Yes, I've turned it into a real vote.
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/forum_mafia_63_supernatural/post128



Why is a self-preservation vote bad Town play? I know I'm Town so I'd vote for someone who might be scum if I'm in danger of being lynched.

No, self preservation isn't bad Town play. I'm defending myself too, after all. But if it's the only reason for a vote and that vote boils down to "I'll just throw my vote on the longest train available" it doesn't give Town anything to work with on the next Day. And this method of just joining the most convenient train without contributing anything oneself, is scummy. You know that.

Also, I am a bit disappointed in you. You don't even give any concrete reason for turning your RVS vote into a real vote. So what is it? Leftover mistrust from previous games? I know you always see me as scummy pre-emptively since I strung you along in that other game. But as we discussed with RW - past games don't influence the distribution of alignments in this game. You of all people should know that!

Yes and it was a pretty recent lynch, too. In all other instances I either won, lost because of some extraordinary rule that didn't require my actual death or was night killed (I've been night killed as scum a number of times :D).


I see. Well, sorry but no, Neither of these are supposed to depict a Town-lean. More like general open-mindedness but nothing more than that. I'm still trying to figure out where you're trying to go with your anti-Lift campaign and the details of its inception.


Really?

If I were a cynical man I might have read that as the supreme reverse-pocketing. Am I that cynical though?


I have a problem with lynching Lift for a couple of reasons. He is probably the player who I most find common ground with and seem to share a whole lot of ideas and views. Even now a lot of what he says makes sense to me. Also, in a recent game I let myself be persuaded by a crafty scum that all of this was faked and superficial, I took part in Lift's lynch only to regret my decision afterwards when he flipped Town. Once burn, twice shy is in full effect here.

On the flip-side, the first argument is a double edged sword. Exactly because I tend to resonate with his thoughts I'm not that good at reading him early days when there isn't a lot to work with.

Also, I'm getting the feeling he's getting touchy in his dialogue with Pooka and I can't remember when was the last time I've seen that.

Alternatively, I don't think GR is a great wagon in terms of information gained since, as it has been stated a few times, the way he seems to play the game (allegedly as either alignment) isn't exactly pro-Town. That gives excuses to scum to abuse a somewhat free lynch without too much to worry about afterwards. Of course, it's possible that his lynch provides a good result in terms of the flip but in wagon analysis on D2 - not so much.

That being said, if we're limited between these two I'd rather vote GR than Lift. At equal chances of one of them being scum I'd rather give Lift the benefit of the doubt since (and I mean no offense) I think he would be more useful in the long term than GR.

Pooka is a weak but existent irritation to my spidey-sense. I would say it's not enough to push for him actively but I'm open to getting persuaded (or dissuaded) by others who feel more strongly about him.

Agent's posts are thin and that annoys me. Post #150 being the most annoying. Would vote 5/7.

I'm still unsure how I read Joe so I'd keep him around at least a bit longer for further observation but I'd lynch him if he's at L-1, doesn't have a really convincing claim and we are near deadline. Also, he has a pretty mouth.

The remaining players are of no interest as of now.

Maybe. But that was long ago and others have been scum since; yet I don't gut-feel them preemptively as scum.

Also, I wouldn't want to dismiss suspicious stuff you do just because "It's just leftover mistrust".

See? Now you're saying it as if it was serious.

I'm happy with my vote, but it did grow too fast based on flimsy reasoning.

So,

Unvote Lift

Can always get back to that later.

I don't want to vote GR, for the reasons dedo mentioned above: if he's Town then wagon analysis won't do us much good.
If he's scum we can catch him later.

A few people mentioned Pooka being suspicious, but no one voted. Let me start.

Vote Pooka

I actually was doing that earlier but then the Lift/Joe thing distracted me, and I felt it's going nowhere. And GR's playing style is still too anti-town for my taste also.

unvote GameRager

I think we should take a closer look again at Lift/Joe after Pooka flips. While Lift is very experienced and I don't think he'd blunder in that way, I'd lunch him tomorrow if Pooka flips town.

vote Pooka

I just deleted this to quote only the next bit, then undeleted it because something struck me - here you're talking only about the times you've been scum, is that right?

It's not whether you intended to depict a town-lean or not. In fact it's rather more interesting that you didn't intend to.

Does anyone else get what I mean with these posts? About dedo assuming my honesty. Am I reading more into it than I should?

Well here's the other thing, he's been no-newbie-any-more longer than any of us, but he's never played a game differently. If he doesn't learn how the game works between his second and third games, why should he between his ninth and tenth game?
(GameRager, if I'm out of order, put me right)

My dreams of single-handedly-orchestrating-lift's-lynch-and-him-flipping-scum seem to be extinguished already.


what do you mean by blunder?
Are you saying you don't currently think lift has blundered, but if pooka's town it would look more like he might have?

Yes. Lift was the first to state that RVS is over and draw attention to pooka and then the conflict with you. If he's scum, he's very bold imho or has blundered.

Scumhunting?

Well if it's indistinguishable from scumhunting then why is it a blunder?

No, I'm talking about all the games of forum mafia I've played (I don't play elsewhere, only here with you, guys). The only time I was lynched I was indeed scum (Cult leader, to be precise). I've lost a bunch of games as scum where I was either night-killed or vanquished from the game in some way but not lynched.

I'm starting to think I don't get what you mean. Maybe you can explain a bit more so we can get to the bottom of it.

@Others, feel free to respond to Joe's question and look into it further, if you feel like it.

You've never lost a game as town?

I lost a few games as Town. What does that have to do with not getting lynched in the process?

"maybe this is the time you get it right" implies that dedo's taking my guess at face value, as in he doesn't acknowledge that if I'm mafia the guess is going to be deception.

"because of Joe's little gamble", as opposed to 'because Joe's voting for lift" for example, similarly implies that dedo's taking my honesty for granted.

It's by no means concrete. But it makes my mind prickle.

It just wasn't on the list of outcomes you gave: "I either won, lost because of some extraordinary rule that didn't require my actual death or was night killed"

You were lynched in my Papers Please (Arstotzkan Boot camp) #55. And on D1.