It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Community
General discussionForum Mafia #52 - SHODAN's children(1308 posts)(1308 posts)
(1308 posts)
Pages:
1
10
17
18
19
20
21
30
40
50
60
70
80
88
This is my favourite topic
Posted October 20, 2017
avatar
mchack: still haven't answered the question. and your hypothetical situations also hinge on you asking "Does he?" instead of a simple yes or no. (and on HSL, flub, Leonard, whoever being incredibly stupid)
Incidentally why would you even ask "Does he?" other than fishing? O.o
The point is that talking about PRs is always bad, and Hyper knows that and definitely gets a raised eyebrow for even bringing it up. Whether it's speculating about which ones exist (not necessary in this set up anyway) or suggesting how they might behave etc. All it does is give fuel to scum to figure out who they are. And as has already been discussed that is a very bad thing. If scum happen to be able to correctly guess the three masons identities tonight they might feel confident using a convert and we may end up going into Day 2 with 5 or even 6 scum instead of four (assuming we don't manage to lynch any)

You could well be a mason (I don't believe you are, or I wouldn't have voted you) and that is the reason for your extra defensiveness (which is what Hyper was obviously hinting at) but the only thing that bringing that up does is make sure everyone is no considering the fact.
Which makes me believe that is what Hyper wanted, and there are two outcomes I can see from that;
Everyone backs off you (which makes me believe Hyper may be your buddy)
Or you get NK'd by one of the scum teams who now wonder if you might be a mason after all (in which case Hyper may well be scum but not aligned to you)

Either way Hyper comes off pretty badly from the exchange as far as I'm concerned.
Posted October 20, 2017
@lift Got a stupid question for a while now, will converts be able to start killing from same night of conversion? Been seeing people talk about n1 kills and assumed they were talking about conversions but apparently not as per several posts above about hackers being killed n1.

@dedo Count me in on that, should be able to join on Sunday I think, how much storage does it need btw? Running short on space on my toaster.

@adalia Played very few games here (compared to almost all other players) and even fewer with Kryspyn hence my statement about deferring to someone more experienced.
I think I can see what flub is doing, a rather risky move I’d say. Good luck flub ! (Pic unrelated or is it? It isn’t but is it? Nah, no chance it’s related)
Posted October 20, 2017
It's kind of what I'm trying to achieve by not discussing the topic in the first place. I dislike such discussion because they are not happening in a vacuum - it's not only myself and the other person but everyone else which carries the risk of someone else also jumping

avatar
mchack: still haven't answered the question.
I think I answered. Not sure what else you want to hear.

avatar
mchack: and your hypothetical situations also hinge on you asking "Does he?" instead of a simple yes or no. (and on HSL, flub, Leonard, whoever being incredibly stupid)
That was just an example. If we decide to go deeper in the topic, anything can pull something else out for various reasons. I don't know about people doing stupid stuff since it's out of my control. The only thing I can try to do about it is to not drive the conversation in that direction myself, unless necessary.

avatar
mchack: Incidentally why would you even ask "Does he?" other than fishing? O.o
Depends on the situation. And it was just an example who going into an unnecessary discussion can pull out something it wasn't intending to.
Posted October 20, 2017
avatar
Hunter65536: @lift Got a stupid question for a while now, will converts be able to start killing from same night of conversion? Been seeing people talk about n1 kills and assumed they were talking about conversions but apparently not as per several posts above about hackers being killed n1.
Please bold your questions in the future. And if you read the clarification I've put into the rules, the answer to your question is already there: Clarification: each scum faction gets only ONE night action and has to decide which one. (one night action per night, that is)

Now, a NK right after a conversion in the same night would be a second night action, wouldn't it?
Posted October 20, 2017
avatar
mchack: still haven't answered the question. and your hypothetical situations also hinge on you asking "Does he?" instead of a simple yes or no. (and on HSL, flub, Leonard, whoever being incredibly stupid)
Incidentally why would you even ask "Does he?" other than fishing? O.o
avatar
adaliabooks: The point is that talking about PRs is always bad, and Hyper knows that and definitely gets a raised eyebrow for even bringing it up. Whether it's speculating about which ones exist (not necessary in this set up anyway) or suggesting how they might behave etc. All it does is give fuel to scum to figure out who they are. And as has already been discussed that is a very bad thing. If scum happen to be able to correctly guess the three masons identities tonight they might feel confident using a convert and we may end up going into Day 2 with 5 or even 6 scum instead of four (assuming we don't manage to lynch any)
and yet you go on doing just that (speculating about who has which role), instead of letting dedo answer a simple yes or no question (w/o the need to speculate about anything) and explain how his hypothetical situation isn't him clearly fishing for power roles.

avatar
adaliabooks: You could well be a mason (I don't believe you are, or I wouldn't have voted you) and that is the reason for your extra defensiveness (which is what Hyper was obviously hinting at) but the only thing that bringing that up does is make sure everyone is no considering the fact.
Which makes me believe that is what Hyper wanted, and there are two outcomes I can see from that;
Everyone backs off you (which makes me believe Hyper may be your buddy)
Or you get NK'd by one of the scum teams who now wonder if you might be a mason after all (in which case Hyper may well be scum but not aligned to you)

Either way Hyper comes off pretty badly from the exchange as far as I'm concerned.
oh I don't think he does. He wasn't speculating wildly who is PR, you are. Isn't dedo's psst don't talk about power roles when asked whether he thinks a PR might also have as good a reason to get defensive as scum, pretty easy to answer without speculating about who has a PR? And yet you both did. One hypothetical the other for real.

For me it's you and dedo coming off pretty scummy, and after you painting my worm joke as a slip now comes this, I'm not at all sure your town anymore.

Isn't your incessant saying "oh I've figured this game out but pssst can't tell - it only helps scum" a clear call for recruitment? (which scum would love to be. recruited)
Posted October 20, 2017
***************************************
Official Vote Count

flubbucket 3 - Bookwyrm 187, adaliabooks 265, mchack 268
adaliabooks 3 - Leonard 169, krypsyn 171, ZFR 192
Krypsyn 2 - Sage 22, trentonlf 261

not voting: flubbucket, dedoporno, Hunter, HSL
flubb and adalia tie at L-4

If I missed something, let me know
****************************************
Posted October 20, 2017
avatar
Hunter65536: @lift Got a stupid question for a while now, will converts be able to start killing from same night of conversion? Been seeing people talk about n1 kills and assumed they were talking about conversions but apparently not as per several posts above about hackers being killed n1.
avatar
Lifthrasil: Please bold your questions in the future. And if you read the clarification I've put into the rules, the answer to your question is already there: Clarification: each scum faction gets only ONE night action and has to decide which one. (one night action per night, that is)

Now, a NK right after a conversion in the same night would be a second night action, wouldn't it?
Ah thank you, will bold it from next time. That was my understanding as well and even in description doc converts see something during the night thus making them effective after that. Just wanted to clarify it rather than assume stuff.

@dedo what did you mean by hackers winding up dead on d2 in post 267? Did you consider nk and conversion during same night or is there something else I’ve missed?
Posted October 20, 2017
avatar
dedoporno: It's kind of what I'm trying to achieve by not discussing the topic in the first place. I dislike such discussion because they are not happening in a vacuum - it's not only myself and the other person but everyone else which carries the risk of someone else also jumping

avatar
mchack: still haven't answered the question.
avatar
dedoporno: I think I answered. Not sure what else you want to hear.
hrm. let me recap:
avatar
dedoporno: [...] That's not AI on it's own of course, but it may have been the self-preservation instict kicking in to not stick out. [...]
avatar
HypersomniacLive: Does the self-pres instinct kick in only when one's scum?
avatar
dedoporno: Probably no, but it probably kicks harder when one is. [...]
avatar
HypersomniacLive: Would you say that it's still probably so even if one were a town PR?
now a simple yes or no whould have sufficed, but you went all psst, don't talk PR and then went on to do hypothetically without need.

So would you?

avatar
mchack: and your hypothetical situations also hinge on you asking "Does he?" instead of a simple yes or no. (and on HSL, flub, Leonard, whoever being incredibly stupid)
avatar
dedoporno: That was just an example. If we decide to go deeper in the topic, anything can pull something else out for various reasons. I don't know about people doing stupid stuff since it's out of my control. The only thing I can try to do about it is to not drive the conversation in that direction myself, unless necessary.
quite the fabricated example in this situation wouldn't you say? you fishing and masons coming out left and right claiming.

avatar
mchack: Incidentally why would you even ask "Does he?" other than fishing? O.o
avatar
dedoporno: Depends on the situation. And it was just an example who going into an unnecessary discussion can pull out something it wasn't intending to.
Well in this exact situation, would you in fact ask "Does he?" instead of answering the simple question? And if so how wouldn't this be fishing for PR?
Posted October 20, 2017
avatar
Hunter65536: @dedo what did you mean by hackers winding up dead on d2 in post 267? Did you consider nk and conversion during same night or is there something else I’ve missed?
I was describing the worst possible outcome where 2 hackers get outed and the two scum teams target them separately with a night kill.


avatar
mchack: So would you?
You are reiterating a question I already asnwered before. Refer to that response. Also, who is going over the same thing now?

avatar
mchack: hquite the fabricated example in this situation wouldn't you say? you fishing and masons coming out left and right claiming.
avatar
mchack: Well in this exact situation, would you in fact ask "Does he?" instead of answering the simple question? And if so how wouldn't this be fishing for PR?
I like how you're trying to paint a simple example as me finshing for PRs. That's some next level stuff, I have to admit.
Posted October 20, 2017
avatar
mchack: oh I don't think he does. He wasn't speculating wildly who is PR, you are. Isn't dedo's psst don't talk about power roles when asked whether he thinks a PR might also have as good a reason to get defensive as scum, pretty easy to answer without speculating about who has a PR? And yet you both did. One hypothetical the other for real.

For me it's you and dedo coming off pretty scummy, and after you painting my worm joke as a slip now comes this, I'm not at all sure your town anymore.

Isn't your incessant saying "oh I've figured this game out but pssst can't tell - it only helps scum" a clear call for recruitment? (which scum would love to be. recruited)
No, he wasn't wildly speculating. He very clearly suggested the reason you might be defensive was because you had a PR.
Asking the question at all could only have one purpose, to suggest that was an alternative reason for your behaviour. I've already covered why he might want to do that, and I'm leaning towards the first option.

And here it comes, you're backpedalling on your town read on me so you can legitimately vote me given the chance. Another typical scum move, you're really hitting it out of the park here.

Nope, it's not. I haven't figured anything out, to be honest I'm not sure outlining things would do all that much harm as the way I see it it is the only way this set up can play out. But as I believe you are scum and you don't seem to have seen it yet I will hold back because it may not turn out as I imagine after all.

I'm not even going to dignify that last bit with an answer, but you should certainly think more about the implications of that kind of thinking.
Posted October 20, 2017
Last off-topic, sorry!

I have created a Discord channel called GOG Mafia: Whoever wants to play Fortnite this weekend or even just hang around PM me for the link. If you like the idea of having our discord channel we could ask the GOG father to include it in the admin thread as well.
Posted October 20, 2017
So far it seems adalia, mchack, HSL and myself are mostly keeping the conversation going. I'd like to hear what's the opinion on the matter of Leonard, Sage, Flub, Krypsyn and ZFR. Or on something else that seems important or relevant. Basically anything a bit more useful.
Posted October 20, 2017
avatar
mchack: So would you?
avatar
dedoporno: You are reiterating a question I already asnwered before. Refer to that response. Also, who is going over the same thing now?
only because you haven't answered it yet! but ok, let's reiterate yet again:

the question being:
avatar
dedoporno: [...] That's not AI on it's own of course, but it may have been the self-preservation instict kicking in to not stick out. [...]
avatar
HypersomniacLive: Does the self-pres instinct kick in only when one's scum?
avatar
dedoporno: Probably no, but it probably kicks harder when one is. [...]
avatar
HypersomniacLive: Would you say that it's still probably so even if one were a town PR?
simple question really, don't wann go over it again but you said you answered already and I should refer to that response - So here's your "answers" so far:

avatar
dedoporno: I won't be discussing power roles. I suggest you don't either, unless it becomes very necessary.
-
avatar
dedoporno: They may not have an active power but they do have a power which is important to have and to keep in secret for as much as possible. I don't know about the strategies adalia is referring to, even though I do have some ideas, but either way, unless it's necessary I don't think it's a good idea to discuss them since somethinig or everything might come out in the process. Since you insist on clearing that up let's take a look at a hypothetical situation ...
-
avatar
dedoporno: I think I answered. Not sure what else you want to hear.
??? you answered by not answering. That is your answer? Is it really that hard to say whether it's yes I would (because...) or no I wouldn't (because...)? Why?



---------
---------


avatar
mchack: oh I don't think he does. He wasn't speculating wildly who is PR, you are. Isn't dedo's psst don't talk about power roles when asked whether he thinks a PR might also have as good a reason to get defensive as scum, pretty easy to answer without speculating about who has a PR? And yet you both did. One hypothetical the other for real.

For me it's you and dedo coming off pretty scummy, and after you painting my worm joke as a slip now comes this, I'm not at all sure your town anymore.

Isn't your incessant saying "oh I've figured this game out but pssst can't tell - it only helps scum" a clear call for recruitment? (which scum would love to be. recruited)
avatar
adaliabooks: No, he wasn't wildly speculating. He very clearly suggested the reason you might be defensive was because you had a PR.
Asking the question at all could only have one purpose, to suggest that was an alternative reason for your behaviour. I've already covered why he might want to do that, and I'm leaning towards the first option.
that would be:
avatar
adaliabooks: Everyone backs off you (which makes me believe Hyper may be your buddy)
And has everyone backed off after hyper asked that question? (in #240 his last post btw 15 hours ago in which he engaged 7 people by quoting and asked an 8th one questions w/o quote)

at that point I had two votes yours and trents.
trent went off to vote krypsyn in #261. Presumably because kryps hadn't answered his questions to give them more weight. But you think that was HSLs doing?
and you went off 4 posts later in #265 to go after flub for him maybe having "worked out some of the things about this game that I have too". That HSLs doing right there?

But this still makes HSL my scumbuddy? because everyone went off my back? you serious again?

avatar
adaliabooks: And here it comes, you're backpedalling on your town read on me so you can legitimately vote me given the chance. Another typical scum move, you're really hitting it out of the park here.
yes, yes. textbook scum I am. sure. Because when I had no reason to find you scummy, I didn't do (you had a few posts I found town like #50 and were generally a funny guy and only because you found me scummy on serious gut feeling, doesn't mean you have to be scum. As town you wouldn't know I'm town so I can't hold it against you really) but that changed when you painted my joke as a scum slip, which after writing it down in #254 can't really be anything but malevolent. it's not an easy mistake to make.
And it changed even more after your post #271 where you quite schizophrenicly say that talking power roles is bad and evil and then do it yourself trying to paint HSL as scum without any reason other than him asking a simple question. Ever occured to you to talk to HSL before jumping to those conclusions? You weren't even involved in that conversation at the time but dropping that bomb in the middle of a conversation I had with dedo.

It was a bit much to go on thinking you might be town and if it goes on like that, then yes you shouldn't be surprised by a vote from me.

avatar
adaliabooks: I'm not even going to dignify that last bit with an answer, but you should certainly think more about the implications of that kind of thinking.
the you asking for recruitment? it is kinda obvious, I think but I wondered, which it was mason or scum asking. now I definitly have you swinging scum.

Tell you what: Tonight should I get nightkilled, I think it's kinda obvious people should (and hopefully will) look at you. Because then they'll see my alignment in the flip and can judge our conversation again from that point of view.
Posted October 20, 2017
avatar
mchack: ??? you answered by not answering. That is your answer? Is it really that hard to say whether it's yes I would (because...) or no I wouldn't (because...)? Why?
I would or I wouldn't depending on the specific situation. In the example which was very limited and it's sole purpose was to describe the context of the point I was trying to make - no, I wouldn't. If there are additional factors that have to be taken into account and going in that direction seems like the proper course of action - yes, I would.
Posted October 20, 2017
Wait, I think I answered the wrong thing - I was under the impression we're still on "Would you ask "Does he?" blah-blah?".

As for whether I think the self-preservation instinct is stronger in a PR than in scum - generally speaking, I can't tell, since it will probably depend on who the person in question is and the how they percieve the context of the situation.

In your particular case? Based on the publically available information we are not masons together and unless we're going for Oscars we aren't scum together. Since neither of the two situations where I can tell what your motivation is and I don't want PR information exposed (unless there is no other way) I can't really respond to that question, can I?
Pages:
1
10
17
18
19
20
21
30
40
50
60
70
80
88
This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionForum Mafia #52 - SHODAN's children(1308 posts)(1308 posts)
(1308 posts)