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General discussionForum Mafia #49 - Retirement isn't so Peaceful(1018 posts)(1018 posts)
(1018 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 29, 2017
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HijacK: I've been hinting at a protective role quite hard. Closeness to former boss, mention of Bodyguard, denying active killing mechanism. They were all one after the other after yogy claimed.
At first I thought the closeness and other things were supposed to be "inside" information for yog. In the end my guess was also bodyguard, but you did say there are a few roles that satisfy the criteria. I have to confess that I don't remember the denial of active killing.


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HijacK: Oh, that part. Yeah, I don't recall mentioning it. I didn't think it served any importance. It's Sonny Barger.
I was hoping for something different. Eh...
Posted June 29, 2017
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dedoporno: Did Hijack soft-claim he was such type of protective role? I remember a few roles that were satisfying some description I can't cite by heart were listed and some of them were sacrificial but was that supposed to be a soft-claim?[...]
I see HijacK already pointed out the bits. I took them as soft-claiming, and so did bler144, perhaps someone else too (too tired and sleepy to go dig up posts right now).


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dedoporno: [...] As for how they work - this is not your everyday mafia game with standard roles so is it worth it to discuss how the normal roles work? [...]
I'm not talking theory about normal roles here, that was in direct relation to the setup, and the claimed roles we have.

I expect any of the "take a bullet" protective roles, whatever variant, to die when actually taking that bullet for the player they're protecting. If we think that this part of the role may not apply in our setup, then why discuss the Elite Bodyguard as working as the MS wiki (or other such sites) says, or the Death Miller, or any other role, standard variant or not, should it be in play?

Not sure I follow what exactly your objection is.


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dedoporno: [...] Which plot devices are presented as something else than actual Town?
Should the flips be like JMich suggested, then adaliabooks, gogtrial34987 and zeogold wouldn't actually be Town. Didn't you follow my thought process on the whole thing?
Posted June 29, 2017
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HypersomniacLive: I expect any of the "take a bullet" protective roles, whatever variant, to die when actually taking that bullet for the player they're protecting. If we think that this part of the role may not apply in our setup, then why discuss the Elite Bodyguard as working as the MS wiki (or other such sites) says, or the Death Miller, or any other role, standard variant or not, should it be in play?

Not sure I follow what exactly your objection is.
I don't know if I have an objection. I still can't understand what the point of this specific thread is. What are we discussing here exactly?


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HypersomniacLive: Should the flips be like JMich suggested, then adaliabooks, gogtrial34987 and zeogold wouldn't actually be Town. Didn't you follow my thought process on the whole thing?
I followed the thought process but your comment made it sound like this was a fact and not just a theory. And a far-fetched theory as far as I'm concerned until there are reliable evidence that confirm it.
Posted June 29, 2017
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dedoporno: At first I thought the closeness and other things were supposed to be "inside" information for yog. In the end my guess was also bodyguard, but you did say there are a few roles that satisfy the criteria. I have to confess that I don't remember the denial of active killing.
Well, denying I am a vigilante basically served as denying of being able to actively kill.
Posted June 29, 2017
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HypersomniacLive: Elite Bodyguard is not that unthinkable to have in a role-madness game hosted by RWarehall. Have you forgotten how adaliabboks begged you to claim "Lynchproof Bulettproof Governor" because he was an Absorber-variant in one of RWarehall's games?

As to if it'd be way overpowered, wouldn't that depend on what other roles are in play?


Does it really say that though? [emphasis added]: Perhaps it's just me (are you reading, Bookwyrm627? ;-P), but couldn't that bit mean that yogsloth was a hired gun for one of the Mafia families, instead of an actual member of said family? If so, then it would mean that his flip is not reliable. which brings me to JMich's post #690.
Depending on what other roles are in play an Elite Bodyguard is feasible as a role (as is any role), but I still think it's an unlikely role.

Yes I would agree that the power of a role would depend on what other roles are in play.

Yes it could mean that yog's was a hired gun for one of the families, but that's just semantics as he is still mafia. The whole point with there being multiple families in play is that Hijack can be scum and not be partnered with yog's.
Posted June 29, 2017
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dedoporno: Did Hijack soft-claim he was such type of protective role? I remember a few roles that were satisfying some description I can't cite by heart were listed and some of them were sacrificial but was that supposed to be a soft-claim?[...]
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HypersomniacLive: I see HijacK already pointed out the bits. I took them as soft-claiming, and so did bler144, perhaps someone else too (too tired and sleepy to go dig up posts right now).

I thought it was a fairly strong soft claim, bodyguard seemed to fit the best.
Posted June 29, 2017
EBWOP - misplaced end quote

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dedoporno: Did Hijack soft-claim he was such type of protective role? I remember a few roles that were satisfying some description I can't cite by heart were listed and some of them were sacrificial but was that supposed to be a soft-claim?[...]
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HypersomniacLive: I see HijacK already pointed out the bits. I took them as soft-claiming, and so did bler144, perhaps someone else too (too tired and sleepy to go dig up posts right now).
I thought it was a fairly strong soft claim, bodyguard seemed to fit the best.
Posted June 29, 2017
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HypersomniacLive: ................

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flubbucket: Unvote: HijacK
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HypersomniacLive: What reason(s) for did you unvote him?
His claim sounds plausible.






It's sort of a feeling.............way down deep in my adult diaper.
Posted June 29, 2017
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HypersomniacLive: ...and that is that I've never seen a game where any players used as plot devices were presented as anything but Town, actual Town.
I gave this some more thought and my stance on the matter solidified further. You yourself say that you haven't seen a game where plot devices were presented as something else but Town. Why do you assume it's the reverse in this game if all experience so far points to the opposite? Why assume that the addition of something that changes the original state of another thing (in our case the qutoation marks) is meant to confirm that it's state is actually unchanged?

As for the plot devices themselves we are forgetting that zeogold actually has a sample Town PM attached to him. And it's noteworthy that it's exactly him who has the sample and the other two have the additional partial reveals. It's hard to believe a scum plot device is getting a Town PM.

I don't know about others but I have to make a real effort to take all this information in the way it's presented and assume something other than it says.


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flubbucket: His claim sounds plausible.

It's sort of a feeling
Do you have a better alternative in mind?
Posted June 29, 2017
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trentonlf: Yes it could mean that yog's was a hired gun for one of the families, but that's just semantics as he is still mafia. The whole point with there being multiple families in play is that Hijack can be scum and not be partnered with yog's.
Exactly. In any case I am quite sure that he isn't town with the way he played.

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dedoporno: As for the plot devices themselves we are forgetting that zeogold actually has a sample Town PM attached to him. And it's noteworthy that it's exactly him who has the sample and the other two have the additional partial reveals. It's hard to believe a scum plot device is getting a Town PM.
Which means that JMich's theory that the flips with quotation marks are the real ones is probably false. Which in turn would mean that yogs was actually Mafia and we have two dead actual neutrals. At least one of which was a killer. Probably. I still wonder what the 'sword attached to drealmer's hand' means. Would a killer attach his sword to his hand? Wouldn't he just hold it? I really hope that the next Dawn will clear up some things with additional info from the Elders or from some roles or from whatever happens at night.

But for now I don't see any better case than HijacK and barring someone making a really strong case against someone else I don't see me moving my vote.
Posted June 29, 2017
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HypersomniacLive: However, something gave me pause, and that is that I've never seen a game where any players used as plot devices were presented as anything but Town, actual Town.
At least 2 cases. Game 16, though in that one mafia was the uninformed majority and town the informed minority, which made accusing someone of being mafia quite weird, and game 19 where the plot device was neutral.
I assume if one goes looking, they will find more examples. Not to mention that just because we haven't encountered something yet doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
Posted June 29, 2017
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dedoporno: ..................

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flubbucket: His claim sounds plausible.

It's sort of a feeling
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dedoporno: Do you have a better alternative in mind?
An alternative place for my vote I'm guessing??

No.

My brain is feeling a little Day One-ish. Rereading players gives me circular patterns of possibilities leaving me with an everybody could be guilty.

Dissecting the beginning of day post from RWarehall: 1) I can see Bookwyrm as a PGO since 2)dreamler was "shot in the act" of killing. 3) The sword gives me something of a ninja feeling, but that's pure speculation. It could be nothing more than a counter role for a gunsmith. 4) Bler144 was executed as well as 5) yogsloth because he was alone in the kitchen.

Alignment could be as others have postulated. Bookwyrm would investigate as "Town" but would actually be different. dreamler was definitely neutral. Bler144 would also investigare as "Neutral" but would actually be different. And yogsloth was definitely mafia.

The other option which comes to mind is a janitor. Being able to scrub mafia to neutral, town to mafia or some such. There was allusion by RWarehall to potential roles which would have an effect on reveals in the sign-up thread.

The Toxic Avenger was a killing janitor.
Posted June 29, 2017
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flubbucket: The other option which comes to mind is a janitor. Being able to scrub mafia to neutral, town to mafia or some such. There was allusion by RWarehall to potential roles which would have an effect on reveals in the sign-up thread.
I didn't think of that even when I remembered about our game where the hammering whatever was making everyone Town Vanilla. Quite possible but that would mean that we have multiple people with such an ability. Which makese some sense if I think about it. Maybe one is making all victims "Neutral" and the other - "Town".

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flubbucket: The Toxic Avenger was a killing janitor.
I have never heard of this one but I guess it's in the realm of possibilities to have something similar.


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flubbucket: And yogsloth was definitely mafia.
In which case how do you suppose Yog knew about the death miller?
Posted June 29, 2017
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flubbucket: And yogsloth was definitely mafia.
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dedoporno: In which case how do you suppose Yog knew about the death miller?
If that exists at all. If HijacK really is a Death Miller yogs either had some N0 information or made the luckiest shot in the dark in history. I don't believe the latter. N0 information is possible, but I think it more likely that HijacK latched on to a claim that had proven to work. As I already suspected on D1. So far nothing has happened to make that scenario less likely.
Posted June 29, 2017
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Lifthrasil: If that exists at all. If HijacK really is a Death Miller yogs either had some N0 information or made the luckiest shot in the dark in history. I don't believe the latter. N0 information is possible, but I think it more likely that HijacK latched on to a claim that had proven to work. As I already suspected on D1. So far nothing has happened to make that scenario less likely.
Dude, please! I'm trying to work with flub here :D
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionForum Mafia #49 - Retirement isn't so Peaceful(1018 posts)(1018 posts)
(1018 posts)