Unless Mchack is lying, there really isn't much speculation to be done. Looking at the player list, any/all of us could figure it out pretty simply. I expect that most of us already have, especially the cyborgs.

If we don't name names, then we're dancing around the elephant in the room, much like the last days of the all scum game. Everyone knows the secret, but no one is actually saying it. The difference here is that town gains significantly from being open, since people can start defending their cases without trying to avoid saying the open secret.

Alternatively, everyone could just stick a knife in my face before I say anything, if they want to keep playing "in the dark". This cloak and dagger crap was already old for me on Day 1.

I'm off to bed now. You've got at least 8 hours to lynch me before I have a chance to open my mouth, and possibly 10-12.

Alternatively alternatively, convince me town is better served by not just naming the masons and getting on with the discussion of who to lynch.

fair enough. I really don't want to mislynch today (which is why I went off leonard).

this. so much this.
ok. I said last game I should have listened to you when I tunneled on some town while you suspected the real scum D1 already. So I'll believe your gut feeling is right for now and leave off adalia. Who do you think is scum?

unvote adaliabooks

----

why not dance around the elephant in the room? the masons know each other. Town can be sure I won't vote for any mason. The only one that can gain from this is scum.

vote bookwyrm

Vote Bookwyrm

While I can to a degree see where he is coming from, I don't think putting it out in the open helps today.

And in light of today's events I think Bookwyrm is scum, so I think he wants to alert his buddies as to who he thinks the masons are before he gets lynched, just in case they haven't figured it out.

As to why I think he is scum, I was pretty convinced he was mason practically since the game started. I thought his voting game with Krypsyn was distancing between two masons and his lack of rocking the boat was him trying to make sure he survived.

Now I'm thinking the reason he wanted to survive is because he is scum.

So let's look at bookwyrm:

if we assume all of the four that "claimed" town vanilla truly are that (and each of you can look up your own pm to reassert that it is) flub, trent, leonard, adalia (though I'm not at all sure about leonard and adalia, just don't want to mislynch)
then scum has to be 3-4 in: mchack, bookwyrm, dedo, hsl, zfr, krypsyn, gogtrial. And since I do know the 3 masons in there all the others either have to be scum, or we don't have a convert and there's still a vanilla in there, too.

Of all those bookwyrm _is_ the scummiest right now.
He went away for 3 days when the discussion on flubs lynch was hottest, sitting on a RVS vote for him (#187) not joining the discussion, to not have to defend that vote until he was prodded (#487) after which he insisted on flub as lynch while still having him down as town.

in #521 he asks an interesting question that is mostly only relevant for scum to know: "Does the new convert get read access when converted, or can they not see the scum thread at all until they start a night as scum? " he later concedes HSL already asked it but he wanted to be sure what his converts get the next day exactly (#530)

in #561 he calls vanillas expendable troops that should be epended and when I said that I hope they'll get him, he said "They probably will." (#566) adding to the feeling he isn't one of them himself which means he can only be scum.
So all you "Expendable Troops": go get him!

(#687) he concedes that there is probably not going to be a lynch of me but rather than switching to HSL he tries to start a whole new wagon for sage. He hasn't said anything to bind him to HSL and simply saying he thought him town today is not enough. I know they are not masons. He was working hard to achieve a lynch yesterday but chose no-lynch over lynching HSL. I think this is a very strong indication the two of them are a team (or at least he suspected HSL of being in the other scum team and chose he rather had no-lynch than help town)

#696 he's first to post after night ended with a ready-made post listing all possibilities. And comes to the conclusion that the only scum he can see in that is me, flub or trent. (has he just before sent his nightaction in and had discussed all night what possibilities he and his scumpartner have?)

(#711) "Are all members of the relevant scum team told if a conversion is successful?" another question that mostly interests scum only. Maybe he is hunters scumbuddy after all, not knowing if the conversion was successful and hunter just nk by the other team or the conversion was unsuccesful.

(#790) he still goes after the "safe town targets" trent or flubs even insinuating they may have been scum D1 after all when questioned about it he doesn't answer. (#798)

he only comes back with #913 #914 saying he'll openly talk about who is mason now because he wants to.
If that isn't the last nail in his coffin than I don't know what is.

please do vote for him, town. I know I am and will not likely move the vote again.

I want to hear his reasoning behind this (prior to talking about actual masons) but I don't like where this is going. Actually, I don't like what's been happening in the past couple of days.

going too near to actually outing all scum? and yes I know by that it also is going near to outing all masons, If you really want to avoid that, then just vote for him now and see by the actual flip... (if not then go on and let it all play out O_o)

What exactly don't you like?
Do you doubt mchack's claim? Or have issue with the quick wagons?

Or something else entirely?

We're sheep. What do you expect??



So I guess we're not supposed to compare mason/elephant lists now huh??

you're not (if you are town.)

btw, what happened to that flubbucket?

I liked him ;) (hint we can actually lynch bookwyrm before he records his elephant list..)

If Mchack is telling the truth, then they are already in the open for anyone with half a brain to see. I've narrowed down the two "hidden" Masons to three possible players and I can't read people for squat, so I know the rest of you can figure it out too. If they deny being masons with Mchack, then we can nail Mchack to the wall for being scum and the real masons stay hidden.

So we can continue to not give names, continuing the Day 1 dance of "who's going to suggest a new wagon and reveal more about who the masons are?", or someone can stick their neck out to lay out what it means if Mchack is a mason and we can start actively sorting people into who is and is not likely to be on which team, and go from there. I think we really need to hit the cyborgs today, since they can much more easily recruit safely. The lone mutant has a bunch of bombs in their list of possible recruits.

Or you can just accept that I think a bunch of scum are in ZFR, Leonard, and you (Dedo). Based on the claim and Day 1 events, I think I know what happened last night, that Hunter was an original mutant, and there are three cyborgs. I think at least two of Mchack's lynch preferences are town, and quite possibly all three are.

I think the dance around "if (generic) I start and push a new wagon, it helps reveal the masons" is a big part of what led us to no lynch on Day 1, because none of the townies wanted to lay out reads so the masons can stay hidden, so none of the scum had to do so or make excuses for not doing so. We couldn't talk freely enough to come to a consensus.

What is this supposed to mean?


I don't think I follow this. Assuming you're town, and have narrowed it down correctly, how do the real Masons stay hidden if they come out to deny being Masons with mchack?

And what if they neither deny nor confirm mchack? What does your plan clear up, and how does it help with hitting scum, and especially the Cyborg team you say we really need to hit Today?


Given that you acknowledge your shortcoming, how confident are you about your list? Or is it (more) the result of PoE? Which in turn is based on what, how you read other people?



I don't quite follow why you framed your question this way. Assuming the hidden Masons remain hidden, how will it help Town if he is a real Mason with two other non-mchack Mason buddies?

And I too want to hear the answer to adaliabooks question to you regarding your post #922 comment.



Has it occurred to you that his question may be part of his fishing expedition?


You may want to check your voting status, if your intent really is to place a counting vote on him.

I was just about to mention that:

Unofficial Vote Count

flubbucket - 0 Votes (ZFR 705/787; Krypsyn 739/834)

Bookwyrm627 - 1 Votes (trentonlf 776/855; flubbucket 777/819; mchack 782/823; mchack 918)

trentonlf - 0 Votes (Bookwyrm627 708; adaliabooks 717/723)

dedoporno - 0 Votes

adaliabooks - 2 Votes (flubbucket 712/777; mchack 714/782; mchack 823/873; flubbucket 827; Leonard03 891; mchack 894/918)

Krypsyn - 0 Votes

ZFR - 0 Votes

Leonard03 - 2 Votes (adaliabooks 723/748; ZFR 787/835; trentonlf 855/884; dedoporno 856; ZFR 858/897; mchack 873/894; adaliabooks 874)

mchack - 0 Votes (Bookwyrm627 696/708; adaliabooks 748/824; Leonard03 803/890)

Sage103082|gogtrial34987 - 0 Votes (Leonard03 781/803|)

HypersomniacLive - 0 Votes (trentonlf 702/776; Krypsyn 834/883)

Not Voting - 6 abstentions (gogtrial34987; HypersomniacLive; Krypsyn; trentonlf; ZFR; Bookwyrm627)

Well, the official vote count directly behind the inofficial might be moot, but I'll be away for some hours. So to make it official:

*******************************************
Official Vote Count

Bookwyrm 1 - mchack 918
adalia 2 - flubb 872, Leonard 891
Leonard 2 - dedo 856, adalia 874

Not voting: Bookwyrm, trent, krypsyn, ZFR, gogtrial, HSL
*******************************************