No, it is my first one. That was a joke.

Perhaps you've played this one:

https://www.gog.com/game/mafia

Welcome to my world.

If I asked you to point out some of dedoporno's questions, would you do it, or would I get the same reply you gave me when I asked you to clarify your question-comment on ZFR?



Is conversion scum's only choice?



Pretty sure this is not his position, at least not his publicly known one.


Haven't all the players he listed said, in one way or another, that they can get behind his thought process?


Yet. It may change if needed. And leaving this bit out, is taking things out of context. So you have, and you know that you have, you just can't admit it now, as that would mean not only that your counterargument doesn't stand, but a number of the arguments you've made in support of your scum-read of adaliabooks don't either.


Doesn't matter which scum dies, it's still "a scum more than the Day before" situation, isn't it?


Are you in need of an abacus?


You're cute when you pretend not to understand what I mean. I also love how you completely ignored the first part of my comment.


Well, it's not me trying to pass that as a genuine scum-read, is it?


What do you think that I think?


That's not what I meant. Have I already said how cute you are when you pretend not to get what I mean?


Never mind. I misread something.


Except that you referred to only a specific subset of the "other people", a subset you consider dedoporno to be part of.


I'm sure they will, but that's quite besides the point of this specific questioning you.


I've never been directly warned before. I guess thanks are in order.



I can get behind this.


I can also get behind this.


There, now I'm on record.


Here you go again taking things out of context to make your counterargument. Did Bookwyrm627 ask for hypotheticals in general or did he ask about the specific two scenarios I presented? And yes, I read his post #545, this is my take.


I don't quite follow, if you're so certain that adaliabooks is scum, as you've made clear in multiple posts, what value does his answer to this line of questioning hold for you?

I will not double post again!

lol. I like it. But I won't edit it in, because then I'd be dead.
So... How exactly is tomorrow more foggy with than without flubs? I still don't understand that theory. If we let flubs live there might be 6 scum out there tomorrow if we kill flubs there might be 6 scum out there tomorrow. In both cases it might just as well be 4 or 3 or 2 also. I don't see any clear as light day coming tomorrow just because flub isn't there. Please explain.

----

He's flubs. *shrug* probably was drunk there :P

He just liked you pushing the train! It is his weird town play to have that train (he thinks it's town at least). and you helped him in that train getting traction. But when it came to L-1 he wouldn't pull the trigger (even he doesn't want to lynch flubs) and also krypsyn asked him not to (he also doesn't want to really lynch flubs - or at least he wanted to see who hammered. and didn't want flubs to do it).

So like I said I don't like flubs play, but I happen to think he is town, so I will not lynch him.
You quoting some weird joke from him, doesn't make me think otherwise. he has a lot of weird quotes like:

which could be interpreted as him finding the Idea of "playing ahead for the conversion" as horrible.

or

And yes it's in there again, that he's working on his own demise, which I find not good, but with his train he found someone, he finds scummy enough to vote (and others too) so, while I do not find the choice of player very good, I do like that he and most everyone else is voting on a player that they think is scum.

You aren't.

P.S. and I appreciate he found said player by pushing his weird train and then voting for someone on it, so that's about that for the "everyone not voting him being scum" thing. He looked for scum voting him. and why and so on. He is working to win this game for town. (in his own weird way)

I missed this completely and was pointed to it by hyper so I will answer. Why should a mason claim and run the risk of saying anything that could hurt town instead of just staying quiet and when the flip happens right after the lynch everyone would learn at the same time. No possibility of slips.

Someone claiming can cause confusion. Someone not claiming is not adding to the confusion.

You have hit upon a big issue with cult games, or any game featuring a change in alignment. Normally "win the game" coincides with "meet your current faction's win condition". In cult games, you might be playing to (personally) win by not actually playing toward your current faction's win condition.

Is it breaking the game? Eh. It does mean that playing to win might not mean playing toward your current win condition, which changes the game.

Oh, you sweet, summer child. I am going to murder you with technicalities one day.

*shrug* Adalia is saying that Flub might be playing toward a personal victory. I would find it difficult to fault someone for playing in such a way, since the stated objective of the game is "to win". Please note that I'm not saying Flub is or is not playing for a cult win. If Flub is converted, then he SHOULD be playing toward his new team's win condition from conversion forward, naturally.

Thankfully, we also play to have fun instead of trying to be really hardcore. This might also be why cult games are accepted here.

That doesn't matter, since we don't have lynches in a vacuum.

Indiscriminate slaughter for a purpose. "What good are expendable troops if you don't expend them?"

Oh, you are SO CUTE when you are naive! :D

I've been scum too. And chatted after games. And read scum threads after games. Let me assure you that your assumption is...not always accurate for every player.

Let me add a comma to clarify my meaning:
"Flub needs to die, now that you've explicitly pointed out some other possibilities,"

While he doesn't explicitly have to die right this moment, we can't leave him alive long term.

A little bit, yes. Not enough that I wouldn't consider vigging him if I had the chance, but a little bit.

I've worked my way to the front of this wagon. It sure has gotten lonely with just me and the current lynch leader on it, but I'd hate to give up my spot just in time for everyone else to Chinese Fire Drill back onto him.

That Trent wagon doesn't look half bad, though; I'm considering purchasing a time share there. Your wagon also looks rather tasty.

Like everything else in life, some people are more equal than others. Flub happens to be a little more equal in this respect, for reasons already covered.

I said that it is a trend toward an almost assumption. I judge this from the way people talk, like how you've brought up "and then two townies get converted during the night" despite the unlikelihood of that happening. No one has explicitly said it, but several arguments seem to derive support from it.

----------

I need to go, so I will address HSL's post later. I know he'll be thrilled to hear that from me. :)

I will freely admit I haven't been so entertained by a forum mafia game in quite some time.


No offense.

I will not double post again!
yeah, me too.
but right now. not so much. Been trying for hours now to work through hsls last post but it's so convoluted the stuff they accuse you of, you have to click 5 times until you see the beginning of an argument and then work your way back to see where, who said what exactly. And it's almost 4 o'clock in the morning. And Wyrm has also a huge post that needs answered.
You know what, I won't bother anymore.

@HSL I can't really answer without getting impolite. (and I don't want to, because I like you) But this post is a huge load of ...
just vote already, vote me or trent or flubs and live with the flip
and be judged by it from the townies.

@Wyrm hope these "expendable troops" get you.

We only need 7 to lynch. We are 8 town. it shouldn't be such a problem to lynch scum. But if town rather lynches town why even bother.

my scumlist right now in case I don't come back:
adalia
dedo (I'm not so sure about him anymore)
bookwyrm
hsl

Anyway, I'll go to sleep now. I need to sleep. It's less than 48 hours to deadline so I won't be prodded. Also, I wrote too much. can't go on like this. won't be on tuesday I think.
hmm. wednesday. maybe or maybe not. will only be nightkilled anyway for being a bother.
Have fun, guys/gals. I'm out.

Pretty much.

Huh, ok.

Agreed, but my votes never surprise me. True, I just assumed it was for similar reasons. He later said it was because adalia was talking too much... not really a great reason in my book.

Not exactly sure what you are getting at here to be honest.

Again, not exactly sure what you are getting at here. Maybe it's just late, or maybe I'm just a bit dense but I don't know what "record" I am, or am not, going on. Or for what.

You know it.

Well in post 317 he takes some shots at you.
Post 380 casts some shadows on trentonlf.
Post 429 uses myself as an example of someone a bunch of people might find scummy. Not too hard to read between the lines there.

I didn't say he was trying to fight his own lynch, at least not in so many words. Trying to deflect suspicion has the same net result.

Because then we'll see who's been killed off. There's a chance flub is, in which case we don't have to worry about it tomorrow. The night's going to be a giant WIFOM mess for scum.

That there is what we call "equivocation on the word 'nothing'" - I did logic toooo!


I'm seeing a couple people are interested in a trent wagon, I'm not exactly clear why though. Could you explain? Along with the others on the wagon.

Read through the rest of the thread and... don't really have much else to say. This day has pretty much run its course I think. Finishing off a lynch a taking a break will bring us back with renewed vigor. So vote adalia and let's get this show on the road!

If you have specific questions about specific posts from Dedo, please indicate them. In the meantime, I'll take this as a request for some of Dedo's posts that bothered me.

Post 223 (focus on the self-preservation and the "Why didn't you when it got your attention?").
I believe post 242 was the one that got me the most. The framing of it, and all of it taken together, bothered me.

They probably will. Wouldn't be the first time, doubt it will be the last.

For me, there is a feeling of wrong. I haven't gone back and cross-checked everything he's said with his votes and such, though; simply not enough time after I squandered my weekend on family and video games.

@bookwyrm You’re right about payoffs.

@HSL It’s the only one which leaves town wondering what the scum night action was, if they both go for nk then town will know that flub has not been recruited.

Will post more in a few hours, a bit held up because of tests right now.

Removing flub will remove one fog source that we won't have to always keep at the back of our heads from Tomorrow on. Let a couple of these stay and they will snowball before you know it dragging you down the slope of doubts and second-guessing. We let the exposed role live in the next to last cult game because he had an active power of protection and he ended up sealing the game for the cult on D3 because we turned on the person who ended up backing up the cultists without knowing it. I've tried it, it was cool but I'm not that fond of trying it a second time.

Unfortunately that's not really true as nice as it may sound. With so many people needed and so many different opinions + 4 opinions that may or may not help it's not as easy one would like. If it was most games would be Town wins and fast ones, too.

Huh?! How did that happen and when?

Like trent, right?

Here's your ticket.

Ok, so here we are 7 days and 29 pages in and we're still on day 1.

Not hard to see why a number of people just want to give up, it's only really my OCD that's keeping me reading and posting.

The four possible wagons appear to be;

Me - honestly not entirely sure what I've done that was so scummy. Talked too much, in favour of flubs lynch and maybe pushed a little hard at mchack seems to sum it up.

mchack - basically spent the entire day trying to get me lynched and his arguments are full of holes. Doesn't necessarily make him scum, I've been there and done that as town myself, but I do get a strong feeling he is scum.

trent - main suspicion seems to stem from his stated intention to vote me and then didn't, before swapping to the flub wagon which he was completely opposed to. Other flags is the whole suspecting he will be killed in the night (why? He's one of the last people I'd expect to get NK'd) and giving up (which aligns with his scum meta a little)

flub - no suspicion at all. May be scum playing a very clever game but is almost certainly vanilla town. Needs to be removed to clear any doubts over his alignment in the future.


I'm happy voting any of those other than me, and I think it's about time we all voted and tried to bring this to a close, one way or another.