mchack and Leonard, just to make sure I'm on the same page since I'm not sure what's even going on anymore - you don't believe each other but you are calling a truce and not voting each other? Is that correct or am I getting this wrong?

I can't tell about the others but I wanted to see what that "I don't believe him" was based on. The way Leonard introduced his doubt in the claim and the reluctance to finish up felt no-good, as if he was trying to discredit the claim leaving himself wiggle room in case other masons came out to support mchack, which I thought was the main goal. The subsequent "scolding" of the masons for hiding too well is even more baffling.

Also, FYI, I'll be flying on Wednesday so won't be available to post most of the day probably.

I've never had cause to find out, but I would imagine he's fairly capable of deviousness when required.

Ah! You were in that game? I probably don't remember because you replaced out. One Night Ultimate was fun, we should do that again.

I am indeed vanilla, doesn't really seem any point in concealing that fact any more. I've got a fairly strong guess as to who mchack's mason buddies are, so scum probably do too.
And despite mchack's claims of oscar winning performances, I don't think anyone suspects we are both masons together.

As for your... evidence... let's go through it.

1) I didn't know Krypsyn's actual reasons for his vote. Though they weren't that far off what I suspected. I know Krypsyns play style pretty well, and more importantly I know his view on day 1. Like me he likes it over quickly, and pushing the biggest wagon is a mighty fine way of doing that.
Secondly, he has a tendency to be NK'd day 1. That's not much fun, so by being ambiguous and a little scummy I thought he might be attempting to keep scum from being interested in him.
Thirdly, and I think this is ok to discuss as his voting for mchack suggests he's not his mason buddy, I thought Krypsyn was a mason. I had originally worried that he might hammer someone with his tactic (though he later said he never would have, which makes sense) but then I thought there is one group of players who can absolutely hammer anyone they want and know it will be safe / good for town. And that's a mason.

I stated repeatedly that lynching a mason was bad, somewhat ironic considering I almost did it. It doesn't take a genius to find that info.

Because I'm not, this is of course also a nod back to the game gogtrial just referenced too, where my self voting and suicidal tendencies were quite important. Also, I knew claiming vanilla was bad. So I wanted to leave scum uncertain as to whether they could risk a conversion on me.

Already covered most of it, though there's a whole slew more of when the masons can claim, things scum could do etc. that I'll happily share after the game.

Already covered this too. Anyone who claims mason is not going to be lynched. Unless you're running the show of course.

And there is the important point. Claiming vanilla. Being vanilla isn't a problem. Claiming it is (was anyway).

Because that's not my idea of fun.

You obviously missed the whole point of my play, and play style in general, which is to be town enough to avoid lynch but just scummy enough that you aren't in danger of NK (or in this case, conversion). Who wants the most wanted almost been lynched and likely to be lynched player on their team? Who's going to waste a shot on them?
You don't think I was vanilla because that's exactly what I wanted everyone to think. Worst case scum NK me because they thought I was a mason, that's a pretty good result for town. Best case I survive, as town, till the end of the game and hopefully help solve this.


I have a little more to say but it will have to wait till tomorrow at this point. Now that everyone seems to have checked in and at least registered mchack's claim I'm happy to expand a bit on my position from yesterday as to who to vote and not vote, but it's likely to be long and I don't have time now.

I have to say I'm finding the whole encounter and back and forth a little... staged.

And now I'm wondering if the two of them are just really brazen scum...

I can see Leonard being scum, I still don't see mchack as scum. I think mchack has tunnel vision on you for some reason, and I think he's got it wrong. Whatever happens today we need to lynch scum, a town lynch and I'm not sure we can win unless we get extremely lucky.

What I'm wondering about is this: Leonard suddenly "does some re-reads" and accuses adalia, based on some really thin evidence. Kind of makes you wonder if Leonard is not covering for his buddies (HSL? Bookwyrm?)
Or he expected that and in fact makes a really bad show of "covering for his buddies", while his buddy is actually adalia himself.
Woot. I think I met my first WIFOM.

Quite the bitch, no?

Yeah, I'm struggling to see how mchack can be anything but a mason myself, everyone has checked in and no one else has expressed any doubt or suspicion so unless the real masons are being really coy he seems to be the real Mccoy.

I don't think Leonard is cleared at all though, and it's the ease with which mchack seems to buy his sudden change of heart which concerns me....

Welcome to Mafia! ;)

It does look like he maybe thought either his buddies or the other scum team would join him and denounce mchack... or just that he could cast reasonable doubt on the claim.
But when he realised he might get lynched he suddenly backs off and throws his vote on the current easiest target with out any new evidence or support for why really.

Guys, come on. I'm standing right here.

How devious are you then? :P

Let me put it this way.
I only play a game every six months or so, my last one was in March or April according to gogtrial (and that sounds about right).
So far out of 911 posts, 132 of them are mine and god knows how many words that is, I tend to write a lot as you can probably tell.
I don't sign up to sit around and do nothing. I don't sign up to die on Day 1 (though that happens quite a bit). I sign up to play, preferably to win.

To me that means getting stuck in, being at the centre of things. That is my idea of fun.

Unvote

I've gotten to post 886, and this boop has gone full retard. I need to sort through the piecemeal mess of responses I've been putting together while reading the thread. I also need to sort through the implications that all of this has resulted in.

Mchack, if you are a mason, then you and your allies have seriously miscalculated and some people will have surprised me with how willing they were to whip it out, slap it down, and dare people to do something about it. Because DAMN.

Last call.

In the morning (for me, anyway). or when I have a chance to get to it tomorrow, I'm going to lay things out publicly and name names on the masons. If there is anything (generic) you want to say first, then I suggest not delaying.

DO NOT NAME MASONS, EVEN IS IT'S JUST SPECULATION!!!