 349), Pooka (Post 427), JoeSapphire (Post 430)
JoeSapphire-------------------------------------------------RW (Post 395), Lift (Post 400), blotunga (Post 407)
agentcarr----------------------------------------------------RedFireGaming (Post 406)

Closest to lynch is RedFireGaming and JoeSapphire at L-2

I just woke up, Lift's thought process seems fairly ok with me and I do think that there is a higher chance for RFG to be scum than most of the others. Since there is little time left, time for showing cards.

unvote joe

vote RedFireGaming

I haven't been online in awhile, so I'm just now trying to catch up. I do see that I'm at L-1, though. I don't have any responses, really. I believe I've already layed out everything I can think of. Besides, I'm currently dealing with
Agent—POE
Joe—POE
Blotunga—Probably just joining onto the most probable lynch, I don't really know.
Pooka—Something to do with scaring me off of shading him

I'll try to think of something in the morning, maybe give some likely scum if I get lynched.

Interesting...
I'll re-read Day 2 and see.

If enough people are saying Joe plays this way regardless of alignment...more than can possibly be the scum team, it takes some fire from my case.

That said, it seems clear that a lot of activity doesn't speak to Joe's Townliness either...
But I'll read his Day 2 responses in this new light and look closer at RFG and the arguments made against him.

I need to update my Spreadsheet first, but I'll be back.