I was the first to point out that his D1 play didn't reflect him having knowledge since N0, so I get all this. My "Am I missing something here?" refers to your [emphasis added] "It was just a single fuzzy read at the time" (post #885), with "at the time" defined by you as [emphasis added] "Last Dusk when we got Hijack's flip which differed from trent's report and the following Night when targeting/planning and so on would have happened" (post #889), as your explanation for your post #881 counterargument to cristigale.


[emphasis added]

Just to make sure I understand you - what exactly are you saying with the part I highlighted in relation to trentonlf's "you're full of it and lying"?

On a side, but related, note - has the way things unfolded Today influenced your view on the likelihood of HijacK having been truthful about his role and alignment?

Question open to anyone that wants to chime in.



You sure enjoy being ambiguous about your claim(s). You know JMich is scum because you investigated him. I was going to ask you how exactly your result was worded, but I see that cristigale beat me to it.

First you said [emphasis added] "scum of some sort" for flubbucket, then "flip scum or some sort", so what alignment do you file under scum? <damn it, RWarhall, we can't use quotation marks to actually quote what others say when referring to alignments, lest we create even more confusion; perhaps we should use the Polish style of them>
And given that the other two of your claimed results don't quite match the flips we got, what makes you so sure that he's scum-scum, and not "scum"?

Seeing that in his posts #833 and #837 JMich doubted your result on HijacK, I'm not sure why you'd expect him to ask any questions about your result on flubbucket, if he were town. I'm also not sure how telling the lack of questions from him is, given that he's hardly asked anyone anything. This is no defence of JMich, I'm just not sure if you're using these arguments in an attempt to make your latest clam about your N2 investigation, its result and your certainty it's accurate, believable. More so since your narrative changed pretty drastically. Why should we believe you're telling the truth this time?


Going over flubbucket's posts, I don't read his vote as his response to you town-clearing him. I mean, given that every argument had already been made at the time he voted you, it does look (a bit) like piggybacking, but I don't see him voting you in relation to your result on him.

Having said that, in the same post you town-cleared him, you also revealed two other results that don't match the actual flips, which, as already pointed out, doesn't exactly mean that you cleared him as town. Additionally, in that same post you claim to have been told by the mod in your role PM that alignments in quotation marks "really mean anti town neutrals", though you don't get them in your results for some reason, which if true, as already pointed out, leaves a lot of room for a flubbucket "Town" flip, i.e. you have anything but cleared him as town.
Call me crazy, but if I were in his shoes, and you had claimed to have "cleared" me as town, I'd not put any stock in it. Again, this is no defence of flubbucket, I just don't think your argument holds up, and I wonder if you weren't hoping that he'd buy it, no questions asked, and have one less player willing to vote you Today.

Funny thing is that you're a pretty smart and skilled player, so I'm doubtful that you actually believe any of this yourself, and in turn quite puzzled if, why and how you expect any of us to believe it.

And you have yet to tell us how drealmr7's N1 action and flip fit in your knowledge about alignments in quotation marks, but I see that cristigale did.


[emphasis added]

OK.



A Bus Diver, or similar, role is within the realm of possibilities, I guess, so if such a role is in play and responsible for the unreliable flips, that would mean that two players were switched with each other at Night, i.e. the alignment of at least one of them isn't their own, or at least not their actual one, yes?

How would a Bus Driver or similar role explain HijacK's flip since he was lynched and not NK-ed?



I've been waiting for trentonlf to make this sort of argument ever since I first asked him, as it's a quite valid one, but he chose to ignore my question. Which makes me wonder why he chose that path, and doesn't exactly help with believing him.



To annoy the mod. Obviously.

The way I understood Trent's accusation was that Hijack is something else from what he claims to be. In terms of his actual role this may or may not be true, but in the context of Hijack's flip what was claimes equals what flipped. I see this as a discrepancy asd Trent's report.


I'm not excluding the possibility Hijack was telling the truth. If Hijack's flip was the same as Yog's I would have probably forgotten about the whole ordeal a long time ago but the difference in claims versus flips is too importnat not to consider. Of course, all of this and basically everything else is based on what the quotes mean. Knowing what context they carry can shift the way a lot of things are being perceived.

None of my investigations have had quotes, the only reason I knew Hijack was a bad guy and not Mafia like my investigation showed is because he told us that his alignment had the quotes around it.

I figured it was pretty obvious with drealmer. I have no idea what kind of neutral he was, no one does except drealmer and RW. The only info I have pertains to quotation marks, if they are not involved then the flip is what they are. So all I can say about drealmer is what we all can say and that's he was some sort of neutral. Again all I'm doing is repeating the same stuff over and over because I've already explained the whole quotation mark thing more than once.


I'm about to the point of not caring if y'all believe me or not on anything, pretty sure this will be a scum win the way it's going. Whoever that is left that's actually town if you want us to win this game we need to lynch JMich, lynching me would kill a townie and leave a scum JMich alive. Let scum waste a kill on me tonight, don't give them a mislynch today.

Sorry, again not sure I follow what difference you're referring to - yougsloth claimed he'd flip Mafia (because he claimed to be a Death Miller), and he did; HijacK claimed he'd flip "Mafia", and he did. So both flipped what they claimed they'd flip.



And you didn't answer the most important of her question: Any chance you will?


What makes you certain that scum will go for you on N3 after the way things unfolded Today, if you are who you claim to be? Your results can't be trusted, and enough people seem to doubt you already, so what threat exactly are you to them? You yourself say they'd be wasting a kill on you, i.e. you don't seem to think that they will go for you, or you know you won't die Tonight, in which case you've either lied about that one-shot passive Bulletproof or you're not really a mislynch. What are we supposed to think if you survive the Night?



Poor flubbucket, must be one of those days if you can't comment on a hypothetical.


Funny.

But both of them claimed the same role yet they are different. They were supposed to investigate and flip as something but they flipped as different things and one investigated as a different thing. I don't know what else you want me to say. I'm speaking mostly from memory and if I'm making mistakes I'm sorry. Point them out if you wish but I'm not continuing this discussion any longer. I'm not even sure where we started from, I don't know where we are going with it and honestly I don't even care anymore. I had the longest week and even longer day and what we are looping over is getting so old and annoying that I don't feel like continuing the conversation over this. Take this however you want, at the moment I don't even care.

Given that HijacK flipped the way he said and the distinction between his flip and yog's flip, I think there is still a decent possibility he was town. If he was town, I wish he would have engaged trent on his claim.

If trent flips plain town, HijacK was lying. If trent' flips anything else, I'd lean HijacK more likely town, but it doesn't confirm it.

I alwayz haz the dumb.

I'm back. It seems nothing will change and I'm about to go to bed. I think we are one vote off so I'm adding mine to the pool. It's up to cristi or HSL to hammer or do something else.

@trent, I'm sorry if you're telling the truth. Either way I don't think this game will continue much longer given the amount of kills that we seem to have lying around.

vote trentonlf

I'm headed out. I was hoping trent would clarify his report on JMich. I'm not sure if I'll be back before the deadline so:

Vote trentonlf

And lynch has been achieved. Flavor and more when I get home. But the short story is a Town flip. No quotes. Cease posting.

So the day went on, "Oh so you think you know what's going on..." "No one likes a smarty pants!" "Smarty pants! Smarty pants!"

As all but HypersomniacLive escorts trentonlf out the front door into the waiting arms of the "Community Elders". "I'm Town, why are you doing this?"

A few hours later the Elders come back to tell you, "Well that was a mistake! We are certain trentonlf was Town. Oh, we dug up some information on docbear1975. Her name was Aileen Wuornos. Good luck to you all tonight! You'll need it after that lynch!"

It is now night. Please send your night actions at your earliest convenience and thus with quicktopics may begin posting.

The day dawns and looking around you count all four of you alive...
Then realizing that there were 5 of you, you go about looking for Gamma/JMich who is found hung up in a closet in a very unnatural way.

The Community Elders investigate. "Hmm...sadistic...seems done by the same sick individual who killed Lifthrasil. Looks like the 4 of you still have work to do. From the looks of what's left of him, it's hard to tell, but we think he was "Town"".

We've also gathered some more information for you.
Sage103082 was named Jill Armstrong but her parents were going to name him Joe if she were born a boy.
Bookwyrm627 did not own a gun
bler144 was named Blain Cooper
yogsloth was secretly an International Hitman

Good luck to you all!

----------------

The game is back on.

So trentonlf was plain town....do you think we have a player messing with reveals??

I can't think of a way how a single person can do that. They have to have a day power to modify the lynch flips and a night power to do it for night kills. Also, on N1 we had 2 quote flips, so a single player doing this seems less likely to me.

We now know that Trent was telling the truth about his alignment (unless bastard stuff) so it should be safe to assume everything Trent said was true. This means Hijack was scum after all (I will elaborate on why that is even more likely now in a bit) and JMich was also some form of anti-town.

Torture kill is still on second night in a row. Double tap and execution are not making re-appearance (second night without execution). The hanging is new. I believe some kills have been blocked.

As for Hijack - something emerged now that I was not sharing openly so far - bler's name. A fictional character. When I prompted Hijack to share his character name I was actually hoping for something similar but unfortunately (or fortunately?!) he provided a "safe" real-person name to go with his claim. This was in perfect tune with Gordon Ramsey, but a lying Hjack may not have known that there are fictional characters among us as well. Docbear was a psychotic female killer who was show in that movie Monster if I'm not mistaken but it was still a real person. Unlike Blain from the Predator (who by the way operates the "Old painless" minigun - we can only guess what power he had). As far as I know Blain is the first entirely fictional character that gets revealed, so we are now one small potential detection option short, but oh well.

Does someone know who is Jill/Joe Armstrong? I can't seem to find anything that makes sense.