First - wow. I expected more than one death, but this seems like too much (there isn't telling how many night kills didn't go off).

3 people shot, one stabbed. This has to bear some importance. This should mean we have at least 2 killers of whatever alignment still on the loose (potentially 1+ more).

Second - Yog did say his kill power was limited (Gimped Vigilante was the claimed role) and from what I understood there was a chance of failure, meaning kill might have not being blocked but just fizzled.


I will follow your advice on not posting and won't disclose details on what information I might have gotten or not from a night action I may or may not have. Good advice.


This may very well be true and the grace time request did make sense in the context of what Hijack said before with his studies...


... but this I have to agree with. For someone who doesn't have enough time to provide what they promised because of limited time (which I can understand since I'm in a similar situation) Hijack seems to have spent (and continues to do so) a decent amount of time in the game thread being active, as well.


@Hijack, I don't think anyone is judging your priorities or how you decide to spend your free time but if you are here playing the game, then you are expected to play the game. Anything else is just evasion regardless of the reasons behind it.

On another note I see that you have started to tell people to fuck off and stuff. What happened to all the esteemed sirs and similar decorum? That almost looked genuine up until some point. It's a shame you seem to be dropping it, I hope it wasn't all an act to go with that early request to not look at people's different meta.


I'll wait with my vote until others have the chance to drop by. I'm also interested in that claim and the way the gun works.

Lift is either smoking some serious ganja, or he's a really good actor. Either way, he needs to improve his reading comprehension. I detailed my reasons very clearly and if people don't want to comply with my 36 hour request, they can piss off. :* Neutrals... neutrals everywhere. They're like vultures, I swear. I'm counting 3 so far.

Flub is town.

@dedo: I'm quite polite in general, humble sir. However, I drop pleasantries (old habits die hard) when individuals try to low ball me, especially with shitty arguments and retarded reasons. I'm sorry, but accusing me of abusing the meta is something that just simply enrages me and I won't tolerate any such statements. I have a decent case of ADHD upon preliminary examinations (final examination and diagnosis are pending for when I get to a psychiatrist) and I don't want to risk having the game in the back of my mind during exams. It happened a lot during Freshman year, so I am avoiding claiming because it's in my best self interest. This goes beyond alignment and in game objectives in absolutely all cases and all games. This is about serious matters. I already have the claim post written, however, high post and reaction numbers anticipation enables me to garner more interest into the game and I can't focus. Slow updates here and there are manageable when I take a break every or so hour, and finding a new interesting post to read for a bit generally rejuvenates me and I get back to studying in a better mind set. Most posts take a couple minutes to write or read, so the whole "You're spending quite a HEFTY amount of time playing" argument is honestly stupid and I won't take this bullshit excuse, for lack of an actual case, as a refutation of my reasons. If people want to act like dicks and accuse me of meta lying and utilizing real life as an excuse in order to push, I will tell them to go straight into the depths of where they got that shit from and even ask for a replacement or drop the game.
tl;dr Don't be a dick with your gameplay, and I won't be a dick with my language.

For example, I typed this in less than 5 minutes. I have quite fast typing skills and with relatively few spelling errors. If posting is my respite from studying, that's my business and no one else's. End of the story.

Off to my Introduction to Marketing final! See you all in about 3 hours... or maybe not. Who knows?

Another thing to not is the changes in the OP. There we have the death list where some of the dead are shown as Town or Mafia or Neutral, while Bookwyrm is shown as "Town" and bler as "Neutral". So there is some kind of difference between these flips. Which fits with the Daystart post, where RW wrote for Bookwyrm and bler that they were hard to make out but for the other two there are the words 'definitely Neutral' and 'definitely ... Mafia'. So for now I read it that the flips in quotation marks should be taken with a grain of salt - or have to be confirmed by some post-mortem investigation - while the flips without quotation marks are reliable. Which would make yogs definitely scum.

I really hope that RW doesn't use the word 'definitely' to intentionally mislead us!

First off, good luck with your paper and your exams, HijacK.


I know this is meant in a sarcastic way, but to borrow one of Brasas' favourite terms, your "narrative" evolves with every question and new piece of info, so I'm actually in favour of nobody revealing anything about their night-actions until after your full claim.

More after I go over the thread properly and address some things you've said.

Yes, you did. They just don't make sense to me. Why would you have to be around more than you are now after a claim? Your current presence here is quite enough for a claim. Especially if you really have already written it, as you say. Then just post it! Putting the claim out there would give other players the chance to read it, think about it and write their opinion about it. To which you then can reply whenever you have time to. It would be much more helpful than intentionally withholding information. So your reluctance doesn't make sense if you are town. It only makes sense if you feel you have to be around nonstop after the claim for damage control, in case someone spots an error in it.


You shouldn't look in 3 mirrors at once then.

Am I the only one to notice this?

Great eye.

Wait what? I had a question about mine and asked and got an answer so what do you mean by this?



I was going to point this out too, You seem to be the only person so far to notice or feel the need to comment on it. Is it normal to have two different killing weapons in a game?

And you know this because?

I agree with you. I noticed the "" too. I dont think we can take it as a solid at all if it is in "".

I honestly do not believe Hijacks claim and I am not at all fond of his wanting more time. If he was town he would just share and give us time to talk about whatever he claims he has and then question him more when he came back. Not pushing off telling anything at all. And trying to give himself more time to come up with reasons and possibilities to help only himself.

I have no problem voting right now.

Has everyone has a chance to catch up?

I do not want to vote until everyone has had a chance to contribute

No? Lift already addressed that and I responded to it. But I see you already noticed afterwards. I'm curious, why do you not go back to revise your posts when such things happen?


We already saw the three shot people and Hijack used a very specific wording that he "owned a gun" (in contrast to gogtrial who "did not own a gun"). Pretty sure most if not all of us got a clarification from the mod which said if we were gun owners or not. I wonder if drealmer (and maybe other(s)) were told if they were blade owners. I'd say a bunch of people own guns, even though some of them may not actually shoot so to speak. Maybe the other weapons of the non-gun variety don't get detected by a potential investigative power role?

With that said I'm more inclined to believe that drealmer being a neutral was the exception to the rule.


Cristi is yet to make a more meaningful appearance, also HSL promised to get back with more thoughts.


Perma ObviTown, obviously :P

Let me see if I understand this theory correctly. You suggest, and go as far as to say that you think that there's no legit Mafia, and that we have a setup of only Neutrals, with more than one of them being a killing role, and Town, with the added twist that Town looks like Mafia.

After just D1 and N1, three(?)* Neutrals are exposed, tipping Town off that there's something fishy going on, while Neutrals, that probably have it the hardest as it is, are misled to think that there may not be a Town, or believe that Town looks like Mafia when they're not.

This sounds like you're suggesting that the mod set the game up in a way that it tips off Town that something wacky is going on by allowing the exposure of the existence of multiple Neutrals to Town, but at the same time misleads the Neutrals in play that there may be no Town, unless they believe that Town just looks like Mafia. And this is without even taking into account that Bookwyrm627 flipped "Town" which you don't touch upon and how that may fit in with your theory.

I mean, I understand that you can't but hold on to, defend and push that Miller claim you made D1, but does this really sound believable to be the design of someone who has no dog in the fight? Does the player that fake-claimed Neutral Bulletproof Berserker in a previous game really expaects us to believe that this is a theory said player actually believes?

(*) though one of them has sort of a question-mark due to flipping in quotation marks.


So now you have a gun? When earlier you tried to convince us, or at least lead us on, that you have no killing power?


When did you tell us? A few hours prior to this post of yours? Because not only do I not recall you mentioning it before your post #596, but your ISO doesn't reveal anything of the sort, explicitly stated or hinted at.

Given the various things you provided about your role description, I find it hard to believe that there's nothing in your PM saying, or at least hinting at you protecting someone in an active way, contrary to how protective roles usually work. I also find it hard to believe that if there was any sort of ambiguity about this, you wouldn't have already asked for clarification, given that you've admitted to have had further exchanges with the mod, asking for clarification. Heck, if I were in your shoes and got a PM saying that I investigate and flip Mafia, even though I'm not, one of the first things I'd ask the mod would be if I have a gun. Because, you know, that kinda goes with the territory of Mafia. Yet, you said nothing about it Yesterday; in fact you went to rather great lengths in your exchanges with Lifthrasil to lead us to believe that you don't, while leaving enough ambiguity to wiggle out of it later.

You claim to have protected cristigale, which comes to no surprise - you're still alive, so you must have picked one of the living players for the whole protective role hinting business to still stand.

But you go on to claim that you're unsure if you actually took a shot at anyone that died last Night, and go so far as to not rule out that cristigale may have been targeted last Night and you shot her killer dead, and not only saved her but somehow didn't die yourself in the process.

Whatever action resolution method the mod uses, any and all killings happen at the very end of the Night, and everyone does their thing at the same time. If nothing prevents/interferes with any of the killings, they should all go through. So, if one of the dead players shot at cristigale, i.e. basically at you, and their shot and yours were successful, then you should also be dead. So, the simplest answer would be that nobody took a shot/threw a knife/whatever at her, while it can't be ruled out that, if she was targeted, the attempt was blocked or redirected.
Yet you go on and on about how you may or may not have shot any of the dead players. I don't see why you feel the need to associate/disassociate yourself from any of the deaths, why you go over who you could or couldn't have killed last Night. Kind of looks like that one of the deaths struck a cord with you, and you try to anticipate any incriminating info coming out. Would also explain why you rushed out to reveal that you do have a gun.

As I said, your "narrative" evolves with every question and new piece of info, and that does not read as coming from a town mindset, or town thought-process. I'm inclined to think that you're going for the "it's so exaggerated that it can't be anything but true" sort of "full" claim. And while I don't believe that your paper and exams are a cover to buy you time, I have to side with both trentonlf and Lifthrasil and say that the way you've phrased/worded your posts so far sounds like you want others to disclose any information they may have to avoid any contradictions in what you have planned to say.

Case in point:

Why does this, ever so subtly, sound awfully like you're fishing for info before you say anything more?


[emphasis added]

I've ISO-ed yogsloth, and I see nothing to support that he did what you claim here. So, please, go find the post that does. Because right now, it seems to be simply your interpretation that fits your claim ("the same goes for me", etc.).


Do tell, what are his D1 questionable actions, and why?

And where did this come from? I mean, flubbucket made no further posts after the one you mentioned his D1 questionable actions.


How can you extrapolate from flavour that you may not have been in the same room as yogsloth, given that neither you nor crisitgale are mentioned anywhere in it, and you admit to not knowing where she was?

What do I think about what?? ............HijacK's claim??

yogsloth is dead and I had nothing to do with it. As far as what I intend to do with the allegation.....I did vote.

I never used the word proof.

Would make sense that for example a Gunsmith can only detect actual guns and someone who kills exclusively using blades (like drealmer, apparently) would be immune to a Gunsmith's power. And yes, I got a clarification message from RW too and I think everyone did.

I was in the middle of addressing HijacK's posts when you asked, and was going to comment on the D2 opening post after.that. The quotation marks did not escape me, and I find it quite odd that HijacK had nothing to say about the difference in the presentation of the flips, even though he said that he read the D2 opening post more than once.

I don't think that the fact that some flips have quotation marks and some don't is random, or of little to no significance, but don't know how to read it.

May indicate that the Elders' initial reads of some alignments need to be confirmed, which in turn would indicate that the flips of docbear1975, drealmer7 and yogsloth were all checked and verified as true. Do we think this likely to have happened during a single Day and Night?

The Elders, based on the OP flavour, are members of the Mafia that runs this place, so should know a thing or two about rival families and who's a member or not, who's an innocent bystander, etc. Perhaps some of the deaths and the rest of the evidence don't quite fit, hence made it hard for them to discern the alignments with certainty at the time, but further looking into it may clear things up later on? I mean, additional info was provided regarding the plot devices, though see my comment on that a bit further down.

I toyed with the idea that maybe the lack of quotation marks indicate that the players didn't actually kill anyone, even if some of them intended to, but find it unlikely - It could explain docbear1975's "clean" flip, and yogsloth's if he failed to perform the kill, or was prevented, but doesn't explain drealmer7's case, unless one wants to argue that he was framed with that "the sword still attached" to his hand.

Regarding Bookwyrm627 in particular, I have to say that when I saw that "Town" his comment about a Godfather came to mind, though I admit that if that was the case it'd be a tad too obvious when everything seems to be pretty tangled.

As for bler144 flipping "Neutral", I couldn't help but remember that I questioned him about the SK, though the quotation marks seem to indicate that it too can't be that easy. Can it?

I'm not sure if the info about the plot devices bears any significance to the recent events or are thrown in to add to the uncertainty and confusion (from what I recall, RWarehall quite enjoys doing the latter as mod). If the former, I don't know what to make of "Divorce Attorney", other than some begrudged divorcee taking him out and making it look like natural causes, but the "was not a gun owner" about gogtrial34987 is rather interesting.


I was also going to jump on yogsloth for his post #581, after rereading it - the arguments he made about the Bodyguard working better as a Mafia role were utter bollocks, more so for town-yogsloth to go there. It sounded like a convenient excuse to still use his killing ability on N1 when the lurkers issue was already resolved (remember, he had made his killing power to be all about taking care of them), and HijacK was hardly someone the rest of us would object to see go down. Did he actually go after HijacK? Any reason to trust he did when he lied about pretty much everything else?



[emphasis added]

What do you mean by "maybe even his "false" role""?

And are you saying that mafia may not read as mafia? What makes you consider this?

And no sure I understand where you're going with the "having a night kill" - if he was scum, doesn't it mean, by definition, that he had a night-kill? Are you suggesting that the faction-kill may be assigned/tied to a specific member? Something else?



Don't forget JMich.

My theory on this is that this is the or at least part of the informational mechanic - maybe it's the game's way to "catch up" and gradually reveal some information that at some point will start to make sense to some or all of us. Maybe we don't really have a designated investigator but such a delayed information exposure will be the medium of acquiring such data. Anyway, no point in discussing this right now, something that's better hidden might come out by accident. I'm sure sooner or later it will become clearer.


Yog said that he will flip as Mafia Something (Goon/Thug/Hitman) where Hijack said Muscle. This in contrast to his "real" role Gimped Vigilante, hence "false" role. Quotation marks since we don't know how false it really is.


No, you got it. My point was that by claiming everything that was actually true about him as "false" information scum-Yog basically covered himself from almost anything that might have happened to him during the night. Investigated? Sure, he reads falsely as Mafia Goon. Tracked and target dead? Sure, he's a trigger-happy vigilante who couldn't hardly wait to use his Vig shot on N1 in a crazy role madness game. Gunsmith investigation? Sure, still Vigilante. The only thing that he probably didn't have a way to cover was getting killed himself.

As for the kill being assigned to a specific someone - no, I don't think so anymore, but at one point I did.


Oh, yes! @JMich, what do you think about everything that has been going on lately?

And Yog's. The whole ordeal.

I haven't said that you had something to do with it. I said that you were pondering over lynching him to prove his claim. Seeing docbear's claim I would assume that we wouldn't have gotten much more if Yog was lynched rather than night-killed so I was curious if that newly acquired information is coming in handy.

My bad. You used the word "prove".

Current votes:
HijacK - flubbucket; trentonlf; Lifthrasil

Not voting: JMich; HypersomniacLive; dedoporno; Sage103082; HijacK; cristigale

Majority has not been reached.