the cut of his jib? The moon was full the night he cast shade on me?

Is my reason of casting shade not good enough? I think it is or I would not have cast my vote when I did.

Nope, but not something only scum would do either. Since as a townie, you can never be sure who scum is, but as scum you might have an agenda on who you think the most bothersome townie is, that you might want to get rid of. (of course then there's always night to do that, too. so of course, scum might concede, too.)
So of course that could indicate both, but going after someone without listening to reason at all, would be something I'd see more on the scummy side, than conceding you might be wrong, when presented with strong arguments.

oh, ok I'll try. So in the early game I liked flubs going over a few players, "feeling them up" (:P), getting responses, as seen in
#29 asking about lifts response to HSL getting mad at trent for asking for a no-lynch,
feeling up trent & dedo asking if Dedo as CL would recruit sage first, ([url=https://www.gog.com/forum/general/forum_mafia_51_the_greater_good/post71]#71 is just a RVS-vote sure but quite nicely done),
#164 is an Idea how running Tallies of the Roll Calls might help later in game (thinks it's firmly established by now that we won't learn anything from that, but at the time it made me want to code a script just for that very tallie),
& [url=https://www.gog.com/forum/general/forum_mafia_51_the_greater_good/post169]#169 he engages Lift asking if he thinks flubs is worth recruiting, which helped get more into how Lift percieved him, and let to quite a lot of posts about his play in the long run,
well and then which I still think might be a soft claim and is in the least, insofar helpful, that it created waves, as was wyrms famos post [url=https://www.gog.com/forum/general/forum_mafia_51_the_greater_good/post80]#80 which jumpstarted the game.

Well in the end there's also his vote on HSL in which he explains in [url=https://www.gog.com/forum/general/forum_mafia_51_the_greater_good/post236]#236 with HSL "creating stance free dialogue". which honestly I might even get on board to. It is really the same that trent accused dedo of, about not making waves, which HSL, I think, very masterfully does himself. But since he promised a stance after wyrm answered him, I'll wait for that before placing my vote.

how come my posts always come out with garbled links even though they look neat in the preview and do look fine when opening them on the edit window? what do I do wrong?

mchack himself isn't, Sage's spot left a worrying feeling which I was hoping to either have filled or dug even deeper. If the game just started with mchack in that spot I'd have him mostly neutral rather than scummy. That's why I'm oriented towards Lift from the two. Still, Sage's legacy is not wiped out clean as mchack may just be dusting off very good so some continuous scrutiny seems in order, but so far so good.


Who would you consider the most bothersome townie that you'd like to get rid of during the day if you were the CL?

I'm sorry. Those weren't your exact words, it's just how I read them. I thought we had already conversed about this. I am referring to

I read that, perhaps erroneously, as 'Lynch me only on Day 3, not before'. And I worded it in the way I understood it to explain why your 'Lynch me on Day 3' feels different to me than flubb's 'Lynch me now'.

By the way, this explanation is also for dedo and HSL who asked similar questions.

@dedo: please explain your vote.

And I was asked why the argument 'He might be playing for scum by Day 3' feels more concrete for flubb than for other players: with the way flubb is playing, there will be no noticeable change if he is converted. Any change for the better will be seen as the usual 'flubb picking up in the later game' - and if he doesn't change, it will be seen 'flubb just flubbing along'. So he is extremely hard to read and therefore would be a good conversion target. If he isn't CL already. Maybe his 'lynch me' was a brash play aiming for exactly the reaction I gave.

nice question :) If I were CL, I'd probably find Wyrm with his "making choice interesting for CL" most bothersome, if he's dead then he isn't interesting anymore. Second Choice (since a wagon on wyrm isn't rolling) are the people that are most engaged in scum hunting asking questions etc. And that really is a tough choice between lift, youself and trent. But on the other hand scummy me might rather go for one of the quieter choices hunter, myself or flub since he might want to recruit the loud ones for his own cultish sake. As for HSL I'm not sure wich category he fits into, he isn't really quiet but on the other hand not very loud either. Dunno if scummy me would be pushing for him (probably not) but town me, would be definitly interested in what he has to say about the others.

Yes he will dig out the details on each player.

He will them mix it into a batch of Kool-aid and have us all drink it.

He must be stopped.

I have the strongest feeling about you, it's not personal, small bits and pieces like the mention of non-official roles/power at the beginning and other reaching, the attempt to put that on Wyrm instead, the whole exchange on his possible play and the way you backed off of him in the end didn't sit well with me. Even though I don't consider the roll call as important on it's own there is something that looked weird back then - you suggested to Hunter to perform some test to see what the impact will be and Hunter actually made steps towards that, yet you didn't follow through. Last, and maybe least, not sure, I got the feeling you were setting up flub for tomorrow based on his suggestion to be Today's lynch because he's a good late game player and he's likely to get converted. This whole point weaks forced to me.

Trent accused you of shade casting, I don't know about that, so I'm not basing anything on it.

So, as I said, a few small things here and there that leave an unpleasant taste in my mouth.


That made me smile. Nicely done.

The Greater Good

@Bookwyrm627 - thanks for the reply.


Cheers.



Apparently it's good enough for you, but it still looks more like an OMGUS vote to me. More so, since there are quite a few other things he's said that are at least as squint-worthy, if not more.



So, you were hoping that mchack would either fill or dig deeper Sage103082's worrying spot, in other words he didn't do either one with his posts and contributions, yet "so far so good"?

And I never said mchack gets an unconditional free pass.


What is the purpose of this question? How does it help with your scum-hunting? You were in the previous iteration of this setup, and when a similar topic was discussed, HijacK, who was the CL, stated he'd recruit trentonlf on N1, the outed Alarmist, yet recruited Hunter65536.



And yet you can't understand why he doesn't change his D1 play for a cult game... Or so you claimed.

Actually I did. No one but Hunter and me participated in that test - you for example didn't. But I did. If you check back, you will see that.

For f* sake, start reading or, if you do, stop misrepresenting. I didn't say I can't understand that. Quite the opposite. I clearly stated that it is possible that he is CL. It's just a feeling. I said 'he feels towny to me, because...' That is something VERY different from 'I don't understand how he could possibly be scum.'
So, once again, either start reading more carefully or stop intentionally twisting the things I write.

Dammit. It's the same as every time. I'm one of the more active players and try to explain my reasons and my impressions - and yes, on Day 1 those are mostly feelings because we don't have anything concrete to go on. But everything gets seen as scummy. No matter what I do. I push for someone = scummy. I stop pushing and retract my vote = scummy. Everyone is again gunning only for the most active players. So, from now on for future games I will intentionally try to lurk more and to be useless. Even if I hate lurking. It's the only way to survive in this community. ... Not for this game, in this game the damage is done and I have stupidly exposed myself again by trying to be useful. But expect a significant change of my behaviour in the next games.

It's true I didn't but I never expressed an intention to do it, either. The test was something the two of you contemplated, so others joining or not isn't the point here.

As for your part - you suggested to perform the experiment in #119.
Hunter agreed and started a roll call in #124 and asked you if you are doing it.
In #130 you confirmed you'll do it yet you didn't start a second roll call.
I don't know how much later your next post came, but it was on the next day and it didn't have anything to do with the roll calls anymore.

You say you did go through with the test that you yourself suggested but I honestly can't see where that happened. I'm ready to eat my own words if you can point me to where you did and apologize.

The Greater Good

So, not really AI indicative then, eh?


Might? As opposed to what?


Because as scum, and the only one at that, i.e. you get lynched D1 and it's game over, you'd not try to appear like a good little townie that can never be sure of who's scum, and pretend to be listening to strong arguments and concede you may be wrong?


Can you point me to where Lifthrasil conceded he might be wrong because of strong arguments presented to him?


[emphasis added]

Gee, I really didn't see that one coming.

That said, two questions:

1. Do you agree with trentonlf's take on dedoporno's play? If yes, why? If not, what differentiates his case from mine?
2. Since you closed your argument agreeing with flubbucket about me, can you point me to where flubbucket, in his firm contributions, took a stance on anyone or anything? The roll call thing excluded, since you believe it's meaningless.


Why is that?


Are you familiar with the term LAMIST?

But do tell, why wouldn't scum-you be interested in what I have to say about others?


The reason your links are all messed up is because, about a month ago, GOG implemented a security fix that led to multiple links in the same line no longer working as they did and should, as well as bad interactions between formatting and hyperlink tags, and you have to use workarounds for such hyperlinks to display correctly (first link in the post I linked to).


My take will come later this afternoon, after I do a couple of rereads.

*waits for the 10 minutes to pass, refreshes*



First off, can you calm down? And leave any threats for post-game?
Being active doesn't automatically make you town, and this AtE outburst isn't exactly doing you any favours, nor will it convince people you're town.

Moving on.

You said in post #228, and I quote [emphasis added]: I even asked if you're serious about this in my post #239, and got no reply from you.

You then make post #245, laying out all the reasons for which flubbucket wouldn't change his intentionally useless (your words) D1 play. To which I replied in my post #249.

Where exactly is the misrepresenting and twisting your words, or the lack of careful reading on my part?
This is the second time you're accusing someone of acting this way, when your own posts disprove you.
At the very least, you may want to follow your own advice.


As I said, my take will come in later this afternoon.

I participated in that test by not responding to the roll call and not getting any punishment for that. So it's not a post restriction. Yes, I forgot to start another roll call whose purpose would have been that anyone who wants can test for himself that not participating doesn't lead to negative consequences. But with JMich basically confirming that the roll calls are basically flavour, the test became pointless.

But if you want to test it, here it is:

The Greater Good

All you have to do now, is to not respond. Then you'll see for yourself that you will not be punished for it.

The Greater Good.

[Bon Jovi - Bad Medicine]

(man, I miss Sam Kinison)