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General discussionForum Mafia #49 - Retirement isn't so Peaceful(1018 posts)(1018 posts)
(1018 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 21, 2017
unvote:dreamler


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yogsloth: @Hijack - I honestly would not have made that claim if Town. Because it's just too hard to believe and by being the second one in the pool it's too easy to fake as scum. So strange. Wifom I guess because it's suicide as either alignment.
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HijacK: As town I wouldn't have made your claim. Perhaps there may be a difference of credence, but in my position I did not have any faith someone wouldn't have just jumped on that policy lynch excuse to form a wagon and lynch me. It would have flipped Mafia and in everyone's mind it was either true, but bonus points for taking out the role that murks the water, or false and good job they got a mafia. I didn't think anything good would have come from it. But players see you differently, you have a different kind of allure than I do. It's not just about demeanor and play, it's the overall communication and individualism that separates us and how responsive people are, combined with different histories of experiences both in game and outside the game. I simply wasn't confident in claiming Day 1, and you kind of forced me.
Think of it this way, you are me. Yogsloth just claimed something that is overly similar to you. At least the sucky part of the role, the Miller one. You say you wouldn't have claimed, but then when would you have claimed? Any time later and the credence drops more and more, which makes you look worse and worse, especially if town. Would you just hold it as a secret? And for how long?
Help me understand this.

If..........you were town you would not have made the claim yogsloth did.

But since you claim to be town you are making a similar claim as yogsloth did.

I understand the difference between players and credence and such. I just can't see this as anything other than glomming onto a perceived town role claim......all "forcing" aside.


Vote: HijacK
Posted June 21, 2017
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flubbucket: If..........you were town you would not have made the claim yogsloth did.
Ha. This is a nice catch. I read that and didn't even register the wording up until now. Concerning things are stacking up to an unpleasant levels. I'm starting to reconsider my choices.
Posted June 21, 2017
17 posts in the ~8 hr block that I'm around.
57 posts after I leave.

Apparently yes, I really do need to just AFK to make the game active. No wonder last game was so quiet so often.

I've got a deadline. I'll catch up and respond hopefully this afternoon, or else this evening. Assuming the thread doesn't just straight up explode with activity in the mean time. -.-
Posted June 21, 2017
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HijacK: drealmer ... I do find him suspicious for the way he reacts to the questioning. It's not the defensiveness. But the lack of pointing at any others besides Lift...
just because I don't overly vocalize or express suspicions doesn't mean I don't have them

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HijacK: No stance on the current lurkers: cristi and booksie.

Flub leans town.
Yogs leans town.
Trent is neutral to slightly town
Sage is neutral to slightly town.
You are leaning slightly town based on post comp, but that's just a feeling, obviously.
The rest are pure neutrals.
I find this ^ readlist very interesting and odd. Not sure how to articulate. It's like he's picking every person I don't have ANY read on. Seems weird I dunno. Plus, I don't care who you think is more likely town. I want to know who you think is more likely scum. little pings here

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yogsloth: [...] Can you elaborate on your read of how that game compares to this one?
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HypersomniacLive: So, back to this.

In game #46, Lifthrasil kept going back and forth with his read on drealmer7 all game long in a manner that felt to me early on as him testing the waters to see how easily and quickly he could get drealmer7 mislynched. He made sure that we don't forget about drealmer7 and his anti-town play-style, and used every opportunity to point a FoS at drealmer7, with arguments targeting drealmer7's play-style and personality aspects spilling into it and the game. That, of course, got drealmer7 to react accordingly, making things more personal, and allowing scum-Lifthrasil to keep the constant distraction alive. drealmer7 eventually stopped engaging anyone in the game, but that didn't stop Lifthrasil, it just made it a tad harder for him.
thank you for this - I seriously didn't know wtf else to do. It happens on MS too. In not nearly as a friendly of environment. I'm handling it soooo much better these past couple weeks for the most part though, now that life has started to balance a bit more (not there yet though, as you can see.)

I feel like part of the problem (with how I play and things that happen/happened) is that I get frustrated that no one listens to me but don't know how to make my cases persuasive enough that anyone ever listens to me. I truly think that if people listened to what I'm saying more often, we'd mislynch less / win more. But I suppose it is possible everyone feels that way.

posting this in an individual post before posting more, but probably won't make another post for some hours

errm, did I just see that trent voted himself? damn...I gotta catch up...oh and it is probably the responible thing to do to just not be voting atm since I'm so behind and apparently things have happened...

unvote lifthrasil
Posted June 21, 2017
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Bookwyrm627: ...
Seems like your theory that in your absence the posts roll in en masse was wrong. 4 hours and just one post. But it's nice to see that drealmer is slowly catching up to the rest of us.

But I don't like your random vote. I know that this Day is a mess. But try to give a vote with some thought behind it. Random is not helpful, I think.

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trentonlf: I see how this will go, and I don't like it at all. So I'll just say Hijack is absolutely right and the only think that can be done is lynching me and if that seems to not be happening then please dear God someone kill me tonight because I want no part of where this is going.

Unvote Hijack
Vote trentonlf
Same goes to you, trent. Please don't do that. Yes, it is frustrating at the moment, but to stop playing and saying 'I want no part in this' is not fair to the others. If you really want out, ask for replacement. But if you want to keep playing, make a serious vote.
Posted June 21, 2017
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Lifthrasil: Yes, of course you will say that.
It's not my fault you formulate things in a problematic way. That's yours, esteemed sir. It comes down to you to solve it.

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flubbucket: Help me understand this.
Sure thing, sir. You look like you could need some help.

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flubbucket: If..........you were town you would not have made the claim yogsloth did.
Timing. I wouldn't have made the claim when he did it, more or less the way he did it. I would have used a different tone. Timing is the key. Don't get hung on one word, the rest might not make sense anymore.

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flubbucket: But since you claim to be town you are making a similar claim as yogsloth did.
Yes, because at any later time it would have looked 10 times as worse. I think the whole point of having two millers is that the waters dictate a second claim will be less believable. And the more you stall, the worse it gets. I would have preferred not to claim Day 1.

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flubbucket: I understand the difference between players and credence and such. I just can't see this as anything other than glomming onto a perceived town role claim......all "forcing" aside.
Explain this, please. I do not understand a thing of what you're saying. What exactly is making this incredulous to you? And here's another question that apparently most players are not fit to respond to. You are me, you have my role. Yogsloth claims. What do you do?
Posted June 21, 2017
Current votes:
docbear1975 - yogsloth; dedoporno; bler144
GammaEmerald - Bookwyrm627
HijacK - Lifthrasil; flubbucket
trentonlf - trentonlf

Not voting: GammaEmerald; HypersomniacLive; HijacK; docbear1975; Sage103082; cristigale; drealmer7

Majority has not been reached.

Deadline is still scheduled for late Thursday night Eastern Daylight Time...
Posted June 21, 2017
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Sage103082: Maybe im reading your post wrong Hyper but I take it you are not seeing what Hijack is pointing out and Lift is seeing too.
To me drealmer question: are him and gamma ever going to be scum together again? AGAIN- as they have been.
Later drealmer states he has never been scum at the game time/together with gamma. NEVER- so again is impossible.

So which of these is correct? because they counter themselves.
omfg are you kidding me? I'm going to address this one more time and then I'm going to stop repeating myself. I swear. read the GD sentence, sage. it's asking: is HE going to be scum (he is the subject of the sentence) in a game (the object of the sentece) with me (modifier to 'in a game') - but if you are still harpingon this at this point why the fuck don't you just vote me if you absolutely think it is a slip? bigger pings for sage now

I agree with yogsloth's case on docbear that it is likely scum, but I'm not sold especially after docbear's response 1 post after, which I liked and sounds quite genuine

at this point I am not comfortable voting doc as others seem to be (as in at this ^^^ point, still not caught up and I checked and saw RW's latest VC.) *refresh before posting*

oh look, an even more latest RW VC - cool - hmmm, has gamma been posting at all? if not he should probably just be replaced and is even possible he is sweating that he can't get in contact to ask to be in a timely manner - don't hold me to that though!
Posted June 21, 2017
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drealmer7: just because I don't overly vocalize or express suspicions doesn't mean I don't have them
Ah, but you used to, sir. The tunnel visioning is what got to me. :)

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drealmer7: I find this ^ readlist very interesting and odd. Not sure how to articulate. It's like he's picking every person I don't have ANY read on. Seems weird I dunno. Plus, I don't care who you think is more likely town. I want to know who you think is more likely scum. little pings here
Don't destroy my opinion of you like this. I thought you more capable than this. My list doesn't revolve around you, nor does the game revolve around you, so take it as it is. This is a friendly reminder that the world in general does not revolve around a single being.
Posted June 21, 2017
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HijacK: Don't destroy my opinion of you like this. I thought you more capable than this. My list doesn't revolve around you, nor does the game revolve around you, so take it as it is. This is a friendly reminder that the world in general does not revolve around a single being.
it's not about me / I didn't mean to make it about me at least - the focus should be that I don't see any foundation for forming those reads at all - the only one that makes sense (of course "to me", just sharing my opinion afterall) is the no readon cristi and wyrm - though I do find wyrm's absence more notable than cristi's simply based on 'given reasons for being absent' and typical playstyle (again, which isn't a be all, just something to keep in mind)

errrg

*stops getting distracted from catchup*
Posted June 21, 2017
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HijacK: No stance on the current lurkers: cristi and booksie.

Flub leans town.
Yogs leans town.
Trent is neutral to slightly town
Sage is neutral to slightly town.
You are leaning slightly town based on post comp, but that's just a feeling, obviously.
The rest are pure neutrals.
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drealmer7: I find this ^ readlist very interesting and odd. Not sure how to articulate. It's like he's picking every person I don't have ANY read on. Seems weird I dunno. Plus, I don't care who you think is more likely town. I want to know who you think is more likely scum. little pings here
wait, you have come out and said I have pinged you at least twice and if I remember correctly one of them was a big ping so how can you say that his list is him picking people you do not have ANY <--- you even all caps it not me-- read on.

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HijacK: Yes, because at any later time it would have looked 10 times as worse. I think the whole point of having two millers is that the waters dictate a second claim will be less believable. And the more you stall, the worse it gets. I would have preferred not to claim Day 1.
If you would of preferred not to claim day one why did you? Other then to make your case stronger. As in cover your own butt. If you were town and you didnt want to claim because it would be harmful you would not have, you could of sat back and tried to help with your role and whatever comes along with it. Used your role to try to win the game instead you are only looking at how claiming will effect you and souly (how is that not a flippin word) you.

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drealmer7: DUDE IF YOU WEREN'T FREAKEN MIA AND BRINGING THIS BACK UP LIKE IM TALKING ABOUT IT IN THE RIGHT NOW. I HAVE NOT MENTIONED IT LATELY IT GOT BEAT TO DEATH WE ALL TALKED AND MOVED ON SORRY YOU DIDNT HAVE TIME FOR THE GAME TO BE AROUND FOR THAT DISSUCSSION..
Posted June 21, 2017
Thank you to everyone else for not joining in on the role claiming, and speaking of that let's just move away from the subject of roles as much as possible.

As it stands for me right now I still don't buy Hijack's claim, he can try to make it smell as fresh as much as he likes but it still stinks to me.

Unvote trentonlf
Vote Hijack
Posted June 21, 2017
- it might go without saying but I'm loving what HSL is doing with lift in post 223 - I know, old knews, but not to be forgotten /disregarded so am noting it - especially the "As for being quite sure he meant it in the non-incriminating way, well, as odd as it may sound to you, I just don't think that he'd be dumb enough to incriminate himself that way if he's scum, and on D1 of all Days. " - seriously - shit this just made me get a little worried of getting NKed actually - eeep, haven't had that fear in quite a while! how interesting feeling!

also specifically noting this reply to trent: "If you didn't miss his post, why didn't you reply to him? Does the lack of a reply mean that you don't believe him, and still think that it was a genuine scum-slip? " - clearly so, HSL, since he is still voting me at this point

- I know, more old news, too bad, it's what you get and I think it is important. I'll be caught up before deadline and my views will be made to be relevant to the current gamestate, don't worry

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bler144: Care to elaborate? We've seen "female dog/perhaps I am as such" here enough times, I'm a bit skeptical he has a tell to a surface question like "are you scum?" that will give him away.
What in the HOW would have been telling, exactly?
Impossible to without an actual response, really, it's all be presumption, you can go look at previous games he and I have been in together (just pick any game of either alignment that I am that you want to see and check the OP of that game to see if gamma is in it, it is likely he is) - if I can say anything about it it'd be that it'd be a tone read and not at all likely to be something that'd have me 100% either way as to his alignment, just a starting point of interaction to see what I get. It's unfortunate that whatever has prevented him from being more involved in the game. I was looking forward to playing with him on here and that post is really just indicative of that, but some are seeing it as LAMIST. My enthusiasm for certain things tends to get viewed as LAMIST pretty often, and it's not really something that is AI for me either way.

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Bookwyrm627: So, 3.5 hours later: Unvote Bookwyrm.

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HypersomniacLive: And drealmer7 (jokingly?) day-vigged him, but in a format that wouldn't count anyway.
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Bookwyrm627: I started catching up from the beginning, since I was barely into Page 4 anyway. Did anyone else notice this? HSL, what IS the proper format for a Dayvig?
well now that you bring it up, yes, without question, immediately - I however didn't find it appropriate to comment on. Interesting that you did, though. Clearly, if there is a format, it was wrong, at least we know that much at this point, eh???

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Bookwyrm627: Drealmer, what is your opinion of Gamma's play so far?
MAHAHA, I laughed! If it is not clear (posted in a previous post I made today) my position it is likely fine to replace him at this point if he hasn't said otherwise (clearly not fully caught up as per typing this so don't know if maybe he did say either way I just see the VC reflecting his position there / that he hasn't been replaced yet.)

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bler144: ...
Hi Sage, have you met Drealmer? He's this guy who started playing around the time you left who gets really defensive and accuses everyone of being scum out to get him in a way that tends to hasten his lynch.
we have met, actually! we live pretty close to each other now, pretty groovy

bler keeps making me laugh in his posts

- just did a refresh on page 9 and saw sage's post to me about the 'slip' stuff being old news and me not being around for when it all petered out - noted and of course I recognize that, I'm doing my best, just feel it is important to post the thoughts I have when reading the post when it was made - and of course it should all be tempered with current relevance of things. *passes sage the bong too*

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RWarehall: Note: After reviewing Drealmer's daykill post, I would deem that in a correct enough format, I'm not playing grammar police. Since nothing happened, I'll confirm Drealmer did not have a daykill power available at that moment. With a public ability such as that, it would be clear if it was used and defended against in some way.
oh ok, well then, STRIKE MY PREVIOUS COMMENT ABOUT IT *cough* - thanks mod for confirming lack of my dayvig *cry*

woo, more catching up, this game is certainly shaping up well so far
Posted June 21, 2017
It looks like I'm just going to be able to pop in here once a day.

So, we have two millers now? Why in the world would there be two? I'm wary of yog's claim, and I'm pretty sure I don't buy Hijack's claim. Could it be a counter claim?

This is where I"m going to probably get into even more trouble. I'm not sure I accept either of these claims. Why should I accept that yogs or hijack are telling the truth? My instincts tell me differently.
Posted June 21, 2017
@bler144 - moving on, we're good.


The increasing number of people stating to be unaware (and surprised) that we don't get role flips (bearing any role/ability, capable of changing this, that may or may not be in play) is starting to be rather alarming for my liking.

Regarding the GammaEmerald situation, cristigale's post #326 really puts him in a very bad light, mostly at the level of demonstrating total disrespect for the mod and the other players. Even if he was overwhelmed by his PM as bler144 suggested in his post #315 (though IIRC, he was pretty hyped about a role-madness game), the simplest thing he could have done, is ask to be replaced.

But RWarehall stated in his post #337 that he'll take care of him at the start of D2, and if he does it in the order he stated, perhaps it's better to get his replacement in than wiping him from the game? yogsloth stated his intent to go for him during N1, whatever alignment his killing ability is, so continuing from the above, I'm not sure about this, since GammaEmerald's alignment flip at this point doesn't really do anything in regards to yogsloth's one. JMO, as it's not my decision to make.

Either way, I'm with bler144 (post #380) that lynching GammaEmerald seems like a waste since it looks quite unlikely he makes a show to have anything to work with besides the posts he's made so far.
Which makes Bookwyrm627's vote quite curious given that it came after the above. Also, not sure what to make of his preface about it being the result of RNG.

Regarding docbear1975, I went through her posts in drealmer7's game, and they gave me a different feel than the one I'm getting from her posts this game. I can see the change in tone being intimidated and overcautious town-her after that experience, and it could also explain her comment to me about getting in trouble over setup speculation, even though I didn't ask/prompt her to engage in that, and perhaps bler144 questioning her about leaving out "the third-party possibility" got her to withdraw even more.

But tone aside, she doesn't seem engaged and trying to solve the game, and I can't rule out that scum-her was advised in scum-chat during Twilight to bring up her previous town-games and the unfortunate end they had for her as an explanation for the change in behaviour.

Lifthrasil mentioned she may be a lonely third-party, and this thought has crossed my mind too. Could explain some things, both tone and content wise, especially for a quite new player like she is.

I could see town-her trying to protect whatever role she has, but being so totally resigned, and ready to throw it away, makes me scratch my head. I'd expect a townie to self-preserve when being a lynch candidate, if for no other reason than the only person they can be 100% certain is town is themself, more so during D1.

Still rather undecided, and would really like to see more of her post #339 variety.

Speaking of which:

.
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docbear1975: [...]I wouldn’t say I was ignoring the votes you and Yogs placed on me. I’m just not going to argue or defend my way out of them. I’m not going to make any excuses for my absence or lack of posts. Yogs feels he has laid out a case against me, and honestly my actions (or lack of action) hasn’t really done anything to refute it. [...]
I'm not asking you to make excuses, which probably wouldn't help, anyway. But defending yourself and addressing the arguments made against you is something I'd like to see. I'd also like to see what you have to offer in terms of solving the game; popping in, throwing a one-line take on something, and promptly vanishing, doesn't really do it for me.


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docbear1975: [...] Do I still think Drealmer and/or Lift are scum? Yes. Which one, well, at this point it’s a toss-up with a slight lean toward Drealmer. [...]
What about drealmer7 specifically makes you lean towards him, if ever so slightly?


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docbear1975: [...]I do find your theory that Lift and I are scumbuddies rather interesting.[...]
That was actually me. Why and in what way do you find it rather interesting?


And upon refresh, there's another post from her. I wish her arguments were more fleshed out. As it is, it may be that she's afraid of saying the wrong things, as Bookwyrm627 suggested, I just can't tell the sort of "wrong" things it may be alignment-wise she fears of saying. .

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docbear1975: [...] So, we have two millers now? Why in the world would there be two? I'm wary of yog's claim, and I'm pretty sure I don't buy Hijack's claim. Could it be a counter claim? [...]
Why do you entertain the thought it could be a counter-claim? Do you see anything in his posts to indicate so? I mean, you just said you don't buy his claim, so...?


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docbear1975: [...] Why should I accept that yogs or hijack are telling the truth? My instincts tell me differently.
Just instincts? Nothing you could point to in their posts?
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionForum Mafia #49 - Retirement isn't so Peaceful(1018 posts)(1018 posts)
(1018 posts)