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General discussionForum Mafia #49 - Retirement isn't so Peaceful(1018 posts)(1018 posts)
(1018 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 22, 2017
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drealmer7: could vote lift or trent at this point, I wouldn't be opposed to wagoning sage at this point either, actually

yogs, hijack, bler, HSL, flub, are all off the table
Lift and Trent I can understand from your pov to some extent but why Sage? Just because you got annoyed with her or something more?

You didn't mention me, by the way.


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bler144: Other "muscle" roles might include strongman (as yogs noted), or jailer, or arguably roleblocker or other killing roles. But none of those fit with the road captain or the "close to my boss wink wink" thing.
After a while I came to the same conclusion, although I did hope it will make sense to Yog flavor-wise.


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RWarehall: If JMich will sub, I may extend the deadline to Friday night if he thinks he can catch up in time, otherwise, Gamma will just die as if he was lynched or NK'd.
If this happens will be during the day? Are we getting his details as if he was lynched? If yes, we should probably hold back on docbear.


PPE: Another page and people are bursting Lift. Something is happening it seems. I'm catching up.
Posted June 22, 2017
Ah, OK, it wasn't anything new, people just decided to finally put that vote in. I wonder why it took so long.


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flubbucket: I am inclined to lynch one of them in order to prove it.
How is that proving anything other than the claimed "false" flip?
Posted June 22, 2017
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drealmer7: could vote lift or trent at this point, I wouldn't be opposed to wagoning sage at this point either, actually

yogs, hijack, bler, HSL, flub, are all off the table
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dedoporno: Lift and Trent I can understand from your pov to some extent but why Sage? Just because you got annoyed with her or something more?

You didn't mention me, by the way.
meh, sage isn't a great option with how little time there is, actually. She could be scum but it is too late to pressure her with votes / a wagon like ppl were trying to do with docbear, I should have more said that she is someone I would have liked to see that happen to

but yeah, too late at this point, I think lift is by far the best choice

as far as you, was there something specifically you've said you want me to comment on? I've been following, haven't taken issue with much you've said and like a lot of what you've contributed even if I don't agree with all of it - you don't interest me today certainly

oh and @trent, if gamma and I have never been scum together (again, I linked where you can easily look), how is me saying "again" a slip?
Posted June 22, 2017
I've been informed I should sub, and I've started reading this thread. This most likely means I'll be unable to provide any meaningful posts today, and will most likely result in me being lynched or night killed to help with the subbing.
At least I wasn't here for the RVS stage...
Posted June 22, 2017
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drealmer7: as far as you, was there something specifically you've said you want me to comment on? I've been following, haven't taken issue with much you've said and like a lot of what you've contributed even if I don't agree with all of it - you don't interest me today certainly
Nothing specific, I just thought you were trying to list reads/opinion on everyone and wondered why you left me out. Maybe I need to participate more to make a stronger impression :D


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JMich: I've been informed I should sub, and I've started reading this thread. This most likely means I'll be unable to provide any meaningful posts today, and will most likely result in me being lynched or night killed to help with the subbing.
At least I wasn't here for the RVS stage...
Mostly Wyrm wants you dead, I believe, and not even but your slot. Now that we have a person who will potentially participate more I doubt the current vote focus will change. That said, please try to catch up faster and partake before the end of the Day.
Posted June 22, 2017
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HypersomniacLive: Not sure I follow - the mod put two Millers in the game, so that the second one to claim gets screwed? Is that what you're saying? Do you think that the mod deliberately put town in a disadvantage before the game even started? To what end?
The mod probably set things up to force town to look at how and what people are saying, not simply fall back on role claims to solve the game.

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HijacK: I don't know. I don't think they truly understand. Perhaps I am biased in this endeavor, but I feel there's slightly less than what it used to be in terms of number of people seeing the full picture.
What is the full picture, as you see it?

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RWarehall: At this point, Gamma is no more. ... If JMich will sub, I may extend the deadline to Friday night if he thinks he can catch up in time, otherwise, Gamma will just die as if he was lynched or NK'd.
I'll take what I can get.

Unvote Gamma.

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bler144: On the vote thing, if town you were over-thinking it. Not sure why. Go back two days ago when I was goading you, she moves to L-4. Then you have a wagon tempting enough for scum to try to push along (if !town-doc) or to counter (if !scum-doc).
-Two days ago I was still in the mood to wait and see if she'd start taking some of the suggestions on how to get more involved. Two days ago it looked like people were ready to run her up the lynch pole for basically being a non-contributor.

-Take a look at the player list. Which players, if scum, do you think will try to start a counter-wagon to save scum!Docbear? Will any of them not just throw her under the bus? What do you think of the reasons for people voting and not voting her? Which of those reasons are AI?

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bler144: At this point it's basically bupkis b/c we're close. Also, while we haven't had a vote count in a while I'm pretty sure Hijack has as many/more votes as doc at this point.
According to official vote counts, Hijack didn't have any votes at all when I voted Gamma. He picked up two of his votes while I was afk yesterday, so what's your point about the length of Hijack's wagon in comparison to Doc's?

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HijacK: I teased some more info. Not sure if you caught onto that, but you seem the be the one that's closest to the truth.
If I'm right about your hints, then I think seeing the setup is going to be wild. Funny part is that you'll probably need an explanation for bits of it.

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cristigale: Just a followup, Gamma is being replaced in his games on mafiascum. Replacement requests started Tuesday afternoon, I didn't notice it until now.
Good to know, and much more forgivable if he's disappeared entirely. Maybe he got grounded or something.

-----

Looks like we have 3 tied wagons now: Lift, Hijack, and Docbear.

Contrary to what I said earlier, I don't know if I'll have time right near the deadline to get back on. I'm going to try and make some time to reread them and make my decision within the next 6 hours.

Pending that reread, my preference is
Vote Docbear.

-Docbear hasn't taken the opportunities and suggestions offered.
-Super bouncy ball that he's been, I'm not quite ready to commit on Lift. Doesn't help that two of the votes on his wagon bug me.
-Hijack's claim is believable, as is the timing, and he's mostly been talking sense. Need to reread him to see how the claim and softing fits with his earlier posting. Additionally, he may resolve himself.

-----

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yogsloth: <poke>
Hey Yog. Since it looks like Gamma is being replaced, who are your primary choices for targets tonight?
Posted June 22, 2017
Crazy day at work and I have to rush to give a lecture about right now. I'll check in shortly this evening, before heading to choir practice. So I could only skim and not read in detail now. I see that two of my top scum picks have finally decided to vote me. Which is to be expected, I guess.

@HSL: yes, you and drealmer is still a possibility in my mind. Or you and HijacK (stringing town-drealmer along) or even the three of you as a happy triple. Or HijacK and drealmer as scum and you as neutral. Because something about you is definitely different from town-HSL.
And about HijacK and wiggling: I mean the way he hints at something and then, if I interpret it in the way I read it and react or ask accordingly, he invariably states that I have misread his hints. That could be avoided with an actual claim, putting things on the table and I think now that the half-claim is out, town would be more served with clarity than with hints.

Which leads me to: @HijacK: what about that claim? Didn't make anything convincing up? Or are you waiting for the OK from everyone? Or did you decide, after all, not to claim? (perhaps because you are not sure yet, what exactly to claim)

Good that Gamma has been taken out of the game. I hope that JMich subs in.

For the moment I still think we should lynch HijacK. Two Death Millers are just too unlikely and I believe yogs more than HijacK. But if that wagon doesn't go anywhere, I will switch to docbear this evening, who has seemingly given up and stopped participating (not that her participation was great to begin with). But yes, her wagon feels too much like 'low hanging fruit' as someone else said.

Bye for now. Have to run.
Posted June 22, 2017
Current votes:
docbear1975 - yogsloth; dedoporno; bler144; Bookwyrm627
HijacK - Lifthrasil; flubbucket; trentonlf
Lifthrasil - drealmer7; HijacK; cristigale

Not voting: JMich; HypersomniacLive; docbear1975; Sage103082

Majority has not been reached.

JMich has agreed to sub. Deadline is extended to Friday evening, but you don't have to let the deadline or substitution stop you...
Posted June 22, 2017
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Bookwyrm627: Hey Yog. Since it looks like Gamma is being replaced, who are your primary choices for targets tonight?
Oh, right. I forgot Yog also wanted that slot dead :D Is that a good question, though? Also, if Yog decides to not kill JMich doesn't the kill suddenly become a bad choice (or at least worse)?


Seeing that we have a pretty balanced spilt between in the vote I will have to go over Lift once again. I'm not sure if I'm fine switching but I guess it's a good idea to get a better opinion on that matter prior the deadline hits.


@flub, you seemed satisfied with Hijack's responses to your questioning, yet your vote is still set on him. Do you still not believe him?
Posted June 22, 2017
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dedoporno: Ah, OK, it wasn't anything new, people just decided to finally put that vote in. I wonder why it took so long.
I personally didn't want OMGUS, especially under fire. It just looks worse and takes credence out of it. It's how the game is played, thus I subscribe to it.

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dedoporno: How is that proving anything other than the claimed "false" flip?
I raised an eyebrow when I read that... I find it quite weird that you're trying to prove whether one of us flips mafia or not when we just told you that we will. There's either a bad mental process that went there, or he doesn't quite know how to say that he doesn't trust us, or me, more specifically.

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Lifthrasil: @HijacK: what about that claim?
Decided against it, mostly because people have inquired about it and I hinted heavily at it. If one didn't get it by now, I don't know if a full claim will truly assist one in better understanding the situation.

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Lifthrasil: Didn't make anything convincing up?
I don't need to make up anything, that's the thing. Dear Lift, unless you are able to refute my points and find a contradiction in them, I don't know if you indeed even know why you are voting.

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Lifthrasil: (perhaps because you are not sure yet, what exactly to claim)
Amusing. Is this bit supposed to taunt me? Just inquiring for better transparency.

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Lifthrasil: Two Death Millers are just too unlikely
I like how you know absolutely nothing of game mechanics outside of your role, but you're ready to judge the likelihood of them. As much as you would want to spin it this way, I do request that you answer about what you understand of the game mechanics that we don't, for you to make such a statement as the unlikelihood of multiple Death Millers.
If you have no explanation, then you are just making a Trumpian statement.
Posted June 22, 2017
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dedoporno: How is that proving anything other than the claimed "false" flip?
Edit to my previous post. I meant "he's trying to prove", not "you're trying to prove."
Posted June 22, 2017
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cristigale: It's D1 - how can you be 100% certain you're correct? If you're not certain, this type of thinking allows you to tunnel on someone for better or worse. It reminds me of your position on Dessi D1 in dedo's Tastes Like Chicken game (the tunnel part).

Refusing to look at another viewpoint when directly requested is a dangerous mindset for town to take. If town-trent is wrong, you do town no favors by taking this stance. If you're scum, this tactic just allows you to be lazy.

You may be right, HijacK may be scum selling one huge lie. If I had to call it right now, my guess is you are town. I don't expect you to change your read, but I do request you reconsider a stance that fosters tunnel vision.
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trentonlf: It's not tunnel vision, if I considered his claim even semi legitimate I wouldn't have voted him. Others believe him and want to give him leeway, that's their decision. My decision is not to believe him so I don't give him any leeway. I don't subscribe to the theory that just because some people believe someone else that I have to as well, if I played that way all I would be was a mindless drone. And yes I have considered others views, but I still don't believe hijack so that's why my vote is on him.
Whether you vote HijacK or think he is scum is not the point. It is about refusing to answer a question which asked you to examine the game from another point of view. And honestly, I don't think the answer to the actual question in this case really matters now. It's more of mindset. "I won't answer your question because I think your scum" is a cop out that promotes tunneling. If shuts down communication.

If a debate has carried on a long time or there is evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt, then choosing not to answer a question may be appropriate. That's not the situation here.
Posted June 22, 2017
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trentonlf: It's not tunnel vision, if I considered his claim even semi legitimate I wouldn't have voted him. Others believe him and want to give him leeway, that's their decision. My decision is not to believe him so I don't give him any leeway. I don't subscribe to the theory that just because some people believe someone else that I have to as well, if I played that way all I would be was a mindless drone. And yes I have considered others views, but I still don't believe hijack so that's why my vote is on him.
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cristigale: Whether you vote HijacK or think he is scum is not the point. It is about refusing to answer a question which asked you to examine the game from another point of view. And honestly, I don't think the answer to the actual question in this case really matters now. It's more of mindset. "I won't answer your question because I think your scum" is a cop out that promotes tunneling. If shuts down communication.

If a debate has carried on a long time or there is evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt, then choosing not to answer a question may be appropriate. That's not the situation here.
I answered the question, he didn't like my answer. Plus why would I even discuss what I would do with a specific role on Day 1, I would do what I always do on Day 1 and not discuss it at all. Role or PM discussion does not benefit town as much as it does scum, especially Day 1. If I had my way about it then it would be instant death to anyone that did on Day 1 (after Day 1 it's inevitable for role discussion to happen at some point)
Posted June 22, 2017
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trentonlf: I answered the question, he didn't like my answer.
Link, please. All I see is "I don't believe you, so I won't answer"

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trentonlf: Plus why would I even discuss what I would do with a specific role on Day 1, I would do what I always do on Day 1 and not discuss it at all.
This is a faulty way to look at things and this type of conservatism promotes stale plays in light of different mechanics that can have better outcomes if acted upon them differently.

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trentonlf: Role or PM discussion does not benefit town as much as it does scum, especially Day 1.
I am of belief that you have imposed this mentality upon yourself just because you do not want to have the fantasy of "detective work" taken out of equation when playing forum mafia game. It's a fine reason, do not misunderstand me here, I get it, but don't get drunk on cold water.

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trentonlf: If I had my way about it then it would be instant death to anyone that did on Day 1 (after Day 1 it's inevitable for role discussion to happen at some point)
Once again, if you're so fine with Yogy claiming, then what's the problem with me seeing as we have this issue that pertains to both of us? Sounds like a double standard to me and a lack of critical thinking.

I, once again, humbly ask you to answer my question, dear trent.

You are me. You have my role. Yogy claims. You didn't want to claim, but at any later point it will be worse. What do you do? Do you wait? And if yes, until when?
Posted June 22, 2017
I see that JMich is subbing in, and that deadline was moved by 24hrs - @mod, is my 24hrs take correct?

Fine with me, more so as I woke up this morning realising that I went through the entire day yesterday thinking it's still Tuesday.


Off to see what the latest posts added to the game are about.
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Community
General discussionForum Mafia #49 - Retirement isn't so Peaceful(1018 posts)(1018 posts)
(1018 posts)