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General discussionForum Mafia #49 - Retirement isn't so Peaceful(1018 posts)(1018 posts)
(1018 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 20, 2017
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yogsloth: Really wish I was on comp so could better answer hsl.

...ability, big shot not tied to lurkers, I am tying it to lurkers. Coincidence not lost on me though that I finally get an ability to do what I always dreamed

...role name, what a dumb couple of questions. I don't know the difference between role and role name, and I don't know what flips we get. Is that in the op?

Side note, bad time to admit I didn't really read the op?
No, it's always a good time to admit not reading the OP, or other relevant to the subject at hand posts in the game-thread, no matter when.

Sorry you think that questioning you is a dumb thing to do.



Regarding docbear1975, her first post after yogsloth made the case on her, was a bit of let down, especially after her statement about the interesting points she had. I assume that she attempted to reply to bler144 in her post #265, but for whatever reason failed. I'll give her a ping in hope that she revisits it:

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docbear1975: ~ messed up quote ~
Could you give this another shot? And answer any and all other questions you were asked?

She sounds awfully resigned to her fate in her post #269 . Only reason I can think for scum-docbear1975 to go this route is for her to be convinced that she's toast for certain, so best go through with it now that there are no visible connections to her scum-buddies. Which would mean that they can pretty easily bus her without drawing attention.

bler144 commented on the case of it being a town-docbear1975 wagon, and he's quite right. I'll ask what do we get if it's a scum-docbear1975 wagon.

I hope she talks and interacts more during the next day or two, so I can get a better feel.
Posted June 20, 2017
I just got back from dinner.

Shitshow is the understatement.

I'm going to reread this and see if something gels in my brain.
Posted June 20, 2017
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flubbucket: And if you're dead tomorrow.....what are we to do about/with the alleged revelation??
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dedoporno: If I'm dead what I had in mind back then would have died with me most likely. The question was whether or not that was the lesser evil.

Do you like seafood? Since you seem like you're trying to fish for something.
You brought it up....not me.


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yogsloth: ....................

...role name, what a dumb couple of questions. I don't know the difference between role and role name, and I don't know what flips we get. Is that in the op?
.....................
Miller is a common though not often used role. The shot is apparently a bonus gimped or not.

It is best claimed early much like PGO. I'm guessing RWarehall decided to build WIFOM into the game.
Posted June 20, 2017
Okay, there's no one here but HypersomniacLive and me.

Go to bed HypersomniacLive. I'm going to play private server WoW with my son.
Posted June 20, 2017
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Bookwyrm627: [...] I started catching up from the beginning, since I was barely into Page 4 anyway. Did anyone else notice this? HSL, what IS the proper format for a Dayvig? [...]
At the time I made that comment, I was operating under the impression that the usual voting/action formats apply, so thought that drealmer7's one didn't abide to them, hence wouldn't count. Later in the game, I noticed lthat RWarehall seemed to count just about anything so long as it looks like a vote/action made in English, like Sage103082 unvote of yogsloth (post #64), and has now clarified on the matter, so my impression was obviously wrong. He then confused me again by not counting your unvote of flubbucket, your self-vote and unvote, but that turned out to be him simply having missed them.

TL;DR - turns out my initial assumption was wrong (and yes, I know what they say about assumptions), so will refrain from making any such comments again.


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Bookwyrm627: [...] Someone get this man a link!

Inspector Clouseau was a character in the Pink Panther (one of them, at least; I've only seen one). [...]
I know who Inspector Clouseau is, I just didn't understand what you meant there. Still not sure - were you referring to yourself?


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Bookwyrm627: [...] Now that is an interesting statement. [...]
Interesting how, and why?


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Bookwyrm627: [...] You seem bound and determined to make me eat my words about your interpretations. You've already seasoned them nicely, so why don't I go ahead and do that now? *om nom nom* [...]
Well, can't help it if others want to end my lonely days on your list. But I hope that you've not ate them all yet, I might have another case for you, and this time, it even involves native English speakers. You'll have to be a bit patient though, as I don't see me getting to it tonight either; already pretty late, and eyes have started getting quite heavy.


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Bookwyrm627: [...] One of the popular scum powers is Godfather, and this is role madness. [...]
I know, right? Except that it doesn't apply to me. But let's say for argument's sake that I am Godfather. I read town if investigated, but given that it's role-madness, does it really clear me? And what does that mean for drealmer7 given everything that has transpired so far? What does town do then regarding him?


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Bookwyrm627: [...]. Except for that bit about "oh, she showed up right after someone went for her"; that particular reason against her is a load of bollocks as far as I'm concerned. [...]
[emphasis added]

Please clarify, does the latter of the parts I've highlighted refer to the former one? If so, why exactly? If not, what does it refer to?


And on a side note - what does PPE stand for?



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flubbucket: I know town-HypersomniacLive and scum-HypersomniacLive are both very clever.[...]
Because, in general, an intelligent person may actually become dumb the moment they roll scum, eh?


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flubbucket: [...] I'm kinda hoping I don't get killed tonight.
If you think it likely you may be a N1 NK target, how about you respond to my my poking you with the sharp end of the stick?


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flubbucket: I have no idea why dreamler calls people names. [...]
Your post #148 begs to differ [emphasis added]:

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flubbucket: [...] Calling Lifthrasil "over-zealous scum" for simply pressuring you is all I need for now.

Vote: dreamler7
Which isn't true. I pointed this out, and so did bler144 in his post #229. Yet here you are trying to brush it off with a joke.


And that's all from me for tonight. Will do my best to get fully up to date tomorrow, but it won't be before my late evening.
Posted June 20, 2017
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HypersomniacLive: ............

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flubbucket: Staaahp
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HypersomniacLive: *pokes with the sharp end of the stick*

That's all very nice, but how about sharing your thoughts/observations/reads, and contribute to solving the game?

..............
Okay.

Just trying to maintain my Day One uselessness rep.
Posted June 20, 2017
Last night was frustrating - seriously, how do people play like that just trying to catch up constantly? - so I will 100% confess that I read parts of the thread over lunch on my work computer.

So if I don't seem surprised by yogsloth's reveal, that's certainly part of it. Though my immediate reaction is to think it's likely 90% true.

Won't be fully here for about an hour (cook/eat/skype in some order), but will start digging away.

Having finally had some time to analyze/synthesize a bit I realize that regardless of what I might prefer to do, the tactical move here is to

Vote Docbear.

I'll plagiarize yogsloth and see if anyone can guess why that is - two primary reasons, one secondary reason.
Posted June 20, 2017
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HypersomniacLive: At the time I made that comment, I was operating under the impression that the usual voting/action formats apply, so thought that drealmer7's one didn't abide to them
I looked at his formatting 3 or 4 times trying to see what might be wrong with it (assuming he actually had the power). It is bolded, clearly indicates the action, and clearly indicates the target name. If it said "Vote", I'd have expected it to be accepted as a vote. I really couldn't see anything likely to be wrong with it on a technical level.

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HypersomniacLive: I know who Inspector Clouseau is, I just didn't understand what you meant there. Still not sure - were you referring to yourself?
I was referring to Yog "Of course I speak Chinese" sloth.

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Bookwyrm627: [...] Now that is an interesting statement. [...]
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HypersomniacLive: Interesting how, and why?
There was some hint of knowledge about something that town!you shouldn't know in most circumstances. Namely, how would you know that Yog is going to be disappointed about Bler's alignment (i.e. that Bler is not mafia)?

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HypersomniacLive: Well, can't help it if others want to end my lonely days on your list. But I hope that you've not ate them all yet, I might have another case for you, and this time, it even involves native English speakers. You'll have to be a bit patient though, as I don't see me getting to it tonight either; already pretty late, and eyes have started getting quite heavy.
If the food is good, I'll keep eating. Until I get overfull, anyway.

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HypersomniacLive: I know, right? Except that it doesn't apply to me. But let's say for argument's sake that I am Godfather. I read town if investigated, but given that it's role-madness, does it really clear me? And what does that mean for drealmer7 given everything that has transpired so far? What does town do then regarding him?
I was commenting on Bler's statement that scum!you wouldn't want to draw an investigation by pointing out one circumstance where scum!you might indeed want to draw an investigation. The rest of his statement there, such as you drawing Lift's attention, was beyond the scope of my example.

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Bookwyrm627: [...]. Except for that bit about "oh, she showed up right after someone went for her"; that particular reason against her is a load of bollocks as far as I'm concerned. [...]
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HypersomniacLive: [emphasis added]

Please clarify, does the latter of the parts I've highlighted refer to the former one? If so, why exactly? If not, what does it refer to?
I shall rephrase:

The reason "oh, she showed up right after someone went for her" is a load of bollocks. Such a reason for someone being scum isn't worth the paper it was typed on. Other reasons are more legit, but not that particular one.

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HypersomniacLive: And on a side note - what does PPE stand for?
Pre Post Edit
Posted June 20, 2017
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HypersomniacLive: Interesting how, and why?
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Bookwyrm627: There was some hint of knowledge about something that town!you shouldn't know in most circumstances. Namely, how would you know that Yog is going to be disappointed about Bler's alignment (i.e. that Bler is not mafia)?
So logically, in this scenario you're proposing HSL is scum and I'm town, else yogs wouldn't be disappointed. So me defending HSL here does not suggest he slipped and we're buddies, at least by the internal logic of the construct.

The problem with your statement is he said "I think" and not "I know" as you're saying here. I don't know about you, but I think all sorts of shit, and some of it is true and some isn't.

I've found a few minor things curious, but this seemed very clearly a statement of how he was reading me, not that he was scum slipping that he knew for sure. Seems awfully thin for this amount of shade, in any case.
Posted June 20, 2017
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HypersomniacLive: And now that I mentioned docbear1975, it's interesting that post #98 is your only interaction with her. A player that has been floating and has been poked for it, yet somehow never got your attention, even though you have a couple of certain pet peeves. The player that yogsloth made a pretty good case against, something that seems to be of no interest to you.

Having ISO-ed you a couple of times and noticed that post #98 is your only interaction with her; I looked for your reaction to yogsloth's vote and case, you didn't disappoint.
So, hearkening back to yesterday...my kneejerk reaction was to agree with this, in part b/c Lift is fairly high on my curious list as well. So I kinda glossed over it.

But the implication is Doc/Lift buddies. Does buddy Doc try and save herself by spinning into Lift/Drealmer D1 showdown?

I mean, maybe. But for one it's not really a solid push away from herself to begin with, but a 50/50 draw on a teammate ...doesn't buy her much even if it works.

Esp. now that we know yogs will probably shoot her N1 anyway if she's not the lynch. ;) Though certainly !scum-Doc wouldn't have known that at the time.

And from prior experience, I will say in Lift's defense, it is somewhat hard to interact with someone who has 8 posts. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that I'm at least sliiightly skeptical it's quite this easy.
Posted June 20, 2017
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yogsloth: Wesley joke unrelated. Reference to The Princess Bride. Role was probably on my mind when making it though.
I thought the Wesley reference was clever.

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yogsloth: Although my PM doesn’t actually use the word anywhere, I am a Miller. More specifically, I am a “Death Miller” as defined by the . I won&rsquo;t bother telling you my personal opinion of this&hellip; situation. <a href="http://www.gog.com/forum/general/forum_mafia_49_retirement_isnt_so_peaceful/post272" class="link_arrow"></a></div><div class="small_avatar_2_h"><img src="//images.gog.com/7cd65cf9625ed00d1b83397973b5990abdec003396127118f38be2909b960c5d_avm.jpg" width="16" height="16" alt="avatar" /></div><span class="quot_text"><span class="quot_user_name">Sage103082: </span></span>Wiki says its normally not used unless a bastard game. <a href="http://www.gog.com/forum/general/forum_mafia_49_retirement_isnt_so_peaceful/post299" class="link_arrow"></a></div> Knowing that RWarehall spent some time on MU, I looked up [url=http://www.mafiauniverse.com/wiki/Death_Miller]their definition to see if it said anything different than mafia scum. There's not much there but here it is the main body;

"This variant is very controversial and considered bad design by most communities and game hosts, particularly so if the Death Miller is not self-aware. A version of this role, considered less bad, is one that will flip as Miller if killed during night (i.e. they only reveal as mafia-aligned if lynched)."

@yogs - any idea if this applies to your role? (the last sentence) Assuming that we have some way of eventually knowing roles for lynches and alighment/roles for NKs. If we don't, it's a moot point.


The way I see this, there is only three possibilities:
1. yogs is town
2. yogs is scum
3. yogs is some type of jester

I don't think anything else fits. Like, why would anyone do this as NS or SK?

So starting from the bottom, jester...could be, but does yogs go to all this trouble for that? I don't think it's all that necessary if yogs wants to get lynched. And if he is a jester, I'm not concerned (beyond the possible distraction), jesters in our games have not affected the win conditions of the remaining players. Does RW design a game that can end with a yogs lynch? I don't find it likely. Thoughts?

So then it's the wifom of: it is town-yogs or scum-yogs? Scum surely wouldn't do that, would they? So that is exactly something that yogs would do...except for in this case, I don't think I buy it. Maybe I'm being a sucker, but it doesn't feel like yogs is trying to sell us anything. I expect scum-yogs to feel more polished in his sell. This feels more awkward than what I expect from scum-yogs. You could argue he's banking on that. I'm not on that side of the argument at the moment.

Bookwyrm seems to be holding some info perhaps to the contrary, but right now, gun to my head, I go with town-yogs.

I'm not completely caught up, but the yogs claim caught my attention.
Posted June 20, 2017
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trentonlf: [...] It does raise my eyebrows that cristi and Hyper are making an issue of me not commenting on yog's when I haven't even been on to see the comment.[...]
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HypersomniacLive: Speaking only for myself, the lack of a comment from you stood out because your posts are back to back (#83 and #84). Admittedly, since I was not here at the time and GOG's timestamps are non-existent, I don't know how close to each other they were made, and if you were online when yogsloth made his. It's just that his post #84, tone-wise, seems to be in continuation to the exchanges the two of you just had at the time, so I assume(d) he made it right after, or (very?) shortly after your post #83.
Basically, what HSL said. I was phone posting, didn't check the times or who was online. At the time, it stood out.

I don't believe trent lies about this, regardless of alignment.
Posted June 20, 2017
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yogsloth: and flip “Mafia hitman”.
Oh wow, that makes the two of us! I'm glad I'm not the only one in this shit. Guess that makes the game more interesting.
I don't flip hitman upon investigation though. I flip Muscle. Long story short, I used to be in a biker gang. No more details past this point though.
Posted June 20, 2017
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flubbucket: I'm going to play private server WoW with my son.
What server, you old flabbergasted comrade?!?!

Let's raid together!
Posted June 20, 2017
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Lifthrasil: snip
Well, I've re-read this a few times., mostly b/c I think I like it (mostly tonally but also logical coherence with other things I recall you saying), even though I probably agree with 40%. ;)

Probably fair that I discounted the possibility you would view it as possibly buddy-defense, whether or not I think it's likely.

As for gamma, this is 100% arm-chair psychology, so worth about as much as your theory, but I have a hard time seeing it that way. He ended the last game saying our site was terrible and a bit miffed we lynched him. You think a brash teenager (IIRC from HSL's post-game question to him) in that scenario just ghosts instead of taking the opportunity to show us up by murderizing everyone?

As a practical matter I expect his ghosting is NAI, and a sign he just doesn't care to play here or has comp issues or whatever. Or perhaps more likely looked at his role-draw and said "What the holy **** is this?"

But if we are inclined to pull motive out of our collective butts, I'd say town/neutral>scum.

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HypersomniacLive: ..................

Also, did drealmer7 actually call Lifthrasil "over-zealous scum" for simply pressuring him? The way I read that part of drealmer7's post #146, he called Lifthrasil that for the bit he quoted from the latter's post #98.
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flubbucket: I have no idea why dreamler calls people names.

My days of PCP induced hallucination are over.
Man, flub is on fiiiiire with these jokes.

It's like he's an arsonist or something. Town arsonist, obviously.

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trentonlf: @bler, I have docbear middle of the road because she's has mostly flown under the radar and I have not noticed anything noteworthy from her.
So the fact that her posts largely repeated points already made (including one of your own) hadn't caught your attention?

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Lifthrasil: I seem to be in the wrong time zone for this game. When I'm here, there is hardly any activity. But each morning, there are lots of posts to catch up with! I think dedo, HSL and I are the only non US players around. I should look for a conference in the US I can fly to! :-D
Even in the U.S. I felt that way the first night, it was just me and Trent and...flub, maybe? Not really conducive to wide-ranging synchronous conversations.

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yogsloth: bler - why don't you agree with my case? It's a thin-on-the-ground, no-actions-yet Day 1 case. What's your take, then?

And why, knowing me, would you think I don't believe my own case?
Not an excuse, but that post was me completely brain-dead about 90 minutes after I should have signed off for the night just getting to the finish line and brain-dumping the few things bouncing around in my head.

Having re-read it again today over lunch, yeah, I'm not sure where I was getting that notion from exactly, though I certainly was thinking it at the time - that was not a typo or anything.

Let me ask a question, though - on the >rand issue, do you think there's any correlation to skill level, or is that independent of skill? I have no idea, so frankly you could tell me anything. And do you recall Drealmer's game where she was town doctor (very briefly)?

So I don't disagree with the facts of your case, I'm just leery we're really >rand here.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionForum Mafia #49 - Retirement isn't so Peaceful(1018 posts)(1018 posts)
(1018 posts)